When Suicide Becomes Justified

[Fadeaway]

I am guessing you get a lot of questions? I can't help but wonder if and think that you have a distorted perception of the scar. You see it as bad, but I wonder what other people think of it? Being asked questions about a scar is not a bad thing. people may ask because they are interested in you, not the scar.

That said, given you comparisons... I don't know about facial paralysis but everything else you listed were minor. A broken nose is a horrible thing to compare your scar too because it is so minor. Trust me I know, I have a very lovely ex. :sour: I have acne scars, and could really care less. Those are minor and you can't compare them.

 

[Justmehere]

THis post may seem harsh, but I don't mean it to be. I want to be clear though, because I care, and I hope that something in this post might give you a reason to pause.

Many people with PTSD have distorted thoughts. If you are going to cause a death of a human being on purpose, don't you want to make sure you do it based on accurate logic and thinking?

Distorted thinking gets in the way of effective problem solving. There really is a problem with your ability have undistorted thoughts that is affecting how you problem solve the problem with the scar, and is preventing you from being more effective in finding solutions you need and want. You have repeatedly and extensively misinterpreted what people write to you here quite a bit. I imagine this is not isolated to this forum at all, but affects your relationships to other people, and your thinking about other's people's responses to you offline.

This is a very serious matter since you want to end a life, cause death of a human being on purpose, based on what you perceive others think about you.

If you are going to seek solutions to the scar, wouldn't you want to do it with the most clear and undistorted thinking possible anyhow?

Please don't kill my hope of getting my face back. It's like telling anemone with a spinal chord injury that they will never walk again.

Your logic is painful to read. According to you, a scar that can not be changed is like paralysis that can not be cured. You hold the clear position that a scar that can not be changed is grounds to end a life, cause the death of a human being on purpose. Using this logic of yours, people who are told they will never walk again, they should end their lives. It would be justified using the logic you use.

Do you see any problems with this logic when applied to other people? Or do you really think that a disability means a life is not worth living?

Many people with spinal cord injuries live full and happy lives.

Some people with paralysis (a disability) actually really resent movements focused on curing the paralysis as a means to a happy life. They want a cure, but they are hurt by people who think much like you do. Not being able to walk is horrific news. It is a huge life adjustment. But it's not the end of a life like you perceive it to be. It does not make their worth or the value of their life any less than anyone else.

If you agree that people with disabilities and paralysis should not go and kill themselves just for being disabled, then why do you think different logic and rules apply to you? What makes you different than all of humanity, that a disability (paralysis) for others doesn't mean they should die, but a disability (facial scar) for you means a life of no value?

I HAVE to believe I will get my face to a point where I feel comfortable with it. I'm not striving for perfection, just so people WONT ask questions, stare, etc.

Many people, including me, fear what others think from time to time. The thing is, people are rarely ever thinking about us that much - often they really are not thinking about us at all.

Even if you had a horrible 1 inch deep gash right down the center of your face (and even if you were missing your nose all together) and other people asked a question or made a comment, they really don't think about your scar or your face all that much. People are generally much more concerned about themselves than someone else's scar or appearance. It really doesn't change their lives nor is the focus like you think it is.

They really just don't think about you this much, not as much as you think about you.

Don't you want to die based on accurate perception of what other people really thought or not? Right now, you perceive them to think about you in so many ways that appears to be far and above what normal humans do. I'm sorry, but I really doubt that you are so different from all other humans that people are all that concerned about your appearance more than they are about themselves, or anyone else.

I fear deep down inside that it is impossible to fix my face and therefore I will have to go with plan b (suicide) but I won't give up fighting for my face yet. I will die trying.

This is another distorted thought. If you commit suicide, you will die giving up on fighting for your face. Not die trying.

Live or die a few years from now, what is your objection to getting more aggressive treatment for your mental health now while you fight for your face?

 

[EveHarrington]

I think that people here really do care about you. It may not seem like it, but I don't think that others would be taking the time to write such well thought out replies if they weren't truly concerned for you.

I think that you have a very valid reason to be angry. Your life has been irreversibly changed. I truly hope that you are able to find a surgeon who can repair the damage, but you will never be the same as you were before your accident. I think that this is a common thread amongst those with PTSD. I think that most all of us have lost something as a result of our traumas. Some have lost careers, some have had to drop out of school, some have lost relationships, some have lost the ability to have children, some have become homeless, and the list goes on and on. I don't say this as a way of minimizing your pain. Rather I say this to show that trauma inevitably involves some type of loss. Others may not know exactly what it feels like to deal with your specific type of loss, but they do know what major loss feels like.

It's ok to be mad! It's ok to feel like you've been robbed of something. I just hope that you can use these angry feelings to push yourself forward rather than ultimately give up.

 

[Queen Boudica]

Many surgeons are already telling me they can't do anything. I'm disgusted with the fact that broken noses, bones, facial paralysis, skin cancer, even acne, can all be treated with less disfigurement than me! I really am royally screwed. I fear deep down inside that it is impossible to fix my face and therefore I will have to go with plan b (suicide) but I won't give up fighting for my face yet. I

Can I tell you that there have been some really amazing work on growing skin recently in laboratories, they can even grown ears. That technology will come and I am betting you will get your wish and your scar will be healed.

But you also have PTSD and that is internal damage. It takes a long time to heal that. It would be very sad if you heal your face but you still suffer the immense pain of PTSD. So how about getting some therapy to help with your PTSD and be ready for those advances in cosmetic reparation, that I reckon will come. So no you don't have to give up hope, there is hope. But in the mean-time you can feel so much better with some help in therapy.

Please don't suicide when there could be a cure right round the corner and please get yourself some therapy. I promise you it will get better than this. Can it get any worse, yes if you suicide you give up all hope.

 

[Tinyflame]

Hi @Scarface , I've stayed out of this but have read as much of it as was possible. I just have a couple of words, disregard if not helpful.

I'm sorry for the pain you're in, the loss, shock & trauma. The anger, sorrow fear of the future, the attempts at securing the reconstruction you need but cannot secure. Yet. And yes I agree with @Queen Boudica , you never know what's on the horizon. It's taken Herculean effort I expect to hang in there.

But you do say, "Is it justified?" in your title, & that even now dating is a priority.

Just my 0.02 cents, but I've found post-trauma scars (most I still have, one improved), well unfortunately even if it becomes restored it won't feel different. Perhaps because- you are different. Not all-bad, though it's my experience there is no Magic Bullet solution (though it's taken years to accept it). You might find yourself ditching shallow connections in favor of deeper ones, infinitely more fulfilling however. You my come to find people actually respect & come to admire you more for a different face you present to the world. Because after all, everyone is fighting their own battle.

Do you know of any survivor's groups?

 

[Neverthesame]

The first girl I ever fell in love with, had an impressive case of lordosis (barrel chest). She also was a bit short, even for me at around 4'10". She also had a huge scar going from the suprasternal notch (the little hollow just above the breast bone) down to about 2 inches above her navel. Plus a couple more on her back around the shoulder blades.

Why?

Dextrocardia. She was born with a backwards heart. By the time I met her at about 16 years old. (We were the same age) She'd been through a dozen surgeries to try and get her heart to more or less function while she waited for a donor organ. Since I am not freaked out by guts and gore, she showed me pictures of her various procedures. Pretty incredible stuff.

(I began going in detail about that, then remembered it's not really relevant.)

The downside of multiple pediatric cardiac surgeries, is unavoidable disfigurement of the ribcage, looks sort of like rickets. Without the bowing of the legs.

What I am getting at is, she was not what one would call, attractive. But I didn't care.

She had the kind of outlook on life that only a person who has only known living on borrowed time can have. Beautiful, irrepressible positivity.
It's infectious (in the good way).

We sadly drifted apart after I started becoming symptomatic with ptsd. Not sure where she is now, or if she's even still alive.

The last relationship I was in I was on an upswing. I met this woman at this job I work at now. (Thank God she doesn't work here anymore. That's so awkward working with an ex... lol) Anyways...

Gorgeous girl, but. One very noticeable thing. Psoriasis. Again, I didn't care.

I remember one day she shut me up cold about something silly I have lol. It's relevant so story time again.

I don't have awful skin, but one of the annoying side effects of antidepressant meds for me, I get eczema from them. Not the worst thing, but when it's happening, I can't hide it. I get it right in the middle of my face. Comes in as two patches that run down my cheeks on either side of my nose. Looks f*cking awful. Bright red cracking skin, doesn't hurt bad but I can't do anything to cover it up.

Actually, learned this the hard way. If you attempt to do anything but keep the area clean and dry, it's going to get worse, and worse. I have tried everything from creams to foundation. Nope.

This one day I'd woken up and looking at the mirror, said "oh shit, not this again". The girlfriend called me about our plans for the day. I tried to get out of it, ha nope.

Reluctantly met up with her. Couldn't look her the face, just embarrassed as all hell. She took one look at me and said "Are you f*cking kidding me? This is why you tried to get out of our plans?" I nodded, she went on with "I have stuff like that all over me, I let you see me naked. And you're embarrassed to let me see you? f*cking really?" (She swore alot)

This was when the little light bulb went on for me. We went out, had a good time.

(Did I mention she was beautiful?)

I still get this, I still get embarrassed about it. But it is what it is. And yes, people ask me about it. Not my favourite question.

Two months ago, woman I work with marched up to me, pointed at it and asked "what wrong with your face?" (Cantonese lady, blunt, very eccentric. I adore her lol)

Somewhat mortified, told her "it's eczema, it'll go away on it's own in a couple weeks." She said "oh, ok. You want cream for it?" "No, thanks, I have it under control."

She has never mentioned it again. Nor does she look at me with revilment or horror. Other than her own curiosity, she doesn't care. Nor does anyone else I work with. If they do, their too polite to tell me. (Good enough for me)

I'm not going to tell you that you are wrong feeling as you do. Nor am I arguing that because I got over my embarrassment with this kind of thing, that you must as well.

Your fears are not groundless, people do rude things. I have with my own eyes witnessed a small child, point at a burn victim and say "mommy look. A monster!"

That looked like it hurt. He definitely heard it. Though I don't think it was the first time, doubt it will be the last. There is nothing anyone can do to make that guy look better. How he deals with it, I don't know.

I do know that there are lots of shitty people out there, that are happy to make you feel small over things you can't control.

There are also lots of people out there, that choose to look past things like that, that choose to see the good below the surface. These people are out there, this is fact not conjecture.

Again I'm trying to tell you what to feel. But I can't just sit by and say nothing to someone's suffering if I can maybe say something helpful. It's not my place to fix you. I can't, no one can. But maybe you can take something useful from what I've said. And if not, thanks anyways for listening.

Edit: Got my cardiac terminology wrong. Glad I double checked that. Lol

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes @Neverthesame this is true. It's more than skin deep beauty or handsomeness, relationships involve the ability to focus on the other, not be self-absorbed.

FWIW, the most handsome men & some of the most beautiful women I've met never saw themselves that way at all.

She had the kind of outlook .. that only a person who has only known living on borrowed time can have. Beautiful, irrepressible positivity.

I absolutely love this! ^^ I guess we could all have this, because we have cheated death. :)

 

[Chava]

Right now I'll say I don't relate to the specific consequences of your trauma but I can imagine it is gut-wrenching. I do like that you have put this consideration (suicide) off several years into the future and are open to the chance for regaining a feeling of hope and feeling okay with yourself. That's smart. I'd actually keep that way out there (or consider erasing the option, though I have used that myself...the idea that I could kill myself if things don't change in a couple years....gives me a small sense of power, however false).

Like others have said, you owe it to yourself to make a big investment in healing the trauma and the fears. I hope you find a great surgeon. But there is still the trauma and the adjustment to never being exactly the same. There is also a soul or self in you that is separate from your face. I don't want to sound simplistic, I just totally mean that.

It's not the same, but it wrecked my identity...due to chronic injury I had to quit my job with a professional orchestra. That would be hard for anyone, but it's actually the only reason I did not kill myself years ago. It was my whole identity, my whole life really. It's why I ate. It's where I connected, felt okay, felt strong, and could also relate to others. It was the only thing I felt I was good at and the only place where I felt I deserved to be alive. Now, it's all gone. (this is not my trauma, btw, but for most of my life it was the one thing that kept me from destroying myself...I'm mentioning more because of the loss of "self" as I knew it, identity, and hopeless/empty connections)

I have felt very empty but realized this was all going to go at some point anyway (few people make it into their 90s still performing). I just felt I didn't have control over how it happened and had nothing else in place to feel that I was even real or worthwhile. But I was years beyond my own suicide attempts and did not feel that as the answer (but did some of the "If things don't change in a couple years, I could just kill myself...", like I said, as a way to feel some false sense of control).

I have not filled that void yet, but there is a new path and a lot for me to learn about all the parts of myself that I had unfairly rejected (every part except the musician part). There is also a grieving process that I have not quite managed.

I am sorry for your continual pain and I hope you find a good surgeon, and also a trauma therapist to help you navigate this new territory in your life. Surgery is a good way to feel like you can get some control back, but so is doing therapy.

You don't have to answer, but who do you feel you were before your trauma? What were you good at? What did you love? What gave you joy or meaning? What gave you energy? This is all still there somewhere but you are denying all of it and identifying totally with your face. This is not to undermine how real and painful it is for you. But even in your forum name, I wonder if you have erased all other parts of yourself? Personally, I know how hard it is to cope when I erase myself and deny I even have anything inside myself or any personal power. I am only left with attempts to get fixed from the outside. To an extent, finding those resources is very helpful. But it's the fighter in me that made those connections and you still have that too, I can see.

(sorry that got to be such a f*cking long response)

 

[Justmehere]

@Junebug, @Chava, and @Scarface (and others) - I can relate to the deep loss. Because of trauma, and PTSD, I lost the carear that I loved. I beginning to really believe I can have a different carear, that I love just as much. I feel haunted by the loss at times, it was my entire definition of me.

Now, my identity is changing to one that nothing can ever take away. It's not easy. The fight is worth it. I'm not thankful for the trauma, but I wish I had this identity that I have now all my life.

 

[Chava]

Another thing I wonder: Have you lost family and friend connections in any part to your own fear and isolation, fear of rejection, low self-worth, or withdrawal? That's pretty common across the board with trauma. If you can rule out everything on your side (like possibly isolating more or withdrawing) and are sure that friends have cut connections with you because of the injuries to your face, then they were simply assholes. But I'm wondering how much the perception of losing connections is possibly related to your own perceptions, self worth, and ways of connecting (or disconnecting) after your trauma. You also don't have to answer this, but just a thought...

 

[Scarface]

Thanks everyone for your reponses. I know you are trying to help, but let me be clear: my suffering is so extreme, I'm not sure anything can help. I almost NEVER leave my house. People in white collar prisons have better quality of life than I do. And I live in the heart of a vibrant city, so I constantly look out the window and see other people having fun almost 24/7. I had to delete all of my social media because I can't stand to see everyone flaunting their fabulous lives. I have become a total recluse because of my face, and this is actually a very common reaction to facial trauma/disfigurement.

So yeah, I have isolated myself, but my face is SCARRED, and as a young single woman it is devastating. The western society places so much emphasis on looks. I am not overreacting, the scar is very visible and people will comment. It is a very deep and atrophic gash in the middle of my face. And a part of me fears/knows deep down inside that the damage is irreparable. It's almost like a bad burn, the tissue is destroyed. I don't think there is a cure for scarring coming out anytime soon. It will take years, if ever. I see people on acne forums who spend YEARS trying to fix their faces with numerous plastic surgeons and dermatologists, with little to no progress. And my scarring is worse than acne. This is why I'm losing hope! @Neverthesame if my co-worker were to ask me about my scar like that I would punch her in the face! So you see, it will hold me back.

I used to get joy by being athletic, doing things outside in nature with friends. But now I can't. My scar looks the worst in sunlight. I used to love the sun/wind in my face. I was a pretty low maintenance gal, hair back in a quick ponytail and off to something cool and adventurous. But I may never be able to wear a ponytail again! And I am like a vampire, I stay inside all day, everyday.

@Justmehere I think some people are strong enough to overcome paralysis. But some are not and would rather die. I know I would not be strong enough. So I think suicide would totally be justified for someone who is clearly suffering so profoundly. I once read about a young rugby player who got in accident and became a quadriplegic. He was in his 20s. He was suffering so much, that his family helped him commit suicide at a clinic in Switzerland. How can someone judge him for not wanting to live like a vegetable?

 

[joeylittle]

So I think suicide would totally be justified for someone who is clearly suffering so profoundly.

You are not doing everything you can to alleviate your mental anguish.

As long as you insist on letting PTSD run rampant through your brain, you are not and cannot be justified in taking your own life. That's the plain and simple truth.

People who choose euthanasia have explored all their treatment options - I believe it is a criteria, actually. You are only working on 50% of your issue, if you continue to leave your PTSD untreated.

Treat your PTSD. Until then, you cannot see your face as it really is. That's a fact. After a year of Exposure therapy or EMDR, come back and say that you still are out of options.

Not "therapy". Prolonged exposure therapy (PE) or Eye Movement and Desensitization Reprocessing (EMDR). And they are available. Find it and do it.