Self Blame

[Hashi]

One thing to consider though is that being wronged often involves the perpetrator placing their own shame, blame and responsibility into us. In some ways I think that is the main gain/aim of abuse. We are the receptacles of their s*** that they want to get rid of.

Personally I find this the most important aspect, particularly with regard to rape, and couldn't relate to the article because it didn't even mention it. It confused me also because I think the perpetrator's aim is to transfer both shame and guilt.

Another thing I felt was that the article has a lot about the Just World idea which means having to blame the victim for the crime, but I think there's more to this than seemed to be said. I think the reason for needing to believe the world is just is about people's need to believe in their own safety. They need to believe they'll be safe if they do nothing "wrong". If the target of a crime wasn't safe, they need to make that the fault of the victim or they themselves would be equally vulnerable and they can't accept that. Maybe others saw that in the article, but I didn't.

I think that then relates to why we'd rather blame ourselves than someone else - we also need to believe the world is just and we're not so vulnerable that it happened through no fault of our own. And the whole thing about retraumatisation and damaged defences didn't seem to be covered and...

I got a bit lost with article, to be honest, and found it hard to read.

I think the question of blame versus responsibility is an important one, and what people have posted here is helpful - thank you for starting it, Meadowsweet.

 

[mamachick]

Hashi-I'm glad I'm not the only one that got a little lost in the article, lol. I liked the article and it made me think about things, but I found myself a little confused and expecting something further that I didn't find or get.

I think I have lived most of my life with the belief that the world is just for the most part. (does not mean I do not recognize and feel empathy for those who suffer.) That belief has served me in many ways. Do the right thing, be honest, treat others well, and it will come back to you. When bad things have happened regardless of my belief and positive behavior, I have seen it as a lesson to be learned and not a punishment or a personal defect. I have believed that there is a reason that may not be evident today but will be someday, and that has proven to be true for me. We grow during hard times. That is the old me beliefs, before ptsd.

Post ptsd-I have difficulty even understanding these concepts and this article, have to read parts over. I miss things sometimes. At the core, I feel defective and unlovable even by God.

I find myself taking the blame for things I have no control of. Aside from the event (such as rape) that involves a perp., how does this play out in everyday life? Because since my trauma, I blame myself for everything and take responsibility for all that goes wrong in everyday life.If a stranger came up and punched me in the nose, I would find a way to justify that he must have thought I was someone else, or thought I said something negative about him/her, etc. I feel crazy in this aspect. I feel shame at the core of myself. Sometimes when I feel this and try to understand what the shame is about and cant find it I am frustrated, it just exists. I think that may be what leads to doing or saying something that "should cause feelings of guilt", even if it is self destructive and not effecting another and nobody else know.

I'm a little confused on all of this right now.

 

[Abstract]

Without going back and rereading hence straining my brain :rolleyes: I saw them as saying quite definitely that the victim is innocent and that two main common reactions often ensue. One which is focused on actions (false guilt) and which is greatly damaging and founded in cognitive distortions etc and the other when the self is blamed (false shame) which is even more damaging and is linked to many problems and amongst those delays in healing.

I saw them as saying that concepts such as the Just World outlook greatly contribute to cognitive distortions and delays in healing.

Hashi I agree that they left some fundamental concepts out such as the placing of those feelings in us by the perpetrator. I think that is far more important (actually extremely important) and much stronger than things such as the Just World concept and agree that the Just World concept is usually a possible indication of other underlying things. I do think it's possible for it to be more straight forward (if someone was taught/brought-up to think this way before their trauma for example) but usually it again links back to wanting to gain some control or order and thereby feeling safer.

They may just not be going into the matter that deeply of course but in that case I think them leaving out the perpetrator stuff is still a big error.

I think the perpetrator's aim is to transfer both shame and guilt.

It is a bit confusing.

I did think the slightly different way they described the difference between false guilt and false shame and the consequences was interesting as was the slightly different discussion about the consequences. Every time a read a different way of describing the damage of shame I find it helpful and interesting. It wasn't in depth but I liked seeing the two responses side by side and the emphasis on how damaging shame is.

The brief mention of the effect of victim blaming and that fits in was good too.

. I have believed that there is a reason that may not be evident today but will be someday,

Bratt, personally I think this is more than Just World. Just World is when we get what we deserve rather than things happening for a reason.

I think looking at random trauma or experiences as just a part of the big picture of our journey in life (and what we need to overcome and learn from) can be a very helpful thing.