We need to create 1 unified language for our diaries

bellbird

Sponsor
Image that I speak America English And you speak Spanish? How could we communicate we don’t have a common language.
We need a common launguage!
This is an English-language peer support site. We already have a common language: English.

Sure, English is a pretty whacky language and there is country/region/culture-specific usage and phrasing (see Words and Sayings Unique to Your Country/Culture for some nice examples) but the reality is, that this site has members from many parts of the world (myself from Middle-earth, for instance) and we still manage to understand each other the vast majority of the time. And if we don't, there's always the ability to clarify.

Furthermore, if you look around, you'll see many members, from many parts of the world, reporting a benefit from this site - with the current language usage.

I think we need to create a (one) unfied language for our diaries so that researches can study us
Now, talking to your original argument. This isn't necessary, for a number of reasons.
1. As others have already said, our diaries are simply personal narrative.
2. You would need to essentially mind-read what kind of language the researchers would "want".
3. You're also essentially mind-reading that the researchers would even "want" us to use a 'unified' language.
As, in effect they'd not even be studying us interacting 'naturally', rather funneled into using some sort of 'code'.
4. Researchers design a study question and then either use and analyse pre-existing datasets that fit their study parameters, or otherwise perform new experiments to generate the required datasets.
If the dataset doesn't yet exist, so what? It's why we occasionally have researchers coming here to ask for participants in specific studies. It's not up to us (members) to do that for them (researchers).

It's important to remind yourself of the scope of a resource.
Here, the scope is peer support for those impacted by (c)PTSD.
It simply isn't a resource developed for the benefit of researchers.
And it is also entirely possible that turning it into a resource for the benefit of researchers (though I still argue such a benefit isn't necessarily valid), would remove the legitimate benefit experienced by members using this site for support (as others in this thread have also already said).

You appear very passionate about what you have proposed. But it also appears that as a result, you are trying to shoehorn this resource into fixing an issue that is not an issue.

I, personally, do not feel that you are going to make any practical ground here.
Instead, it may be more effective for you to:
1. Consolidate the 'code' you feel most relevant to the discussion of PTSD-related issues, beyond the language that is already being used here.
2. Create your own resource that requires members to use your proposed code to communicate.
Also ensuring that the scope of the resource is clearly for the purpose of being studied by researchers.
3. Once you have adequate membership and usage, approach researchers with a link to your resource/data.
 

Friday

Moderator
I realize that when I post in my diary that the “coding” that I use baffles the readers. That isn’t hood bc I am trying to Help the reader understand what I am saying to hep them!! And they can’t understand bc they don’t know what my codes are: I have got to say that an old boyfriend read my diary and he was a bit baffled. He is a medial professional and is interested in what I have to say. And he said my blig here was confusing bc he Kept havign to go back to figure iut
Who was who! (I use abbreviations instead of actual names!)
We need to create 1 language that we all speak to write our diaries so than any of us, not just “researches”, can understand what I am saying: this is important bc our “voice/diary entry” will save LIVES!
Lemme get this straight… An exboyfriend read your diary, doesn’t know what the f*ck you’re on about, and the solution -rather than being to clarify how you yourself write- is for everyone else to change how they write, to sound more like you. And the fate of the world -the children!- rests on everyone doing so immediately.

Pull the other one.
 

Sues

MyPTSD Pro
I have invented a language to explain - describe - what is going On.
So, you've invented some strange language with acronyms, abbreviations, etc and want us to start using it when we write here. Nope, not happening. We write here in English. With words. That are readable and understandable. There is zero reason or need to change that. And the few abbreviations that are used here are very common and easy to read.

We need to make decisions as to how to write our experiences so that researchers can interpret what er are saying.

No we don't. We come here for help, healing, guidance, advice and to vent, among other things. If researchers want to come and read our stuff, so be it. You are very demanding in your approach and want us all to comply to your wishes. We are not going to do that.
 

Chris-duck

MyPTSD Pro
So I have a couple of thoughts.

Firstly that, like others have said, we are speaking all in the same language here, dialects aside. And your proposed change actually complicates things.. Why say "fbs" instead of just "flashbacks", and then flashback here is a medical term, not one invented by this site, so the definition isn't really up for debate there. It sounds a bit like you feel misunderstood and want to explain how *you* communicate, but explaining yourself doesn't require other people to change how they communicate.

Secondly, I've read a lot of diaries here, and I can't even see much "data" that would help current children. There's plenty of studies on signs of abuse etc.etc. And really, the only info anyone would get from diaries here is how it affects people years later since there are no children (or shouldn't be) on here talking about their shit. And people rarely give enough info for someone to come in and call the cops on a past abuser, cos it's a (mostly) anon forum. Research typically isn't the "best" way to help kids currently being abused anyway, future kids yeah, but "wait a couple of years while we gather research, get it published and then use it to change the system" isn't really the fastest way to help children.

Although I am a bit confused, do you have any more context for what brought this on? Did you try and do something to help and it was misinterpreted? Or do you feel misunderstood here? Or do you find it hard to understand other members here? No need to answer, just, yeah. I'm wondering.
 

joeylittle

Administrator
@Widow_of_one - all the members on this thread are saying versions of the same thing, to you.

I could quote many, but I'll use this one:
It sounds a bit like you feel misunderstood and want to explain how *you* communicate, but explaining yourself doesn't require other people to change how they communicate.
You feel misunderstood and want to explain how *you* communicate.

But explaining yourself doesn't require other people to change how they communicate.


You said earlier in the thread, you've invented a language to describe your experiences. That's great - you have a way to talk about them that makes sense to you.

If you are interested in knowing how to share what you are experiencing, then you need to become interested in learning the language of psychiatry and psychology.

It's that simple.

To use your metaphor - if I went to Spain, and wanted to communicate with someone native to that country - I'd need to learn Spanish.

The answer isn't in having a communal language. It's in learning the language that is already in use and continuously being built, by the scientists - researchers - who devote their lives to studying and codifying mental health problems.

Now, does that language evolve? Absolutely. PTSD used to be called "shell-shock", because it was first identified in soldiers returning from war.

Did PTSD exist before that, as a condition? Also, yes. It was certainly not called PTSD, but it was there. Over time, people study it and develop language to describe it, to diagnose it....and frankly, this is best done from the outside in, and not the other way around. We aren't capable of seeing ourselves completely objectively. There's a place for our ways of describing things - but that's only part of the puzzle, not the one and only answer.

Now: You call them "Fb". I had to ask you once if you meant Facebook or Flashbacks... And that's what it boils down to.

You can choose to learn how to use the existing language, and others will understand you better.

Or, you can choose to use your own language, and others will not understand you any better.

When you say this:
First of all I’ve realized that a “Fb” is not one event it is a cluster of memories that happened before or after. So your mind will show you “happy” things that happened then it will show the sad trauma that you experienced
You're wrong. A flashback in psychology - by definition - is an intrusive, time-limited re-experiencing of an aspect of a traumatic past event.

Why invent a new definition for flashback, when it is already a very complex mental phenomenon?

What you're calling a flashback? That's simply called, memory. Remembering. Having a memory can prompt another memory, and that second memory might be traumatic in nature. That could then trigger a flashback. But the happy thoughts are not part of 'flashback', as clinically defined.

The thing you call "screen memories"... I asked you about that one, too, and what you described was an interesting way of talking about a few different concepts that already exist in psychology. Substitution, confabulation, suppression - these are three ways we alter our own memories. We do them subconsciously (which means, without realizing it). And there are more ways to describe memory alteration. Many, many more ways....you can learn about them, if it's interesting to you.

Or you can do what people are on this website to do - work out their experiences in their own ways. Find common ground with others, sure - but our purpose is to connect with ourselves and our individual symptomology. We do that within the existing science, which is always changing.

Think it over. Re-read this thread. Take some time to see if you can understand where others are coming from. Work it out in your diary.

I'll leave you with one last thought - if you've made it this far - this "purpose" you stated:
We need to create 1 language that we all speak to write our diaries so than any of us, not just “researches”, can understand what I am saying
That's called a "Freudian slip" - We need to create one language so any of us can understand what you are saying. This is about you, not about anybody else.
Omg! Stop with the crazy talk. Seriously we are all alive - we’ve suffered but we have made it! Let’s stop the Crazy and settle on a language! One language to help the children! We are their only hope! Right?
And that's an example of a symptom called "grandiosity." One language to help the children? We are their only hope? Honestly, no. But if you truly believe this, I strongly suggest that you consult with a medical professional about it. Start with a complete physical. Grandiosity doesn't accompany PTSD, it does accompany other diagnoses. What you describe as moments of clarity could also be part of a different symptom set....

OR, you're just expressing yourself passionately, which there's no rule against so long as it remains respectful of those points that are opposite to your own.

We've suffered but we have made it? Speak for yourself. I see a website full of people working on making it, day to day.

I'm going to re-open the thread, because (although I may have killed it, lol) this idea of how we talk about our symptoms, and the value in choosing to use existing frameworks to discuss and find commonality...and even why sometimes using the "right" words isn't important too..it's all an interesting discussion.

ALL: Lets just keep to the basic topic. And if you see something that's off, hit report - that's what it's there for, and thank you to all those who already did!
 

Mee

MyPTSD Pro
) this idea of how we talk about our symptoms, and the value in choosing to use existing frameworks to discuss and find commonality...and even why sometimes using the "right" words isn't important too..it's all an interesting discussion.
it is interesting. And I like your point that using the ‘right’ words might not always be important. This comes up occasionally for me in therapy when I seek to be as truthful as I want to always be but also have privacy/ intimacy fears . My T has pointed out a few times that being honest and precise isn’t always strictly necessary- and that indeed , Some pretty effective manipulation can be done by saying something that’s technically true. E.g. my brother in law used to say he read law at university- He read some legal books in the university library. He was technically true, but also fraudulent. Words can be Wiley and people can manipulate them .

Often the most missed thing in communication I think are the really simple questions about what people mean - checking we have similarly grasped the similar interpretation of words before responding. Definition/ interpretation threads here are often really interesting.
 

DharmaGirl

MyPTSD Pro
Often the most missed thing in communication I think are the really simple questions about what people mean - checking we have similarly grasped the similar interpretation of words before responding.
I agree. I just started watching TV, and I find it interesting that the communication between characters is so horrid! It helps to make me look at my communication more. I know that a lot of times when I want to respond here, I don't use enough words to get my idea across correctly.
 

Widow_of_one

MyPTSD Pro
What would that look like - as in, is there something that you're envisioning, or some way that we are interfering with current research? I just don't think I'm understanding.
I don’t know I am just putting this idea out there. This needs to be done. We are the lucky ones:we are tough, and are still alive. Think of jonbenet…we need a consensus

This is an English-language peer support site. We already have a common language: English.

Sure, English is a pretty whacky language and there is country/region/culture-specific usage and phrasing (see Words and Sayings Unique to Your Country/Culture for some nice examples) but the reality is, that this site has members from many parts of the world (myself from Middle-earth, for instance) and we still manage to understand each other the vast majority of the time. And if we don't, there's always the ability to clarify.

Furthermore, if you look around, you'll see many members, from many parts of the world, reporting a benefit from this site - with the current language usage.


Now, talking to your original argument. This isn't necessary, for a number of reasons.
1. As others have already said, our diaries are simply personal narrative.
2. You would need to essentially mind-read what kind of language the researchers would "want".
3. You're also essentially mind-reading that the researchers would even "want" us to use a 'unified' language.
As, in effect they'd not even be studying us interacting 'naturally', rather funneled into using some sort of 'code'.
4. Researchers design a study question and then either use and analyse pre-existing datasets that fit their study parameters, or otherwise perform new experiments to generate the required datasets.
If the dataset doesn't yet exist, so what? It's why we occasionally have researchers coming here to ask for participants in specific studies. It's not up to us (members) to do that for them (researchers).

It's important to remind yourself of the scope of a resource.
Here, the scope is peer support for those impacted by (c)PTSD.
It simply isn't a resource developed for the benefit of researchers.
And it is also entirely possible that turning it into a resource for the benefit of researchers (though I still argue such a benefit isn't necessarily valid), would remove the legitimate benefit experienced by members using this site for support (as others in this thread have also already said).

You appear very passionate about what you have proposed. But it also appears that as a result, you are trying to shoehorn this resource into fixing an issue that is not an issue.

I, personally, do not feel that you are going to make any practical ground here.
Instead, it may be more effective for you to:
1. Consolidate the 'code' you feel most relevant to the discussion of PTSD-related issues, beyond the language that is already being used here.
2. Create your own resource that requires members to use your proposed code to communicate.
Also ensuring that the scope of the resource is clearly for the purpose of being studied by researchers.
3. Once you have adequate membership and usage, approach researchers with a link to your resource/data.
Blah blah blah…you are missing the point and being “over verbal”…

@Widow_of_one - all the members on this thread are saying versions of the same thing, to you.

I could quote many, but I'll use this one:

You feel misunderstood and want to explain how *you* communicate.

But explaining yourself doesn't require other people to change how they communicate.


You said earlier in the thread, you've invented a language to describe your experiences. That's great - you have a way to talk about them that makes sense to you.

If you are interested in knowing how to share what you are experiencing, then you need to become interested in learning the language of psychiatry and psychology.

It's that simple.

To use your metaphor - if I went to Spain, and wanted to communicate with someone native to that country - I'd need to learn Spanish.

The answer isn't in having a communal language. It's in learning the language that is already in use and continuously being built, by the scientists - researchers - who devote their lives to studying and codifying mental health problems.

Now, does that language evolve? Absolutely. PTSD used to be called "shell-shock", because it was first identified in soldiers returning from war.

Did PTSD exist before that, as a condition? Also, yes. It was certainly not called PTSD, but it was there. Over time, people study it and develop language to describe it, to diagnose it....and frankly, this is best done from the outside in, and not the other way around. We aren't capable of seeing ourselves completely objectively. There's a place for our ways of describing things - but that's only part of the puzzle, not the one and only answer.

Now: You call them "Fb". I had to ask you once if you meant Facebook or Flashbacks... And that's what it boils down to.

You can choose to learn how to use the existing language, and others will understand you better.

Or, you can choose to use your own language, and others will not understand you any better.

When you say this:

You're wrong. A flashback in psychology - by definition - is an intrusive, time-limited re-experiencing of an aspect of a traumatic past event.

Why invent a new definition for flashback, when it is already a very complex mental phenomenon?

What you're calling a flashback? That's simply called, memory. Remembering. Having a memory can prompt another memory, and that second memory might be traumatic in nature. That could then trigger a flashback. But the happy thoughts are not part of 'flashback', as clinically defined.

The thing you call "screen memories"... I asked you about that one, too, and what you described was an interesting way of talking about a few different concepts that already exist in psychology. Substitution, confabulation, suppression - these are three ways we alter our own memories. We do them subconsciously (which means, without realizing it). And there are more ways to describe memory alteration. Many, many more ways....you can learn about them, if it's interesting to you.

Or you can do what people are on this website to do - work out their experiences in their own ways. Find common ground with others, sure - but our purpose is to connect with ourselves and our individual symptomology. We do that within the existing science, which is always changing.

Think it over. Re-read this thread. Take some time to see if you can understand where others are coming from. Work it out in your diary.

I'll leave you with one last thought - if you've made it this far - this "purpose" you stated:

That's called a "Freudian slip" - We need to create one language so any of us can understand what you are saying. This is about you, not about anybody else.

And that's an example of a symptom called "grandiosity." One language to help the children? We are their only hope? Honestly, no. But if you truly believe this, I strongly suggest that you consult with a medical professional about it. Start with a complete physical. Grandiosity doesn't accompany PTSD, it does accompany other diagnoses. What you describe as moments of clarity could also be part of a different symptom set....

OR, you're just expressing yourself passionately, which there's no rule against so long as it remains respectful of those points that are opposite to your own.

We've suffered but we have made it? Speak for yourself. I see a website full of people working on making it, day to day.

I'm going to re-open the thread, because (although I may have killed it, lol) this idea of how we talk about our symptoms, and the value in choosing to use existing frameworks to discuss and find commonality...and even why sometimes using the "right" words isn't important too..it's all an interesting discussion.

ALL: Lets just keep to the basic topic. And if you see something that's off, hit report - that's what it's there for, and thank you to all those who already did!
Seriously you are being “overly verbal” this is easy! We need one unified language so that anyone can read your diary and understand what you mean. Plus we need to help the children who are suffering now

So, you've invented some strange language with acronyms, abbreviations, etc and want us to start using it when we write here. Nope, not happening. We write here in English. With words. That are readable and understandable. There is zero reason or need to change that. And the few abbreviations that are used here are very common and easy to read.



No we don't. We come here for help, healing, guidance, advice and to vent, among other things. If researchers want to come and read our stuff, so be it. You are very demanding in your approach and want us all to comply to your wishes. We are not going to do that.
Omg! Please consider this a “verbal restraining order”. Don’t look at any of my posts anymore
 

joeylittle

Administrator
@Widow_of_one - You don't get to tell people to not look at your posts. If you don't want to see their posts? Then you put them on 'ignore', not the other way around.

Regardless: Members have engaged with your topic. They've disagreed with you. Instead of discussing, you're insisting that this delusion you have (about saving the children) is real - and now you're declaring that posters are being overly verbal...in a thread about communicating with words, of all things. I don't think you see the problem with that.

I'm issuing a 30-day ban. If you choose to come back after that - come back with a different attitude.
 

Sues

MyPTSD Pro
Thank you joeylittle. This is an irritating and frustrating thread. Regardless, as you said, we have treated widow_of_one with nothing but respect, even though we don't agree with anything they've said. It looks like they are unable to comprehend even basic reasoning and discussion. It will be interesting to see how they react in 30 days. I suspect nothing will change.
 
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