General What are they thinking?

[WTF Happened]

@Freida Thanks for talking about shutting down overwhelming emotions in order to survive.

Sometimes I read things like that and I think, "How nice that you don't have to feel the tough emotions like the rest of us." When my ex and I broke up - and perhaps still to this day, I don't know - she was completely emotionless, devoid of any empathy whatsoever. I had to feel the intense pain of this insane thing that was happening, and still hurt to this day, and she didn't have to feel anything. Judging by the lack of remorse or any kind of explanation over a year and a half later, she still doesn't. "How nice, she gets to live her life without ever feeling what happened, and I feel it every day."

When I bring this up to my therapist, she says something along the lines of, "for now." Or, like you said, it works until it doesn't. Can you talk about how this actually becomes a problem down the road? Because, on its face, it sounds like the type of coping mechanism we'd all like to have! I understand that it eventually catches up to you, but in what way does it catch up to you? I know that I'm the lucky one because I don't have to deal with this monster that is PTSD, but sometimes it seems like the person who can numb out is the lucky one.

 

[Abstract]

@WTF Happened

How nice, she gets to live her life without ever feeling what happened, and I feel it every day.

Your ex who has PTSD is the lucky one. Im afraid you don't understand this at all. At all. I'm not downplaying what you are going through or excusing any bad behaviour that might have happened but while you are replaying a painful and confusing breakup through your mind as memories if she is struggling with PTSD she is replaying life and death or violation through hers repeatedly in various ways. Not as a memory and rather as if it is happening now. While her body is in a state of what essentially feels like permanent shock. Just trying to say that the numbing is not what I think you are envisioning. Maybe someone here can explain it more for you. All parties experiences are important and all types of pain nb.

 

[EveHarrington]

@Freida So today I emailed him and nicely explained how his disappearing and cutting me off completely affected me. How the fact that he will not even send a short email to say he's ok is painful. Look I know PTSD is the issue yet my side deserves to be acknowledged. Because eventually he will reappear and he needs to know that everything is not always according to what he wants and how he feels. I hope he files the info away in his head and perhaps it will allow him to take the first step towards help. Again, I can't stress enough to other supporters that reach out to sufferers. Treat the person with empathy and compassion. Put yourself in their situation. How you word and approach someone is important. Which is why I chose my words carefully in that email. Thank you again for all your insight. It's been eye opening and comforting.

I hope you are enforcing boundaries with him, otherwise his behavior will never change.

 

[Freida]

I had to feel the intense pain of this insane thing that was happening, and still hurt to this day, and she didn't have to feel anything. Judging by the lack of remorse or any kind of explanation over a year and a half later, she still doesn't. "How nice, she gets to live her life without ever feeling what happened, and I feel it every day.

Yep....it's hard to wrap your mind around. Here's the best way I can explain what happens to me..
Numb means no feelings. Yes, that means no anger..But it can also mean no joy or happiness. I don't get to pick the ones I want to have. It's much more global than that.

Numbing comes because the "other" memories, the ones of terror and betrayal and grief that I couldn't feel at the time because to do so would cost me my life, are ALWAYS there -- all the time. Sometimes the volume is low and I can ignore them. Other times they are shrieking air raid sirens that terrify me.

Anytime I try to add another feeling ( good/love bad/anger) it has to work around that constant noise. And sometimes I just cant. It's too much. So my brain translates my reaction as me still being in danger and pulls the plug. It is a constant part of my life and I miss out on a lot of joy because I'm numb. And what I can feel is guilt. Especially when it comes to those around me. I can't be what they want because I can't feel like they want me to. So I walk away because it is the best thing for both of us.

Why can't she tell you that? She may not know how. It's taken me 5 years of therapy to understand the mechanics of the process. And I still can't stop it from happening. And when it happens the response I get from those around me is..

"How nice that you don't have to feel the tough emotions like the rest of us."

It's not nice. It's a nightmare. One I will never completely wake up from. Oh sure, I have better coping skills but it will never stop messing me up. You will eventually get better, recover your ability to love and trust and leave this behind you.
I never will

 

[NaeNae75]

I'm trying so desperately to wrap my mind around this... On one hand it makes perfect sense, on the other - zero. I honestly keep bouncing back and forth. I guess that is because I feel that way sometimes, but not always.

It is a constant part of my life and I miss out on a lot of joy because I'm numb. And what I can feel is guilt. Especially when it comes to those around me. I can't be what they want because I can't feel like they want me to. So I walk away because it is the best thing for both of us.

You will eventually get better, recover your ability to love and trust and leave this behind you.
I never will

I think maybe what I'm wondering is how these two quotes fit into your life. Honestly, most of your post could have been taken almost verbatim from one of K's letters or things he's said to me when he's symptomatic. This is where my disconnect comes in.
You see, when I'm symptomatic, I numb too, and get into my head... analyzing and/ or rationalizing everything so I don't have to feel. But I don't leave physically very often or for very long. I know I "can't".
Sometimes it's torture, but I don't.

But when I'm not triggered, I see the difference, I think. Some stuff I don't always remember, especially if I've dissociated...but if someone tells me I said or did something, I generally believe them, because I know I do that and I don't remember some things because of my TBI, albeit generally minor.

Overall, the years and years of therapy and now EMDR have helped tremendously for me. I'm capable of so much more than I ever thought possible.

I guess my question is... then how are you in a "functional" marriage? I mean, it seems you genuinely love your husband and he's gained your trust, correct? I mean, I know it's been a tremendous amount of work for you both, but it's real, right?

Is it that when these things are going through your mind that it blocks the rest out? You see, this is exactly what we're going through right now. It's that his guilt about not being what he thinks I need makes him leave. (Along with other stuff, of course) It's usually temporary, and when he comes back, he's engaged, but when we're back to these places, he denies the rest of the 80-95% of the time he's engaged. He'll even tell me now he loves me, but is closed off.

That, I think I understand... what I don't understand is why you think:

So I walk away because it is the best thing for both of us.

I mean, how do you know what's best for both? I'm not saying that to be adversarial, promise. But this is what I struggle with. In my mind, it's what's best for you. Now I know it's for self preservation, and I can accept that completely. What I don't accept is the notion that goes around that "it's best for both". ...he says that too. A lot of people on here resonate this idea. But the reality is, no one knows what's best for anyone else. It's very presumptuous. I don't assume what's best for him...so I don't get it.

He thinks it's better for me to break up with me to "free me" or whatever to "move on", but it is not what I think is better. Since he always had come back, I say that with some confidence that really it's what he needs at the time, not me.

Now, I understand he has to do this for his on safety, and I'm fine with it. But I don't like it when he trys to explain it away and assume what I need.... that's for me to decide. If he could take his space without deciding I need to find someone new every time, it would be light years away from the pain that I feel from that statement.

It hurts to be told what I should be feeling from someone in self preservation mode. When he doesn't always even know or decide what's best for himself. I'm just curious to know if you know why you think that. Honestly, and not from sarcasm. I'm honestly interested in understanding the rational behind it. Why do you think it's best for both instead of just what you need?

Is it because you don't want to perceive it as "selfish"? (I'm not saying it is) Like if it's for both people, then you don't have to feel guilty about that too? I honestly don't think needing time and space when symptomatic is something to be guilty for. I mean, it's a need... .so why not just call it what it is? For us, it's his need, not our need - but he sees it as for me too.

I wish he could understand I don't need him to protect me from him. I've survived real trauma from real monsters....he isn't even close to that category.

Also, how do you categorize your marriage then? Im just curious, because honestly it's fascinating and I relate to your story. I'm sorry if any of this seems harsh, it truly isn't meant to be. I'm just trying to get to the root. Of course you don't have to answer if it's too hard.

Thank you so much for putting yourself out here. It's enlightening.

 

[HopefulD]

I hope you are enforcing boundaries with him, otherwise his behavior will never change.

Nothing will ever change until he decides to embark on healing and get help.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Anytime I try to add another feeling ( good/love bad/anger) it has to work around that constant noise. And sometimes I just cant. It's too much. So my brain translates my reaction as me still being in danger and pulls the plug.

Yes this! Totally this!

I adore how well you can word things many times @Freida!

 

[Mumo]

@Freida Thanks for talking about shutting down overwhelming emotions in order to survive.

Sometimes I read things like that and I think, "How nice that you don't have to feel the tough emotions like the rest of us." When my ex and I broke up - and perhaps still to this day, I don't know - she was completely emotionless, devoid of any empathy whatsoever. I had to feel the intense pain of this insane thing that was happening, and still hurt to this day, and she didn't have to feel anything. Judging by the lack of remorse or any kind of explanation over a year and a half later, she still doesn't. "How nice, she gets to live her life without ever feeling what happened, and I feel it every day."

When I bring this up to my therapist, she says something along the lines of, "for now." Or, like you said, it works until it doesn't. Can you talk about how this actually becomes a problem down the road? Because, on its face, it sounds like the type of coping mechanism we'd all like to have! I understand that it eventually catches up to you, but in what way does it catch up to you? I know that I'm the lucky one because I don't have to deal with this monster that is PTSD, but sometimes it seems like the person who can numb out is the lucky one.

I'm sorry you are going through this...I can only offer you this example...

Last night my husband asked me to pick something up from the grocery store really fast as I ran errands. No problem. As I stood in line my eyes caught a glimpse of peanut M&M's. I took a breath and turned away...and my mind starts wondering...
"Oh, it's my turn, oh sorry." I walk up to the self check out, and they are right there. "I've only got four items to scan, just go fast." My eyes keep darting back and forth to the peanut M&M's, my body tenses, and I start breathing a little more quickly. "Hurry up, hurry up, stupid card, what's my code, oh my gosh, what's my code!?! Ok, ok...let's go!"
Here's another example...(not with my husband)
(Don't offer me any of your peanut M&M's, I don't want any.)
"Are you sure?"
"Yes."
"Go ahead, take some."
"No thank you."
"What? Are you allergic to peanuts?"
"No."
"You just don't want any?"
"No, I don't."
"What? Do you have a thing against peanut M&M's?"
(Here's where it gets interesting...because, yes, I do have a thing against peanut M&M's...I've already begun shutting down, and now my mind is where I don't want it to be. I can't even concentrate on what your saying, what? 'what do I have against peanut M&M's?' I don't think you want to know...and if I tell you, it's going to be a "thing" I'll start hyperventilating, talking fast, and a little louder. I'm going to start tearing up, I'll probably start crying, I'll have to relive it again with you looking at me. Do you really want to know what I went through because of peanut M&M's? You'll get upset, shocked, mad, sad, I don't know...I'll have to apologize for upsetting you, I don't want you to pity me....no, no, no. It's better for you and me if I just don't talk about it.)
"I just don't want any of your stupid M&M's, ok!?"
"Fine, I was just trying to be nice."
(I know, I know, my eyes roll, hand to my forehead, please just stop, just let it go...stop, stop pressuring me..I know it's "irrational," but, yeah, ok, I can't be near you right now. I have to go deal with that trauma now, the one I can't tell you about. It's going to take some time. I don't know how long.)
****or worse, this...***
"Gee, what's your problem anyway?"
AAAAANNNDDD...I'm gone...I'm don't want to be around you, you're cornering me, I'm afraid of you. I have to get away from you.
Unfortunately, she's feeling a lot, just different things than you :(

 

[gealach]

''it's the best thing for both of us''

be told what I should be feeling from someone in self preservation mode.

you just answered your own question. In his mind, at that moment, he does actually believe ''it's the best thing for both of us''. As irrational as that statement is, he 100% believes it in that moment.

When not symptomatic, he'd likely agree with you that that's an irrational statement, and a cognitive distortion, etc. When symptomatic, he can't see it for what it is. And now you're trying to rationalize an irrational (temporary) belief.

Think of it this way: We all know 2+2=4. When asymptomatic, he also knows the answer is 4. When symptomatic though, he believes 2+2=10, and you just can't convince him otherwise. As his symptoms lessen, he can think that maybe the answer isn't 10, even if he doesn't know exactly what it is, but he still doesn't believe the answer is 4. As he returns to his ''normal'' (asymptomatic), he remembers the answer is 4, and can't really fathom how he ever thought it was 10. He's isolating and symptomatic AF right now, so his 2+2 is adding up to 10.

 

[somerandomguy]

@gealach, I'm totally stealing this explanation.

 

[EveHarrington]

Nothing will ever change until he decides to embark on healing and get help.

Not sure why you quoted me?

Are you saying that boundaries don’t matter? (They do, and are one of the most important things in a healthy relationship.)

 

[Freida]

@gealach me too!