Childhood Weird oblique abuse/deprivations

[Dana1010]

Did anyone's parents practice any covert, oblique types of abuse on them? I'm realizing that it wasn't an accident that I didn't have a social life when I was a kid. My mother was actually making choices to deliberately keep me from having any friends or getting out of the house. Does anyone have any idea why she would do that?

Please share your experiences with this type of abuse/abusers? Are these people sadists? Narcissists?

 

[Ronin]

So your mother was basically a basic abuser, doing what basic abusers do?

(Imho if you want to know her motives, or admitted to motives, the only person that can tell you is her.
As to pathology, abuse does not require it. Nor would having neat labels necessarily tell you more about your history, or them.)

 

[Dana1010]

As to pathology, abuse does not require it. Nor would having neat labels necessarily tell you more about your history, or them.

I'm not sure I agree with you. Normal people abuse children? Seriously?

Also, it's not just about "neat labels." Those labels have definitions that can fill in missing pieces. Understanding someone's pathology could lead to more clarity about what occurred, what they did to you and why. Clarity is worth something to me.

 

[Friday]

I'm not sure I agree with you. Normal people abuse children? Seriously?

Most abusers wouldn’t meet the diagnostic criteria of any disorder, yes.

Of those that do have disorders, it’s rare the disorder caused -or even played a part in- the abuse.

Most abusers are simply cruel selfish assholes.

Many others simply didn’t know any better. <<< This one is why parenting classes are the first step in most child abuse and neglect cases. If they take the classes and are still abusive? The courts now know it’s not ignorance, but deliberate choice.

The biggest trick / rule of thumb in asshole vs disorder? Do they confine their abuse to specific people (their own kids, spouse, people under them at work, etc.) or do they treat everyone exactly the same? Because disorders don’t turn off when they go to work, or their boss is present, at friends homes, in front of the neighbors, etc... and turn on when they’re alone with their victims.

Abuse, rape, etc. are seperate things in nearly all cases. Sure, some delusional disorders, some brain injuries, some developmental disorders make a person unable to discriminate. But even most sadists, aren’t also abusive, as there are countless consensual and constructive avenues people can -and usually do- pursue. The choice to abuse others, for most people IS a choice.

There’s a leeeetle bit of wiggle room in substance abuse disorders. A lot of people are mean drunks / only abusive when they drink or are high. Still, to my way of thinking, that simply backs the choice up a step. As few people are stupid enough not to realize that when they drink they hurt people. If you only hurt people when you drink? Stop drinking.

I'm realizing that it wasn't an accident that I didn't have a social life when I was a kid. My mother was actually making choices to deliberately keep me from having any friends or getting out of the house.

If it helps at all? Isolating their victims is almost page 1 in the abusers handbook in domestic violence & child abuse. It’s not weird, at all. It’s a lot stranger for abusers to encourage a rich and varied support structure outside of themselves. That does happen. It’s just not very common. And it usually comes along with other avenues of control that counteract (like transportation and finance).

 

[Dana1010]

The choice to abuse others, for most people IS a choice.

But who would choose to do it? You don't think there's a difference between normal people and cruel, selfish assholes?

Because disorders don’t turn off when they go to work, or their boss is present, at friends homes, in front of the neighbors, etc... and turn on when they’re alone with their victims.

I'm not talking about something like schizophrenia. Cluster B people like psychopaths and narcissists pass for normal every day. They can choose not to abuse people when they determine that they can't get away with it. The difference when they're with their children at home is that they can get away with it. Maybe they even created them just so they would have a sort of harem of individuals to abuse.

But even most sadists, aren’t also abusive.

Most sadists aren't also abusive? Are you sure about this? If they are practicing sadism, and not just fantasizing about it, aren't they abusive by definition?

 

[Friday]

But who would choose to do it? You don't think there's a difference between normal people and cruel, selfish assholes?

That’s the difference, right there. And it’s more than enough of one.

A person doesn’t have to be cruel AND <insert disorder here> in order to be abusive. The cruelty is enough. All on its own.

 

[Kubash16]

Neurotypical people make good and bad choices all the time.

Same with neurodiverse people.

Not everyone who makes bad/abusive choices are neurodiverse.

Sure there are disorders that make cognitive functioning, ability to know potential consequences, and self control extemely hard. But there are plenty of neurodiverse people who even with those challenges choose to either work on them or not.

A person not predisposed to those challenges? Has every choice in the world to act in one way or another.

 

[Dana1010]

I'm fairly certain my mother had full blown narcissistic personality disorder with a highly unusual, very sick, sadistic streak. This is what I'm trying to understand more about. Trust me, this person wasn't a run-of-the-mill asshole.

 

[Dana1010]

isolating their victims is almost page 1 in the abusers handbook in domestic violence & child abuse.

Right. The purpose is to isolate them so they can abuse them -- physically, sexually, whatever. It seems in this case, the isolation was an end in itself. She didn't hit us or touch us inappropriately. I'm trying to figure out what the hell she was getting out of keeping us in the house with no social life. There was no physical abuse for us to report to friends. So why the hell did she not want us to have any?

Also, please keep in mind that I'm not trying to clear anyone of culpability because they had a disorder. Of course they chose to do it. But the fact that someone would choose to do something like that, I think, suggests that they are disordered in some way.

 

[Sideways]

Cluster B people like psychopaths and narcissists pass for normal every day. They can choose not to abuse people when they determine that they can't get away with it.

A person diagnosed with NPD? Can’t switch it off.

ETA: that’s not to say your mother wasn’t narcissistic. She may well have been. But the diagnostic criteria are such that those who have the specific NPD disorder (which most people with narcissistic traits don’t have) it pervades their life.

 

[Neverthesame]

Maybe she was lonely?

 

[Dana1010]

A person diagnosed with NPD? Can’t switch it off.

It definitely did pervade her life. I think that may be why she wanted to isolate and cut herself and us off. Something about keeping potential thunder-stealers out of her environment.

What I mean is they can go into public and fake normalcy if they have to, at least for a period of time.

And I understand why you want to be careful about this. There is a lot of blather online about this narc I knew, or that narc I knew. In a lot of those cases, people are bitching about some A-hole who didn't have full-blown NPD. Someone who chooses to isolate and live without any friends or social contact, and also make sure their kids don't have any social contact? I would say that is full-blown something. My working theory is NPD, but there seems to have been a sadistic element too.