Poll Where Do You Find A Sense Of Belonging?

[Valentino]

Maybe people responding here are something of a self-selecting group who see belonging as a positive thing even if they have trouble reaching it?

Great point, I think it's worth exploring how or why belonging might be a negative thing.

I am fiercely independent in some respects and part of that is a need to evade control. Belonging feels internally like there would be a loss of my freedom.
...
I have started realising that connection denotes risk for me.

I also seem to be the only one that has a problem with the whole thing as a concept and problems with it almost feeling like a threat to freedom.

Abstract makes some good points that 'belonging' can foster lack of freedom, possibly trapped under control of others, and there's extra risk by enjoying or getting attached to feelings of belonging.

I think that a lot of what people mean when they're talking about sense of belonging in here is more so a 'sense of community'. It's feelings of belonging that are related to interactions with other people and groups of people. Social community.

Me, having Aspergers Syndrome, of which a major symptom is a level of social blindness or poor social interaction and communication. I have never fit in socially, I have never felt a sense of belonging in relation with other people. People don't get me, can't get me, and I always fail at saying things in a way that people can truly connect to and fully understand what I'm really trying to communicate. Even though I continually fail with this, I continue to work on it, because I benefit from being a member of society, and the better I can communicate and interact with other people, the easier and more fulfilling my life will be.

So, I think I can understand how a 'sense of belonging' can seem like a weakness, especially to trauma survivors. Having a nervous system that is weakened and still recovering from effects of past traumas and abuses; this pushes a person to be both seeking safety to recover but also overly cautious and fearful of dangers from other people.

So a sense of belonging can provide safety and comfort: ie. It softens the feelings of aloneness and isolation, it feels safer in numbers, it is soothing to be with like minds, suffering is easier to handle with a partner (misery loves company), and it can be supportive.

BUT a sense of belonging can also be risky and dangerous: ie. Getting attached to someone or a group, and those people can leave you. People can use your neediness to take advantage of you. You might be enjoying the feelings too much that you become blind to potential dangers. Letting down your guard with other people, might mean you could get triggered easier and a flashback could come. You might rely on someone else's support, and they will inevitably disappoint you.

So, a sense of belonging that matches a sense of community can have both positive benefits but also negative risks. I think that also matches the give and take of living in a society. Governments work to create a level of safety and level playing field, but at the same time they place limits on people's rights and freedoms, ideally in the attempt to try to provide for the greater good. However there are always minorities that get overlooked and suffer, some are openly stigmatized, excluded or totally banished.

I'd like to throw in a deeper concept of 'sense of belonging' that's more towards 'unconditional love', 'divine love', 'radical acceptance', 'sweet surrender', or simply just 'love'. This raw energy of pure love is all inclusive, all accepting, non-judgmental, ever present, but also total and absolute non-interference. No rescuing, no validation, no protection, no defensiveness, no sympathy, no taking sides, no manipulation, no separateness, absolutely impersonal. Absolute and total freedom, including freedom at a level that can be terrifying; like being isolated and alone with a totally overwhelmed nervous system, over run by intense uncomfortable emotions out of control, and a mind full of racing negative thoughts.

This unconditional love has the power to heal any wound, but at the same time it can break a heart totally wide open and let tons of past pains come out all at once. Getting in touch with this energy can be quite scary and even traumatizing to some. In some spiritual circles they have a term the "Dark Night of the Soul" which refers to part of the process.

But unconditional love is like the ultimate and deepest inner core sense of belonging. It is where your inner true self operates out of. It's the underlying energy behind all emotions, emotions are simply distortions of love. Connection to your self and love as your anchor, creates genuine feelings of worthiness, natural appreciation, and a soft yet fierce compassion.

So, maybe the reason why a sense of community or a sense of belonging can be so attractive, addictive, or powerful; is because it's pointing us back towards unconditional love and our core true self? And that's what truly nourishes the soul, and not just entertain the intellect or calm the emotions.

 

[Tinyflame]

I think the desire/rejection for belonging is as you've described @Valentino .I always thought I had a commitment problem, yet I could be the most responsible or committed person outside of (some) relationships. Work. Caregiving. Being good to my word. Otherwise they involved a lot of 'fleeing' (fear). I found relationships to also usually end up feeling controlling or being controlling.

I agree with all you've said. I spent the better part of a lifetime wanting to read St. John's "Dark Night of the Soul"; when I finally was able I was quite disappointed because it only described what I already was in/ had been through. But it does break a heart open. I believe I (usually) have a soft but fierce compassion.

The only thing I disagree with is that I would say it requires Universal love, rather than impersonal. At least personal enough to regard in the Universality everyone is human, and all that infers. Because if one doesn't know another or doesn't 'feel' a deeper sense of the other's importance and equality I think it ends up lacking. But in person, yes it's actually risky. Care or loving anyone can involve pain and sacrifice, and giving up old ways of protection (vulnerability), and fear, loss.

Just my 0.02 cents though.

 

[EvenStrongerNow]

This forum has been a great source of feeling a sense of belonging for me. I too have had my beliefs shaken and I agree. It has to be the most devastating of all. I'm trying to reconnect to that. I firmly belief it is the single most reason I survived what I experienced.

 

[Valentino]

I spent the better part of a lifetime wanting to read St. John's "Dark Night of the Soul"; when I finally was able I was quite disappointed because it only described what I already was in/ had been through. But it does break a heart open.

This is a powerful observation, it's also a theory that I've been working on. Just how much is raw traumatic experience similar to spiritual awakening?

I'm leaning towards the idea that they're essentially the exact same thing. But with a major difference, spiritual awakenings are generally described with feelings of bliss and safety, while traumatic experiences are commonly full of terror and isolation.

If you look at common symptoms of DP/DR (DePersonalization and DeRealization), many of them match symptoms of spiritual enlightenment. Shinzen Young a veteran Buddhist meditation teacher describes it as 'Enlightenment's Evil Twin', in this video:

There is also a term called 'Spiritual Bypassing', where people use meditation and other spiritual practices as a strategy to transcend their humanity, and escape all the messiness of emotions and over-active thinking. These techniques also are very similar to dissociation, detachment, disengagement, numbing, avoidance, over-intellectualizing, etc. which many trauma survivors use. Maybe the only differences is that trauma survivor's methods are more extreme along with having a more unstable default emotional state.

So, what if trauma is a door into spiritual awakening and realization? That could provide a divine belonging, which would be way more permanent and transcendent than simply a sense of community or a sense of belonging that comes from this impermanent world.

With the spiritual path, it's a gradual process, with lots of training, support, and spiritual community in the beginning. UNTIL they reach the 'Dark Night' process, then they have to endure that process totally alone. At the end is discovery of your true self and unconditional universal love.

With the trauma path, it's slightly reversed, the 'Dark Night' comes first. There often is little preparation, training, community or support. It's literally being thrown to the wolves. Maybe many common PTSD symptoms are simply because the experience is so shocking, intense, and fast. Then in this overwhelmed state, we're left alone to try to figure out our way through and out. BUT while this path can be so much more difficult, maybe it might offer a much richer wide open heart at the end. Trauma has a way of totally breaking open the heart, tenderizing it to a point of infinite softness and openness, but it's also an infinitely courageous heart that can endure more raw emotional energy than any normal human being can. We notice that the bigger heart feels pain and suffering more intensely, but that same bigger heart can also feel bliss, joy, freedom, peace, and love just as intensely and so more than our pre-trauma hearts.

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To expand some more about impersonal aspect of love.

Pure love, at it's root, is ineffable, whatever descriptions that are put into words are inadequate and incomplete. And there's lots of paradox underlying it.

So in my experience, there is definitely a very impersonal nature to it, that's part of the absolute freedom aspect. But at the same time, there is also absolute intimacy, where you are never alone, because it's ever-present consciousness. The impersonal aspect is a 'total aloneness' but at the same time the intimacy is a 'total all oneness' where there is no separation, concepts of individuality drop. It's all inclusive and beyond, includes both the absolute and relative.

But yes, I know most people generally describe a more personalized love, universal love, cosmic consciousness, personal relationship with God, etc. Maybe my Aspie brain makes me naturally look at things impersonal by default, it takes a 2nd step for me to gather thoughts to create personalization.

.... I hope I haven't gone too far off topic or too far over people's heads. But this is what I think is close to the core of our desire for a sense of belonging. Though it might be a bit too deep and theoretical to be practical for most. This might also be coming from my attempts at trying to make sense of my personal trauma history, lots of research, investigation and observations. Thank you for the opportunity to share.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Well, at least the over-intellectualization of the topic has been explained... My eyes have been glazing over reading quite a bit of this thread!

 

[Tinyflame]

It makes perfect sense to me @Valentino , shall come back to respond if it's ok with Hashi.:)

 

[Survivor2Thriver]

This might also be coming from my attempts at trying to make sense of my personal trauma history, lots of research, investigation and observations.

Yay you get it! The human soul can be pushed into a higher level of enlightenment. Currently society wants to label the process as a mental disorder. ;(

'total all oneness'

Yes! It's the opposite end of the rabbit hole! :)

 

[Tinyflame]

Just how much is raw traumatic experience similar to spiritual awakening?

I'm leaning towards the idea that they're essentially the exact same thing. But with a major difference, spiritual awakenings are generally described with feelings of bliss and safety, while traumatic experiences are commonly full of terror and isolation. .. Shinzen Young a veteran Buddhist meditation teacher describes it as 'Enlightenment's Evil Twin'

.. to transcend their humanity, and escape all the messiness of emotions and over-active thinking. These techniques also are very similar to dissociation, detachment, disengagement, numbing, avoidance, over-intellectualizing, etc. which many trauma survivors use. Maybe the only differences is that trauma survivor's methods are more extreme along with having a more unstable default emotional state.

So, what if trauma is a door into spiritual awakening and realization? That could provide a divine belonging, which would be way more permanent and transcendent than simply a sense of community or a sense of belonging that comes from this impermanent world.

With the spiritual path, it's a gradual process, with lots of training, support, and spiritual community in the beginning. UNTIL they reach the 'Dark Night' process, then they have to endure that process totally alone. At the end is discovery of your true self and unconditional universal love.

With the trauma path, it's slightly reversed, the 'Dark Night' comes first. .. Maybe many common PTSD symptoms are simply because the experience is so shocking, intense, and fast. Then in this overwhelmed state, we're left alone to try to figure out our way through and out. BUT while this path can be so much more difficult, maybe it might offer a much richer wide open heart at the end. Trauma has a way of totally breaking open the heart, tenderizing it to a point of infinite softness and openness, but it's also an infinitely courageous heart that can endure more raw emotional energy than any normal human being can. We notice that the bigger heart feels pain and suffering more intensely, but that same bigger heart can also feel bliss, joy, freedom, peace, and love just as intensely and so more than our pre-trauma hearts.

Pure love, at it's root, is ineffable, whatever descriptions that are put into words are inadequate and incomplete. And there's lots of paradox underlying it.

So in my experience, there is definitely a very impersonal nature to it, that's part of the absolute freedom aspect. But at the same time, there is also absolute intimacy, where you are never alone, because it's ever-present consciousness. The impersonal aspect is a 'total aloneness' but at the same time the intimacy is a 'total all oneness' where there is no separation, concepts of individuality drop. It's all inclusive and beyond, includes both the absolute and relative.

... But this is what I think is close to the core of our desire for a sense of belonging.

I think @Valentino you have described a very difficult subject eloquently. Perhaps as Hashi has stated, and you here have expounded on, the 'lack of desire or 'need' to belong' relates back to what is already a greater fulfillment. Nothing lacking.

JMHO but I do not think trauma necessarily leads to enlightenment, but there remains an opprotunity for it to do so provided despair and bitterness etc do not take the place of what can be gained.

I understand what you mean by impersonal, thank you. I was not equating it to the way you describe. And absolutely, without free will I don't think love can have expression.

My sole (or I might write intentionally 'soul') part of the explanation of 'belongingness' I think that is not as satisfactorily addressed in spiritual enlightenment by any means (whether chosen or sought out or 'fallen in to') is something Thomas Merton wrote about. He said that until he personally experienced love he never realized what full (or greater) meaning Divine Love entailed, consisted of, or essentially 'was' or 'felt'. I must agree there. Similar to what Henri Nouwen has also expressed or C.S. Lewis, or many others. That as you said there is an 'eternal longing' and a 'oneness' we belong to, or that exists and will exist. Therefore we are never 'home'. But it needs most often a 'human' face.I think life is created to be messy, emotions are messy, and they are meant to be messy. I believe that's how we may learn the difference between what we think we know cognitively and what we come to know in a deeper part of our hearts and selves.

Just speaking for myself personally, no matter how intimately connected I may feel (or not feel, yet therefore paradoxically be even more so) to that which is Greater, I have to live 'here'. As a child said "God needs arms". Whether it be because of my nature, or insecurities, or simply being tactile, to me 'belonging', 'giving', 'love' etc have to have roots and actions or a 'body' (not speaking literally) discernable to me. I can 'love' any person as a 'brother' or 'sister' more effectively (and get off my rear to do so) if I think of them as my own 'true' brother and sister than as part of an 'intimate One'. There are many 'ones' but if I lose sight of individuals and see them as a whole I accomplish nothing. Perhaps that's just me, perhaps I need what is tactile or smaller to maintain my concentration and focus. Does that make sense?

Because I think people become and are 'spiritually enlightened' in many ways. Steve Jobs said when he learned he was terminal it was the best gift in the world, he lost all fear, all sense of shame or hesitation. He said it was like being naked. I believe that that kind of realization and mindfulness and trauma as it were not only enabled him to live to the fullest, and humbly, each day, but I would venture a guess he felt a great sense of belonging and oneness with humanity, his own and others', going by his words.

 

[Valentino]

My eyes have been glazing over reading quite a bit of this thread!

Appreciate the honesty here, I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out how to translate and simplify very abstract and deep aspects of 'core existential desire for belonging', but at the same time address it adequately and not over-simplify that the meaning is overlooked or lost. In addition to this, I'm trying to translate it to others in a more personalized way, which is opposite from my own experience which is more impersonal.

But I know it's an impossible task, and I will fail miserably. But mistakes and failure are part of the learning process. And for whatever reason, my heart yearns for freedom of expression and the creative action that comes through communication. So I'll do my best to honor and accommodate my heart, even in the face of likely rejection, even if it comes in a passive form, which would be lack of connection with my fellow human beings on the other side of the computer screen.

Thomas Merton wrote about. He said that until he personally experienced love he never realized what full (or greater) meaning Divine Love entailed, consisted of, or essentially 'was' or 'felt'.

Excellent observation here, all the talk in the world is never enough to match the actual direct 'personal experience' of Love. There is a HUGE difference between mentally knowing something compared to full bodied realization. It is a big accomplishment to mentally understand, but until a person does the personal work, investigation, exploration, trial and error, etc. to finally reach a point with direct personal experiences that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, then that knowledge becomes knowing, it becomes truth realization. Then it's practical, pragmatic, and useful.

But direct experience typically isn't a short cut, it's not a way to bypass education and knowledge. They both go hand and hand, working together with each other; to attain truth realization.

That as you said there is an 'eternal longing' and a 'oneness' we belong to, or that exists and will exist. Therefore we are never 'home'. But it needs most often a 'human' face.

This is absolutely the way the majority of brains process Love, there is a prioritization towards human faces and other human beings. NeuroTypicals (Aspie term for typical brains (majority)) are born with a bias towards the personal, it shows up when babies have an attention bias towards their parent's face for bonding. Aspie and autistic brains typically don't have a facial bias, we can be fascinated by inanimate objects just much if not more than fellow human beings.

However to address this deep inner sense of lack (never home), and longing for Love and belonging. Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee offers a great personalized perspective of the human relationship with Love:

Steve Jobs said when he learned he was terminal it was the best gift in the world, he lost all fear, all sense of shame or hesitation. He said it was like being naked.

This is describing the freedom that can come from facing death and accepting mortality. Integral in traumatic suffering is being forced to face our limitation, vulnerability and mortality (Death Anxiety); unfortunately many PTSD survivors get stuck trying to fight or escape this raw reality; instead of surrendering to it, going through it, and getting transformed by it into freedom.

Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee's describing how Love is also highly destructive:

"Subtle degrees of domination and servitude, are what you know as love

but love is different, it arrives complete
just there, like the moon in the window

desire only that of which you have no hope
seek only that of which you have no clue

love is the sea of not-being
and there intellect drowns

this is the shoreless sea;
here swimming ends always in drowning

a million galaxies
are a little scum
on that shoreless sea."

~ Rumi - "Subtle Degrees"

-----

And to try to address more practical aspect of love and belonging, Michael Brown describes how Everything is Love in distortion, even fear, anger and grief:

My personal translations:
Fear = Love directed towards self & survival (I am most important NOW!)
Anger = Love honoring my boundaries and limits (I belong! I matter! I am worthy!)
Grief (Sadness) = Love of preciousness of life, Love of past old stories, current relationships and change (I demand freedom to adapt, be, and evolve)

 

[Tinyflame]

Thanks @Valentino , I see this is so. Funny, these things I have learned, and agree with (though the last video is toughest to grasp, but understandable).

Thanks! I like that first guy. I would call his first video The Definition of Peace. :) And Rumi and Hafiz are 2 of my favorite poets as well.

So perhaps 'belonging' is different for each person, whether it be as described in the last video (an attempt to 'create' it/ love), or rather a deeper need (existential) for belonging, which may be at the core of all belonging?

I like what the first video(s) said about post- trauma. I feel less defective. I mean that in a good way! :p:inlove: My sister used to say to me 'you are different, it's like you have one foot in this world, one foot in the next'. Other than requiring obviously long legs (! :laugh: ) maybe it's just 'me', and others experiences are different..?

Meant to say, has anyone seen the painting of the Prodigal Son (returns)? One of the father's hands has female characteristics, the other male. I think that is accurate and cool, similar to what is said here as well.

I've noticed more people on the poll have said they feel a sense of belonging in different areas, whether it simply be more votes or not.

:hug:

 

[Survivor2Thriver]

Trauma has a way of totally breaking open the heart, tenderizing it to a point of infinite softness and openness, but it's also an infinitely courageous heart that can endure more raw emotional energy than any normal human being can. We notice that the bigger heart feels pain and suffering more intensely, but that same bigger heart can also feel bliss, joy, freedom, peace, and love just as intensely and so more than our pre-trauma hearts.

To date..this is the best comment I've seen on this forum. Pain is energy. ~Fate loves the fearless.

 

[BLHutch]

I'm chiming in a little bit late here, but I really don't have a sense of belonging anymore and haven't for quite some time.