Torture Vs Abuse

[Ronin]

So that doesnt make it not

And that depends what we're talking, how it effects the kiddo in question, what the situation is, if that's something their parent / caregiver does regularly, with what reasoning and what aims.

I can't blanket answer something so non descript or think of it more without more detailed description.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I can't blanket answer something so non descript or think of it more without more detailed description.

I was speaking of my past and what I ETA in my spoiler code on my last reply but didnt want to say that as this isnt about me or my past and didnt want to throw the thread off topic.

Its ok, no big deal. I went to my diary and rambled about it there if you want to reply there thats cool, I just dont wanna go off topic on this thread.

ETA: Just got confused is all.

 

[Ronin]

ETA: Just got confused is all.

In my book it is, re: what you described, both for how systematic effort that was on your parent's part & how misusing the authority he had as a parent & how twisting his legal responsibilities to you as a child, and the effect it had on you / continues to have even as you work hard on recovery.

Just thinking of how to generalize the cases in which parents torture their children / train them for specific own agendas.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Just thinking of how to generalize the cases in which parents torture their children / train them for specific own agendas.

Right, I do underatand that and I only defined it as torture because my therapist defined it as such.

Here's where my confusion came in:

They have the "right" to detain you, because they've taken that right by force & are not operating under the law.

While most abusive parents might like to believe they're the highest authority, when push comes to shove? Most aren't. Nor do most abusive parents cross the threshold for practical application of torture. Horrific, ungodly abuse? Yes. Torture. No.

The moment you're kidnapped/abducted/held against your will, your captors are now acting in official capacity.

I wasnt kidnapped technically nor physically held against my will but was conditioned and made to believe, and did so fully, that if taken away Id go somewhere worse so I did stay techincally by my own free will I guess.

So if one is conditioned to stay, most especially as a child but even as an adult, and then tortured...not physically held there but conditioned to stay, is that still torture?

 

[Ronin]

@lostforgottensoul in my book yes, with the following reasoning:

That conditioning would be inflicting mental & emotional suffering on the person.
Which is one of the definitions of torture itself.

 

[Sideways]

@lostforgottensoul - and maybe I'm wrong, but there were numerous occasions where you were, in fact, being held captive...

 

[Ronin]

but there were numerous occasions where you were, in fact, being held

And this. Also was wondering there's some minimization / denial / selective memory going on, involuntarily, though 'glad' to see my memory about reading isn't mistaken.

 

[ghotiff]

Ability to escape still plagues my mind.

In situations where the person is definitely held captive under all definitions ... I'm sure in many of these situations that were long and ongoing there would have been an opportunity to escape (maybe a really bad option, but technically an option). I hate the idea that these situations might be seen as less somehow, from a trauma perspective missing an opportunity to escape I expect would add another layer to the trauma.

I'm saying this I think because of the ignorant "just tell someone and you will be saved" people. I told people, I told my parents, I told many adults. They all listened as if they cared but then did nothing.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

but there were numerous occasions where you were, in fact, being held captive...

The "closet punishment", that is true; (a few other things) but i just meant like a general sense. Went to school still etc.

@Cashew explaination made sense. I dont want to go off topic or make this thread about me, was just confused about that.

 

[Sideways]

I can't help feeling like this is one of those really loaded conversations where it's easy to make people feel invalidated if someone puts forward a definition of torture that doesn't fit their personal experience. My T uses the word, and I hate it. It's unnecessarily dramatic and emotive. The fact that it was "abuse", for me, is more than enough - that's already worse than what I can accept.

Any kind of abuse that lands a person with ptsd was, no doubt, a "torturous" experience. I'm not sure I much like creating this additional line in the sand that might leave people feeling invalidated. It's making me uncomfortable for some reason.

 

[Ronin]

Went to school still etc.

Dear, the same as about other forms of abuse applies:
It doesn't go on in a vacuum. It's not something that happens outside of 'normal life'. It happens /as/ normal life and alongside everything else in life.

That doesn't make it less awful thing people shouldn't have been put through.

 

[ghotiff]

I totally respect your comments @Ragdoll Circus

For me these more academic type discussions about definitions really help. I find it far easier to think about and "talk" about my abuse from these types of threads.

As someone with far lower abuse than many here (maybe even most) I have never felt invalidated in these types of threads. Maybe that makes you feel more comfortable?

One of my favorite things about this site is that I've never felt any competition for worst abuse, instead it's a network of people who all want the same thing, which is healing from the bad things that happened in our past.