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What Should Be Considered "Self-Destructive"?
- Post starter nic
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- Moderator
- #14
Wow...I think you all must have read a different thread than I did because I did not see anything asking whether Nic should have a baby and raise it as a single mother or any statement saying she was planning on tricking some sucker into fathering a child without his consent.
What I read was a post asking about the verbal treatment she recieved from her doctor and whether anyone else thought it was inapropriate.
Now I do not know Nic and I can't say whether or not she is ready to raise a child. As has been stated, raising a baby/child is a hard thing. Only Nic (hopefully along with her doctors who know her well) can make the decision about whether or not it is the right thing at the right time for her.
The doctor was out of line. Not because she had concerns (after all she does only see her at her worst) but because of the way she treated her. It would have not been difficult for her to voice her concerns in a far nicer way...such as explaining the various medical procedures involved and helping her make the decision as to whether or not she could handle them...But instead of helping her make an informed decision she chose to demean her and her desire to have a child.
I would also like to point out a couple of other things.... (1) - it can take quite a while for the cycle of someone who has been on the pill to regualte itself so that they are able to concieve. I may be wrong about dates (as I have not looked into this in several years) but the last I knew it could take up to two years...they always tell you that if you are thinking about having a baby in the near future to get off the pill because of this. (2) - Becoming a single mother by choice does not necessarily involve tricking some guy into becoming a father...that's what sperm banks are for (and they are not really all that pricey).
What I read was a post asking about the verbal treatment she recieved from her doctor and whether anyone else thought it was inapropriate.
Now I do not know Nic and I can't say whether or not she is ready to raise a child. As has been stated, raising a baby/child is a hard thing. Only Nic (hopefully along with her doctors who know her well) can make the decision about whether or not it is the right thing at the right time for her.
The doctor was out of line. Not because she had concerns (after all she does only see her at her worst) but because of the way she treated her. It would have not been difficult for her to voice her concerns in a far nicer way...such as explaining the various medical procedures involved and helping her make the decision as to whether or not she could handle them...But instead of helping her make an informed decision she chose to demean her and her desire to have a child.
I would also like to point out a couple of other things.... (1) - it can take quite a while for the cycle of someone who has been on the pill to regualte itself so that they are able to concieve. I may be wrong about dates (as I have not looked into this in several years) but the last I knew it could take up to two years...they always tell you that if you are thinking about having a baby in the near future to get off the pill because of this. (2) - Becoming a single mother by choice does not necessarily involve tricking some guy into becoming a father...that's what sperm banks are for (and they are not really all that pricey).
spiritofnow
Gold Member
I guess we all got caught up in the moral concern of this thread. I do believe that I highlighted some issues that could be CONSTRUED as self-destructive behaviour.
I guess as I am a single parent with PTSD and a difficult past that I am trying to resolve, this issue hit/pressed my button(s).
As I always point out life IS about 'individual differences' so what is true for someone with a similar background may not be for another person in similar circumstances.
I still have my own issues concerning nic's proposal - there are just so many dynamics here at play:
My history has affected my realtionship with my child - in different ways. One of those has been while he has started to become an adolscent and physically change from a child into a young man. His physical attributes, his gender and his sexual growth could of been a trigger if I was not where I am in my healing process.
When my PTSd symptoms have been at there worst I have not performed as the kind of mother I would like to be! If you are not too far along in the healing process- this has the potential to just become more guilt and more negative inward thinkning concerning your actions. Not conducive to healing!
My child is learning through example as we all do, modelling. Some of my examples are not the way I want him to see life. My inability to have a stable realtionship. Or perhaps more importantly to nurture one that is! I do not want him to believe that love can be so unstable. I have to explain to him why it has been this way for me up until now, so that he is not jaded by that!
Single parent is a whole other ball game........
Of course there are many pluses to being a parent, and a lot of beautiful ones.
I guess a professional person should not come across as judgemental, but perhaps go through the pros and cons of any choice.
Nonetheless, irrespective of labels PTSD is a disorder that has many dynamics that can make it difficult for a person to function in a reasonable and healthy manner. That does not mean that you should be labelled as self-destructive because you choose something for yourself. It means that you should at least be as realsitc and practical as you can. I am not entering into a relationship because I am healing myself. I know for a fact that right now I could not offer the 'best of me'. That does not negate the fact that I would love to be in a relationship. I understand I am not ready, and if someone suggested to me that perhaps if I was to entertain that thought at the moment becuase of my issues with my PTSd symptoms, that I was not being very practical - I would stare them in the face and say, 'you know what you are probably right', that is because I know that this is the right choice for me.
This is all life is really, choices. We have to live with them!
Life eh!
Spirit x
I guess as I am a single parent with PTSD and a difficult past that I am trying to resolve, this issue hit/pressed my button(s).
As I always point out life IS about 'individual differences' so what is true for someone with a similar background may not be for another person in similar circumstances.
I still have my own issues concerning nic's proposal - there are just so many dynamics here at play:
My history has affected my realtionship with my child - in different ways. One of those has been while he has started to become an adolscent and physically change from a child into a young man. His physical attributes, his gender and his sexual growth could of been a trigger if I was not where I am in my healing process.
When my PTSd symptoms have been at there worst I have not performed as the kind of mother I would like to be! If you are not too far along in the healing process- this has the potential to just become more guilt and more negative inward thinkning concerning your actions. Not conducive to healing!
My child is learning through example as we all do, modelling. Some of my examples are not the way I want him to see life. My inability to have a stable realtionship. Or perhaps more importantly to nurture one that is! I do not want him to believe that love can be so unstable. I have to explain to him why it has been this way for me up until now, so that he is not jaded by that!
Single parent is a whole other ball game........
Of course there are many pluses to being a parent, and a lot of beautiful ones.
I guess a professional person should not come across as judgemental, but perhaps go through the pros and cons of any choice.
Nonetheless, irrespective of labels PTSD is a disorder that has many dynamics that can make it difficult for a person to function in a reasonable and healthy manner. That does not mean that you should be labelled as self-destructive because you choose something for yourself. It means that you should at least be as realsitc and practical as you can. I am not entering into a relationship because I am healing myself. I know for a fact that right now I could not offer the 'best of me'. That does not negate the fact that I would love to be in a relationship. I understand I am not ready, and if someone suggested to me that perhaps if I was to entertain that thought at the moment becuase of my issues with my PTSd symptoms, that I was not being very practical - I would stare them in the face and say, 'you know what you are probably right', that is because I know that this is the right choice for me.
This is all life is really, choices. We have to live with them!
Life eh!
Spirit x
How single parenting got to be a "lifestyle" choice is beyond me. Single parenting is not only hard but it puts the child at a disadvantage. This is proven. They have issues from education to social settings whether your income is 20,00 a year or 100,00 a year. If you don't believe me, then look it up! There are tons of studies done on this.
Also, PTSD as a label is just bull. PTSD is our reality. It affects our every action, word and thought. It has to be considered no matter what we do. Having children is no different, in fact, it's all the more important to be considered. I'm not saying don't have children because you have PTSD. I'm saying wait until your further in the healing process where you are in management. Anything less would be irresponsible.
Plain and simply where is the thought on how this is going to adversely affect the child? This "future" child should be the utmost in every one's minds, yet it's all about the mother's desires?
Really it takes a courageous person to say, I'm going to wait to have my child so that I am giving him/her every possible chance to have a great opportunity at life and to give myself the best possible chances of being a great mother. It also takes a selfless person, the foundation of motherhood.
Also I do not see how the doctor giving their opinion on this is crossing the line. Doctors are NOT required to spin things nicely so we feel good about ourselves. Nor are they required to just tell us what we want to hear. It is their job to protect life. Even future lives that have yet to be born. Also it sounds like it doesn't matter how anyone says anything, if it's not what is wanted to be heard it's ignored, considering this is the second thread on this topic.
No matter what spin is put on this, I consider this to be a bad decision at this time. With uncontrolled PTSD, issues with basic medical exams that are vital to the child's and mother's well being, and the complete lack of consideration for how single parenting adversely effects a child makes it bad timing. Clear those issues up, and reconsider.
I'm done with this subject.
bec
Also, PTSD as a label is just bull. PTSD is our reality. It affects our every action, word and thought. It has to be considered no matter what we do. Having children is no different, in fact, it's all the more important to be considered. I'm not saying don't have children because you have PTSD. I'm saying wait until your further in the healing process where you are in management. Anything less would be irresponsible.
Plain and simply where is the thought on how this is going to adversely affect the child? This "future" child should be the utmost in every one's minds, yet it's all about the mother's desires?
Really it takes a courageous person to say, I'm going to wait to have my child so that I am giving him/her every possible chance to have a great opportunity at life and to give myself the best possible chances of being a great mother. It also takes a selfless person, the foundation of motherhood.
Also I do not see how the doctor giving their opinion on this is crossing the line. Doctors are NOT required to spin things nicely so we feel good about ourselves. Nor are they required to just tell us what we want to hear. It is their job to protect life. Even future lives that have yet to be born. Also it sounds like it doesn't matter how anyone says anything, if it's not what is wanted to be heard it's ignored, considering this is the second thread on this topic.
No matter what spin is put on this, I consider this to be a bad decision at this time. With uncontrolled PTSD, issues with basic medical exams that are vital to the child's and mother's well being, and the complete lack of consideration for how single parenting adversely effects a child makes it bad timing. Clear those issues up, and reconsider.
I'm done with this subject.
bec
I guess it's all in your perception of what a "single parent" means. I was a "single parent" for years, by my own choice, however, I had a family support system around to help. Children become "disadvantaged" because there is a lack of support and love in the home NOT because there isn't a typical father figure in the home. I would love to see these studies and find out if any further investigations were performed on those who became "disadvantaged" - ie: what was their home life like? Loving? Supportive?
Nothing is proven. It's only proven for the time being until someone else comes up with a more detailed study and then that becomes proven. And so on and so forth. The theory that children are disadvantaged if being raised by a single parent is so black and white it's almost frightening.
Quote by Bec: PTSD is our reality.
Sorry, but no, it's my reality. It's Nic's reality. It's your reality. We do not all share the same reality. Just because we all suffer from PTSD does not mean that we live the same, think the same and act the same. We may have commonalities, but it is not a shared reality.
Quote by Bec: It is their job to protect life. Even future lives that have yet to be born
That's a bit fundamental, don't you think? Wow, I mean, my jaw almost dropped by that statement. It is not the job of an OBGYN to interview every one of her patients' private lives to find out if SHE morally approves. Sorry, this is not the Church of OBGYN.
What makes it worse, is that she doesn't interview each one of her patients, yet she felt the need to offer an opinion up to Nic in a very rude manner. Glad she's not my OBGYN because I would have told her a word or two.
spiritofnow
Gold Member
I think perhaps this all getting rather over heated.
It is inevitable that we will all bring our own value systems into this thread. However, I think that we should stand back a little from them and accept that there ARE other alternatives to those that we prescribe too!
C'mon girls we are all on the same side. Here is a good metaphor; I have a prism in my hand and I ask you all to look through it! You are all looking through the exact same prism, but your perspective as you look through it and beyond will be unique to each others', and you know what? That is Okay! It may not feel the same as your percpetion, but it will be just as colourful and beautiful.
We have lost the essence to this thread..........
Spirit x
It is inevitable that we will all bring our own value systems into this thread. However, I think that we should stand back a little from them and accept that there ARE other alternatives to those that we prescribe too!
C'mon girls we are all on the same side. Here is a good metaphor; I have a prism in my hand and I ask you all to look through it! You are all looking through the exact same prism, but your perspective as you look through it and beyond will be unique to each others', and you know what? That is Okay! It may not feel the same as your percpetion, but it will be just as colourful and beautiful.
We have lost the essence to this thread..........
Spirit x
Spirit,
I do love your attempts at bringing everyone together, it's admirable. I've got to be honest with you though - I don't think that we are all on the same side, here.
I'm not sure what the essence of this thread was and why now we have lost it, maybe you could elaborate. Nic was inquiring about her OBGYN's statements and yes, the thread has forked off into subcategories but I think, especially in my last post, I pointed out why I felt her OBGYN went beyond her call of duty.
Best,
Rachel
I do love your attempts at bringing everyone together, it's admirable. I've got to be honest with you though - I don't think that we are all on the same side, here.
I'm not sure what the essence of this thread was and why now we have lost it, maybe you could elaborate. Nic was inquiring about her OBGYN's statements and yes, the thread has forked off into subcategories but I think, especially in my last post, I pointed out why I felt her OBGYN went beyond her call of duty.
Best,
Rachel
- Post starter
- #22
Hmm...I've been away on vacation for a few days, so I just got around to reading these. A couple of comments...
1. There are many ways in which to collect the, um, "materials" so to speak, that are needed to have a child. I went off the pill to regulate my cycle and to prepare my body so that when I do decide to get pregnant, my body will be ready. (I had a friend get pregnant while she was on the pill, and there can be some issues with this.) I am an honest person. I would never "trap" a guy; my current partner knows that I am not on the pill.
2. Thank you to those who recognize that this post was about a comment made, NOT about my decision whether or not to have children.
3. Also, thank you to those who recognize that we all have unique lives/experiences. PTSD affects us all, but some of us work/function differently under various conditions.
4. As far as "reading many posts on this issue," if you read carefully, I HAVE NEVER asked for anyone's opinion as to whether or not I should have a child, and the posts/threads that I have written relating to pregnancy are different. This thread was not so much about pregnancy, but rather about the (what I perceived as) unfair treatment due to the PTSD label. Also, I write about the things that affect me and what's going on in my life regarding the PTSD; right now, this is. If you don't want to read something I post, then don't.
Thank you to all those who have shared their thoughts.
Nic
1. There are many ways in which to collect the, um, "materials" so to speak, that are needed to have a child. I went off the pill to regulate my cycle and to prepare my body so that when I do decide to get pregnant, my body will be ready. (I had a friend get pregnant while she was on the pill, and there can be some issues with this.) I am an honest person. I would never "trap" a guy; my current partner knows that I am not on the pill.
2. Thank you to those who recognize that this post was about a comment made, NOT about my decision whether or not to have children.
3. Also, thank you to those who recognize that we all have unique lives/experiences. PTSD affects us all, but some of us work/function differently under various conditions.
4. As far as "reading many posts on this issue," if you read carefully, I HAVE NEVER asked for anyone's opinion as to whether or not I should have a child, and the posts/threads that I have written relating to pregnancy are different. This thread was not so much about pregnancy, but rather about the (what I perceived as) unfair treatment due to the PTSD label. Also, I write about the things that affect me and what's going on in my life regarding the PTSD; right now, this is. If you don't want to read something I post, then don't.
Thank you to all those who have shared their thoughts.
Nic
Well. Does seem a bit odd to be hearing this from a gynocologist. Psychiatrist, yes but gynocologist, a bit strange. Have you asked her to elaborate? Explain what she means by self-destructive? Believe she owes it to you to explain the statement, especially if you found it upsetting. Your right as a patient to understand what your doc is getting at.
Jim.
Nic,
I filed a complaint about an OBGYN after the birth of my first child. I was working 2 part-time jobs and had no health insurance. I could not pay the doctor bills, so I went on Medicaid.
My doctor was on vacation the day I was to be released from the hospital so another OBGYN was to sign me out. About 8 p.m. that evening she came in and lectured me about how I should get off my butt and get to work and get off the system. Then mumbled some people shouldn't be allowed to have kids.
When doctors cross the line and they should be called on it. What your doctor said is wrong. Just because she disagrees with your decision, does not give her the right to label you. Find another doctor.
I filed a complaint about an OBGYN after the birth of my first child. I was working 2 part-time jobs and had no health insurance. I could not pay the doctor bills, so I went on Medicaid.
My doctor was on vacation the day I was to be released from the hospital so another OBGYN was to sign me out. About 8 p.m. that evening she came in and lectured me about how I should get off my butt and get to work and get off the system. Then mumbled some people shouldn't be allowed to have kids.
When doctors cross the line and they should be called on it. What your doctor said is wrong. Just because she disagrees with your decision, does not give her the right to label you. Find another doctor.
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