Service/Assistance or Emotional Support Animal Question

[joeylittle]

it essentially means that you yourself can decide whether or not you need a SD (talking SD here, not ESA = require prescription, less protections). It kinda requires a leap of faith that people don't abuse the system for their pet dog, as there is no official test, no official registry/certification, no official need for diagnosis.

exactly.

This is why most places where one:

• has a legal right to their service animal
• is regularly in attendance (work, school)

Will have some kind of paperwork for the person with the SD (or ESA, in the case of housing and planes) to fill out. That paperwork will often require a physician's support. It's more and more common to be asked to get your doctor to fill out some kind of form, which will include a narrative about your diagnosis - instead of just having a letter.

I think the best thing for the handler to strive for is a well-mannered, well-trained animal.

Are there two separate tags?

Just because I have an ESA - not a service dog - I can tell you that your dog's status as a service dog will be the only one that really matters. It will apply in all instances, whereas any emotional support your dog provides will only apply in a few instances.

Sometimes, you'll hear people referring to service dogs in terms of types of service - guide dog (for the blind), signal or hearing-aid dog (for hearing), mobility (for mobility), and psychiatric (for conditions like PTSD). But those designations aren't legal - they are to help when communicating about what your dog does without having to state your medical condition (if you are self-conscious about it, or simply want to keep it private).

I hope they aren't trying to charge you more money for an animal license that says 'service dog' - I don't think that would be legal. But every municipality (generally) requires that your animal be registered, vaccinated, etc - and @Freida is right, I think, that there's a chance you shouldn't have to pay for the license because your dog is a service dog. That might be a state-law thing.

 

[Sideways]

I hate egocentric people who ruin it for those who legitimately need SDs (and even ESAs).

This used to bug me.

But then, some people get themselves electric wheelchairs when they don’t really need them. A very small portion of people in electric wheelchairs are actually just lazy (met one - he’s an arse!).

Some people go out of their way to accommodate wheelchairs. Some people will jump up and shift chairs and tables when they see a wheelchair coming. Without stopping to ask “Is that wheelchair legit? Or are you just lazy? What’s your disability? What do you need the chair for? Do you know how to operate it properly?”

Are those people abusing others’ goodwill ‘ruining it’ for other people who legitimately need an electric wheelchair? Maybe. Probably not. Probably what they’re actually experiencing is just humanity.

Some people are just nice people and will help you out without asking. Some people are arses and exploit loopholes wherever they find them. That’s not unique to the service dog industry, it’s just what humanity is like.

When I came at it that way? It stopped bugging me. It doesn’t need to effect me. It says a whole lot about the arse abusing the law and goodwill of others, but if I tied myself in a knot over all the arse’s in the world, I’d never leave the house.

So I pay attention when people are helpful these days. I notice, and I make a point of saying thank you, when people make a point of making things easier for me and my dog. Instead of focusing on the arse’s of the world, I make a conscious decision to pay attention to the good eggs.

Without that attitude shift? Having a service dog would be a really really miserable experience.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I hope they aren't trying to charge you more money for an animal license that says 'service dog' - I don't think that would be legal.

No, it's not. Cali has a voluteer registeration but, again, volunteer. The registerations seen online are scams. Saying this without reading the thread however so not sure what circumstance this is in. But, I have read all state laws (in case we were to travel) and none have a required registeration because its not legal federally.

Sometimes, you'll hear people referring to service dogs in terms of types of service - guide dog (for the blind), signal or hearing-aid dog (for hearing), mobility (for mobility), and psychiatric (for conditions like PTSD). But those designations aren't legal - they are to help when communicating about what your dog does without having to state your medical condition (if you are self-conscious about it, or simply want to keep it private)

I just tend to say "medical alert". Telling the truth without revealing anything. But, yes, they are all just service dogs.

 

[Freida]

t kinda requires a leap of faith that people don't abuse the system for their pet dog, as there is no official test, no official registry/certification, no official need for diagnosis

yep -- the honor system. And thats why its a problem. Asshats out there who won't leave fifi home.

Neither ESA nor SD require tags?!

Nope. Service dogs don't even have to wear a vest. Though why you would take your dog into public without one is just asking for problems in my book. The only thing I can be required to have is his city license...the one everybody with a dog has to buy. I get that for free--again -- on the honor system.

I just tend to say "medical alert". Telling the truth without revealing anything.

exactly! Me too! And if they keep pushing I just change the subject. It was hard at first but now it's kind of funny
them ---What service does he provide?
me ===Hes an alert dog
them ===What is wrong with you?
me ---Gosh did you see the weather report today?
you can actually watch their brain cramp. :laugh:

one thing my trainer warned me about is how I would never go unnoticed again. People treat service dogs like they are unicorns and sadly mine is super fluffy so people ALWAYS notice us. That can get hard at times, but I've learned to just roll with it. Because he's worth it.

 

[Recovery4Me]

@Freida @joeylittle @lostforgottensoul @Sideways and all those whom contributed... my sincere thanks.

Several days ago, I was stressing to the point of nonfunctioning and confused as hades. To be honest, I was afraid I go into the gov agency and over-react which solves nothing. But you know that emotional place in one’s head, right before you stop-gap squashing theirs? Yeah. Thank goodness for this board and my T. Lol

Due to your support, I am picking up my dog tomorrow being able to embrace the future licensing event in full confidence and joy. I will read over this thread until I know it by rote and not be rattled nor a problem child to those employees. So my sincere thanks for such solid advice from your experience.

@Freida (& those whom have a dog) Do you use service clothing for your dogs? I got the drift from one of your post that it may be prudent. I hadn’t thought it out past the licensing.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

You will rarely see a real service dog in a grocery cart or in a retractable leash (unless handler is in a wheelchair

Ugh! Retractable leashes!

Do you use service clothing for your dogs? I got the drift from one of your post that it may be prudent. I hadn’t thought it out past the licensing.

If you mean service dog vests then yes. We have two. One "normal" one and one with way less material for hot summer days here in Florida.

BUT, there are no vest laws in America. You can work your service dog naked and its perfectly legal and past the 2 questions, business cannot deny access nor demand you vest your dog.

But vests make life (ETA: with public access, businesses, the public) easier so yes, we (me and Chopper) use them.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

them ---What service does he provide?
me ===Hes an alert dog
them ===What is wrong with you?
me ---Gosh did you see the weather report today?
you can actually watch their brain cramp.

Indeed.

What service does your dog provide?

He alerts to medical issues?

But, what does actually do.

He alerts to medical issues.

I mean, what does he actually do, physically.

He alerts to medical issues.

You can see the brain spinning and cramping before your eyes! Its sorta fun!

 

[Freida]

@lostforgottensoul :laugh:

There's a ton of places that sell vets and they range wildly in price. Make sure you get a patch that says Do Not Pet and has the words Service Dog on it. Again, not required but ya...you want one :)

 

[siniang]

Thank you guys for all these information! They provide a lot of clarity :)

@Sideways Very good points!

The thing with fake dogs vs. fake wheel chairs, though, is that they can cause actual harm both literally (to people and to your legitimate SD) and in the perception of people. At least where I live, people already have a great amount of prejudice against dogs as is. Fifi, who's peeing in a restaurant, barking at people, and just otherwise misbehaves will just petrify their prejudice. They will also start assuming that every SD/ESA is a fake and as a consequence, so is your disability. You'll really need a thick skin, not something that many people suffering from mental problems actually are good at ;)

I think this really is more a problem for "psychiatric" SDs rather than those for physical impairments, because the latter >usually< are more obvious.

@vests I know it's against privacy/ADA laws, but I somehow wish that IF you decide to buy a vest/identifcation, that THEN you'd have to provide some sort of "justification". I'm sure it'll shy away a lot of those who try to fake Fifi. I mean, there's still those websites who provide fake psychologist letters (for ESAs), but I think it puts at least one more emotional barrier to it (because then people have to actually ask someone to actually fake something).

I've seen pro's and con's against vests. It's obviously much easier re public access. On the other hand, it draws attention to you and your dog and your disability. The public still tends to be more empathetic to someone vision-impaired or in a wheelchair than someone with a mental disorder (yay, stigmas). I think it's a personal choice - and one you can actually make on a day-to-day basis :)

One more thing re vests that comes to mind: I've seen that for many SDs the vest indicates when it's working (vest=on) and when it's allowed to be just a pet (vest=off). Not quite sure how this applies to psyDogs, though, I think I've seen it more in the context of guide dogs (vision/hearing) who really need to be alert 150% when out and about with their handler.

@EveHarrington and @Freida Thank you so much for the clarification?

Btw, of course this wasn't supposed to be a questionmark but an exclamation point! Early morning brain fart.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

@lostforgottensoul :laugh:

There's a ton of places that sell vets and they range wildly in price. Make sure you get a patch that says Do Not Pet and has the words Service Dog on it. Again, not required but ya...you want one :)

To add. I had a lot of people unable to see he had a vest on from the front. I bought a leash wrap that reads sideways that says "Working Service dog. Do not approach". And I clipped it on the front strap of his vest. Made a world of a difference! It's black with white lettering but you can get it in any color. White with red lettering is even easier to see. Anything easy to see.

Even our "summer vest says" service dog do not pet.

 

[Sideways]

I think this really is more a problem for "psychiatric" SDs rather than those for physical impairments, because the latter >usually< are more obvious.

So not how things are here in Australia.

We have dogs for allergies (like lethal peanut allergies - personally know the GC trainer that trains that skill & it’s super impressive), diabetes alert dogs, hearing dogs, epilepsy and seizure dogs... We have a lot of people come through our program with no mental illness and no visible physical disability.

ETA I wouldn’t eat at a restaurant where they allowed dogs to pee and bark, service dog or otherwise. Regardless of whether the dog is a legit SD or not, there’s no obligation on staff to tolerate that kind of behaviour from a dog on their premises.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

So not how things are here in Australia.

Not in America either. I mean, legally they are all service dogs but many are invisable that aren't for psychiatric reasons. Sezuire alert is a big example. Any sort of medical alert. Many here have allergy alert smelling food in the grocery store. I mean, there are just so many kinds that are not "obvious" at all looking at the team.

@vests I know it's against privacy/ADA laws, but I somehow wish that IF you decide to buy a vest/identifcation, that THEN you'd have to provide some sort of "justification". I'm sure it'll shy away a lot of those who try to fake Fifi. I mean, there's still those websites who provide fake psychologist letters (for ESAs), but I think it puts at least one more emotional barrier to it (because then people have to actually ask someone to actually fake something).

No! I do not want to have to tell every business that I have PTSD. It is absolutely no one's business and that is protected by law and let's keep it that way!

There are a lot of ways to help the faking issue that has no baring on the real handlers and their privacy of their medical information. I certianly don't wanna have to say "well, I am sitting on your store floor with my dog across me because I disocciate and move places without remembering". I mean, really? No!

I've seen pro's and con's against vests. It's obviously much easier re public access. On the other hand, it draws attention to you and your dog and your disability

The dog draws the attention. Vest or not. Guide dog handlers do struggle with that same thing. Its just more are used to seeing guide dogs but it still draws attention. A vest with "service dog do not pet" really doesn't draw anymore attention peraonally.

And yes, as a potiental handler of a service, that is a con you will need to weigh. It comes with a service dog and not all can handle that attention. It can make anxiety worse for some and for some, can make symptoms worse so for those folks I say a service dog may not be the right choice.

One more thing re vests that comes to mind: I've seen that for many SDs the vest indicates when it's working (vest=on) and when it's allowed to be just a pet (vest=off). Not quite sure how this applies to psyDogs, though, I think I've seen it more in the context of guide dogs (vision/hearing) who really need to be alert 150% when out and about with their handler.

This is handler's choice. Many free their service dog's, rest and exercise them while vested and many work them unvested. Don't assume a service dog ia free from duty just because it doesn't have a vest. Ask first. Always!

ETA: There are many ways to mark a service dog. I have an all velcro collar that I can put patches on. Many have collars with sewen in writting of "service dog". Chopper has a tag as well. There are many ways to mark a dog without a vest.