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Poll Where Do You Find A Sense Of Belonging?

Where do you find a sense of belonging?


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I need concreteness, examples, stories. I need things like: If a dog licks your hand and you're someone who responds to affection, you'll pat the dog. If you're someone who sees affection as a threat, you'll kill the dog. If you don't register affection, you'll absentmindedly go off and wash your hands. That's the kind of level I'm talking about. Rather than the theory of expressions of affection mind sets.

This feels very similar to how some Aspie's (people with Asperger Syndrome brains) create mental flow-chart like rule processing systems to explain unwritten social rules and codes of conduct. With poor theory of mind (ability to understand or guess what another person's mind is thinking) and blindness to subtle emotional and social communication, they develop very sophisticated rules and practices in order to better control their behavior in order to better interact within society.

Here's an example of rules to explain 'do not talk during class' that an Aspie student might develop:
1) Do not talk during class.
2) Unless the teacher calls on you.
3) Or unless it's group interaction time.
4) And if another student talks and doesn't get punished, that doesn't mean you can.
5) Absolutely never talk during tests.
6) Unless you have a question about the test, then you can talk.
7) Except if your question isn't what the teacher considers relevant, you're in trouble.
8) Also, do talk up if you're being bullied or there is a problem.
9) However, if the teacher doesn't agree with your opinion, you'll be in trouble.
10) Fortunately, if you break any of these rules, the teacher will remind you "don't talk in class".

Broken out like that, it seems (to a neurotypical) artificially complex. But that's how literal processing works.
I also have to compensate for my mind-blindness (social + emotional), but because I have a primary kinesthetic (feeling + experiencing) learning style, I become a sort of human data-miner. I collect tons of data observing patterns of human behavior, context (big + small picture), and explore raw emotions. It's a constant process of translating every experience and interaction, for my own understanding, but also translating in a way that others might better understand. None of this stuff comes natural to me, it all takes focus and effort.

So, for this discussion thread, the task at hand is trying to break down 'sense of belonging' into a more concrete and literal level of explanation so that you might better understand it.

But, sense is a feeling, and how can you concretely describe a feeling to someone else who might not yet have ever felt it???

That's like trying to describe what the color red looks like to someone who's color blind. Is it even possible?

It's a similar issue with belonging, which is a type of desire. And what is it for? I think it's desire for connection and relationship. Without that desire, there would not be any care or concern for belonging.

Now, how to describe desire or connection in concrete examples? It's hard to do, because they're also feeling based, coming from specific inner motivations, which can have infinite expressions of outward behavior.

So in the example of a dog: It is totally possible for a person to outwardly pet a dog with feelings of affection, but in a different situation kill a dog also with similar feelings affection.

Outward behavior can offer clues to inner motivation and feelings, but it's not a direct correlation. Human beings generally have highly irrational inner motivations and desires. That just can't be adequately explained through rigid concrete rational logic, it takes imperfect theories and abstract thinking to get closer to practical understanding.

But ultimately it might be impossible to fully understand. Human beings are simply too complex. Theories that are too rigid and simple, sound great in theory, but fail in practical application because people are too imperfect. Theories that are too abstract and complex are better for applying to all types of people, but it can also be near impossible to break down those big theories into practical application.

I suppose this is part of the ultimate journey towards self-awareness and self-discovery. And part of that is discovering a sense of self belonging, which can lead to an inner peace that surpasses all understanding.
 
@Valentino, I don't think you've understood my meaning. Perhaps that's because I didn't express myself well. I'm talking about concrete and you're talking about that as literal. I'm talking about examples and you're talking about that as rules. It seems to me that I tend to go to metaphor where you tend to go to abstraction.

Not all trauma therapists present theories in abstract ways. For example, in Peter Levine's book "Waking the Tiger" he explains trauma responses by talking about an impala being attacked by a cheetah. When he talks about the impala shaking afterwards, he doesn't have to cover all the other possibilities for the shaking - cold temperature, anger, present threat etc. The example doesn't have to be so literally precise. It's not a rule, only an example that explains something in a concrete way.

In a similar way, I study metaphysics and metaphysical principles are often presented through examples of behaviour. The examples don't have to be finely abstracted, and they don't have to stand up to rigorous testing. Their purpose is to illustrate, not to categorise.

I feel that, in the same way that someone who first experienced Criterion A trauma as an adult has a different emotional baseline from someone who first experienced Criterion A trauma as an under-five, each of us for various reasons can have different baselines for different aspects of ourselves. I think we need to work with our own baselines. There are going to be differences in our concepts that aren't misunderstandings or misguided interpretations. They're genuine differences.

For example, I think the reason that my fundamental way to understand things isn't language-based or through abstraction is that I didn't have language for the first six years of my life. How I describe a sense or feeling is through symbols, metaphor and experience (each of which is a kind of example) because that's natural to me and quite highly developed. To me, that's how it's do-able. If that's not natural to someone else that's OK. What it might mean is there's a limit to how much I can communicate with them over ideas. I think that's just something to accept.

I understand things intuitively, experientally, symbolically and energetically. You seem to understand things through theory and abstraction. We seem to frame things differently and that's fine. I don't think it's going to add anything to the thread to continue trying to communicate over this. A number of people here seem to understand the sense of self belonging that you're talking about, or have their own view of self belonging that makes sense to them, I'm happy to leave it there.
 
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Been working on different approaches and metaphors to try to bridge what might simply be opposite ways of processing life experience...

It's likely I will still fail to adequately translate my experiences and understanding into a way that may be understood by someone who primarily experiences through intuitive or instinctual means. But making mistakes and failure is part of the learning process. And trying to connect and understand people that are different than me, allows me to a wider knowledge and experience base. Allowing me to have an expanded ability of perspective taking, including more perspectives of myself. I feel that's important for me and can be helpful with communication, social interaction and sense of belonging.

I think that working towards better communication and listening skills enhances relationships, inner self dialogue and knowledge, and also would be a foundation for developing a strong sense of belonging.

I was reminded of this reading a blog article on Lynne Forrest's webpage dated 6/29/11, this article was included in her recent email newsletter. She is a teacher who covers the Drama Triangle and transforming victim consciousness. This is an excerpt from the article titled "Co-Creative Communication":
The best way to practice skillful communication is to be willing to set aside, for the moment, your own version of reality. Remind yourself that your truth is probably not the way they see it. Be willing, as the old saying goes, to “walk a mile in their moccasins”, by listening to them with total presence. Allow yourself to really hear what they’re saying and then mirror back only what you heard, rather than your interpretation. Too often, we listen only long enough to snatch a word or phrase that will serve to prove our point. We then jump in with our rebuttal, or accumulated “evidence”, without having heard them at all. Such defensiveness leads to assuming an offensive stance. We attack, thinking we are merely defending ourselves. If, on the other hand, we are willing to practice being safe listeners, then there’s a good chance that our partner will be able to relax and set aside their own affront long enough to return the favor.

Knowing our truth and speaking it, along with unbiased listening are the essentials for providing safe, honest and loving relations. As we consistently practice these things, our capacity for intimacy and creativity increases. As a result, we exude authenticity at all levels, which inspires others to want to participate with us in the art of co-creative communication.
Lol Valentino, I'm not sure the two of us could think any more differently. Not just in this post but generally. I'm not sure we will ever approach anything the same way!
We might be on opposite ends of processing experiences and thinking. You describe yourself as intuitive and concrete. I would describe myself as highly sensitive and deep.

Using the Left & Right brain hemispheres example, LEFT = OR thinking, while RIGHT = AND thinking.
OR thinking would be more black and white, while AND thinking is more gray area or colorful.
OR thinking is fast and decisive while AND thinking is slow and complex.

Let's try an analogy of the spectrum of camera lens focal length, there is extreme zoom, middle range focal length, and then ultra-wide angle.

The same camera taking photos of the same place but with different lens and focal lengths, the pictures can be vastly different.

My Aspie brain is over-sensitive to stimulus, this might be analogous to an extreme zoom lens. But it's a camera lens that's taking 5 to 10 times more photos than other brains. With all these zoomed in pictures, I then manually put them together like a puzzle, and then get the big picture. It can be a slow and tiring process, but the end result is that I have seen the big picture but also most all of the details.

Your brain which uses intuition (understanding things without proof or evidence), preferring concrete examples so you can quickly process experience. This might be analogous to a ultra-wide angle lens. With just one or two pictures, you can get the big picture. But often times it's easy to overlook the details, because the small details in the photo are blurry. It would take extra work to take more zoomed in pictures, and you still might not see what someone with a extreme zoom lens can see. So maybe you might overly use your imagination to describe those details you can't clearly see, because that's the faster way. You get good at guessing and getting pretty close, but maybe never achieving precise or certain.

The general public with normal brains would have middle range lenses, they can't zoom in and see as much detail as I can and they also can't zoom out to as wide angle as you to get the big story so quickly, but they have a little bit of both, and since they're the majority of brains, they can easily communicate and relate with other brains who have similar lens range.

So, when I read the examples that you gave as concrete thinking, they felt very abstract to me. It didn't feel concrete to me, as it's not enough information for my extreme zoom lens type of thinking. Concrete to many Aspie brains would be similar to a long list of literal rules, to my Aspie brain, it's hundreds or thousands of experiential feeling based data mining using observation and personal history. Your simple examples felt like little pebbles of rock, no where near feeling concrete to me, way too blurry.

But I can still work on trying to abstract out and create some theories for how your brain thinks, so that I can better understand and translate future communications. It should also be helpful with other relationships. Because your thinking style feels very similar to my oldest brother and my dad; who I'd both label as highly emotionally impulsive, and both of them do not have any trauma or abuse history or PTSD. My brother has been diagnosed with bipolar 2 but I feel he is more likely on the personality disorder spectrum.
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So back to 'sense of belonging'. Wouldn't that be more of a concept that is naturally abstract and theoretical? It doesn't feel like a concrete type of thing.
What's relevant here is that I reject far more than I feel rejected. It's not that the world feels unsafe, it's that I have little interest in it.
Which is probably why I can't relate to a feeling of belonging within, only a belonging where I can find a small pocket of something OK and fit myself to that. I really don't want to be here. I'm just trying to make the best of it.
I think one major issue that might be limiting you is your active rejection of others & things. When you send out energy of rejection, it's very difficult to get belonging and acceptance mirrored back.

It feels like you want to have your cake and eat it too. Get the positive benefits of sense of belonging, but don't want the responsibility, interdependence and emotions that can come with connection.

Is my interpretation of your stance wrong? I've read the similar comments in other posts of yours. But I could be mistaken as I am prone to take things too literally.

In closing, I did a lot of research for sense of belonging metaphors by exploring and feeling the emotions and meaning behind many old love ballads, and I stumbled upon "Hiding Inside Myself" by Kenny Rankin, which I think it really captures the isolation that often comes with PTSD. Maybe this is the price we pay when we lose our sense of belonging?
Does a love ballad fall more towards concrete or abstract? Metaphor or literal?
 
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The only place that I really feel like I can be myself is Forums that help me out with my issues. In the past I've tried to put myself out there through other ways, but I have such a hard time trusting others these days cause of what I've been through. Right now I feel safe through support forums that I can relate too. Outwardly I'm a very shy person & posting over the internet really does help me express myself better. In person however I seem to mumble a lot and not get through a sentence without being nervous or afraid of someone judging me. At the moment I can't even work cause of depressed I am which truly saddens me. Forums online is the only place I can feel comfortable in being myself without being judged or criticized.
 
Bravery is feeling fear and doing it anyway. That's how you become fearless. Fearless is ..the root of peace.

I always 'did it anyway' but neither felt brave, and definitely never became fearless. I have, in fact, become overwhelmingly fearful and exhausted, being well-aware and experienced in how bravery was not (never) enough (in my circumstance, JMHO).

I think peace for me must be something vastly different (for me). My acceptance of what I cannot do, that I am not brave, but hopefully not that that is the entire story nor end of the (entire) story, ultimately.
 
I do think that is a price paid with ptsd @Valentino , ptsd seems to go along with a sense of un-belonging.

Dear @Hashi, they say what is simplest is most difficult to grasp, or nearest most difficult to see. Perhaps it is very (deceptively and 'challengingly') 'simple'. Perhaps it is not entirely a 'where' question, as to a 'what'? Not abstract, very concrete. There has to be genuineness given, the connection that is being so must be, and then (perhaps?) acceptance of it (very difficult to do for many reasons post-trauma). Even the fear of accepting it, letting it get that close, or being 'real'. That as I can see it would apply individually between persons or in a very broad sense to what is 'wider' or deemed 'spiritual'.

Or something else that makes sense from your experiences. What do you feel or would you allow yourself to feel, be and do if you could remove any feelings of anger, fear, mistrust, disdain, etc? (Just giving examples, whichever feelings you can think of that might make sense to you). Does indifference 'feel' less fearful?

When all is said and done perhaps we just need to see if the feeling of belonging will come to us, or one day be able to say or 'feel' I belong or have a right to belong or I actually believe I 'do' belong.

Maybe that video is right, a 'sensitive heart' is where I can think of belonging, in another's, if I have seen it first as being sensitive and therefore more 'safe', in recognizing my own (it is sensitive), in my concept of a benevolent caring Higher Power (which I would see as the Utmost sensitive heart). But all of those do require an extreme act of vulnerability though.

(Btw, dear @Abstract thank you very much for your very kind words a ways back. :hug: )
 
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@Junebug. Everything you want is on the other side of fear. I was going to be abused either way. I chose to defy them. Eventually it wears you down and I didn't care what they did to me. Was I brave? Who's really to say. All I know is/was I didn't want to do a damn thing they wanted me to do. I stood my ground. That's ALL I had. Demanding me to stab my friend and attempting to kill me for my disobedience instilled my indomitable will FOR LIFE. That's a priceless gift. I can find beauty in everything. There's always a silver lining. I survived you survived that's to be celebrated!

Time is our most valuable asset. They don't get anymore of my time. Much less any fear for what they might or might not do or not do. I have peace and truth on my side. Peace and truth trump everything. It sets you/me free. "Fear" is what caused them to become the abusive idiots they are...may they wallow in it forever.



Meanwhile...so I have a few battle scars...I have a lot of work to do resolving body memories...I can do this...my beautiful life continues on in honor of everything my inner child fought for ...:)

In the end..that's all that really matters.
 
It is difficult for me to feel I belong anywhere. I put both that I don't have that sense and family. Only family would be my small little group, my husband and boys. I know I fit in there, but, sometimes, it is like any other group I'm around and I feel like I'm observing. I hate that feeling.

It takes me quite sometime to warm up and feel comfortable in a group. My son has the same issue. I believe my dad was the same. I don't get that immediate sense of connection that I see in other family members, or friends.

I use to work, and I do miss that camaraderie. Working I felt a sense of purpose. Not so much now.
 
In "real life" I have no sense of belonging. I sometimes find it on the internet, but sometimes feel even more rejected than I do in real life.

I find the most belonging when I am in a psychiatric ward. I don't know why. Also with my SO. But I met him at an NA meeting, so there you go. Almost everyone at those meetings has been hospitilized, so its almost the same thing, really.
 
I think 'belonging' is comprised of certain criteria others define, I think a 'sense of belonging' comes (or doesn't) based on whether one agrees with that criteria (in their heart), and then whether one wants to choose to align themself with it (or not).
 
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