Relationship Broaching Difficult Subjects With Sufferer?

[Hojay]

Hi,
I'm a supporter and fairly new here, but have learned so much from browsing already. Thank you!

I have a question about broaching difficult but important subjects with a PTSD sufferer. I've been with my boyfriend for a little over a year. He has PTSD from severe childhood sexual abuse that was latent during most of his life, but pretty much exploded when we became involved. (Lucky me.) It started when 3 months in I caught him in a lie/dishonesty about the extent to which he was in contact with other women in his life. He swears he has never cheated on me, but, so he says, as a symptom of his trauma, he's always had the habit of stringing other women along and engaging in strange power game conversations with women he knows would like to get involved. He is ashamed of this habit, and he claims meeting me has opened his eyes, causing him to seek out therapy and get a handle on his underlying issues. He swears up and down that he has ceased all communication with other women.

Fair enough. However, I'm now distrustful and hurt by his lying. I don't know half of what actually went on/or could still be going on, and I have deep seated urge to speak to him about these things. Needless to say, however, his relationships to women and sex in his life are a trigger - and every time I try to speak to him about it, trying to arrive at some form of status quo, he has a panic attack and freaks out. He says there are things he can't "tell me just yet" about his trauma that have something to do with other women/lying/cheating/the works. On the on hand, I believe him, on the other, sometimes I think he uses his PTSD as a cover for shady behavior.

I know that if I decided to stay with him, I should also decide to trust him. But it's hard when it's next to impossible to actually have a clear and honest conversation about things without him getting attacks and flashbacks. I don't want to keep triggering him, but I being a supporter is hard enough without feeling like there might be cheating involved. Can anyone relate to this problem of not being able to talk about quite important issues due to their triggering content?

 

[Silver.]

Cheating cannot be blamed on PTSD, that is just plain cheating, same for running games on people, that is a learned behaviour (probably indeed related to his childhood abuse).
You do deserve to be able to establish what makes you comfortable in the relationship. You need to set boundaries and stick to them, such as "we need to discuss a way for me to feel safe, for me to feel trust, if you try and back out of the conversation, I cannot be in a relationship where I am not trusting you"
Allowing him to get out of such a critical conversation is keeping you two at a standstill, because you cannot move forward until you feel trust. I do feel however, that while it is okay to talk about behaviours that are detrimental, there is no need to talk about his ex's. Ex's are ex's for a reason, they don't belong in current relationships.
Is he still acting shady? Or are you still carrying this mistrust from the third month you were dating? Or are there current things that he is doing that causes the mistrust?

 

[Justmehere]

Lying isn't a symptom of PTSD. Engaging in power games with other women is not a symptom of PTSD. Manipulating other women isn't a symptom of PTSD. It can be symptom of other very serious mental health conditions, and trauma can play a role in those conditions, but it's never an excuse.

He is manipulating other women as a game... that's what perps do. He could be rennacting past trauma by becoming an emotional abuser, but that's no excuse for his behavior.

And if he has the capacity and history of doing it with other women, he's likely doing it with you.

Symptoms of PTSD might be stirred up by confrontation or stress, but this doesn't seem like PTSD at all. He may very well have PTSD and a history of trauma, but this behavior that you describe is not typical of PTSD.

He has PTSD from severe childhood sexual Abuse that was latent during most of his life, but pretty much exploded when we became involved. (Lucky me.) It started when 3 months in I caught him in a lie/dishonesty about the extent to which he was in contact with other women in his life.

Chances are, the "habit" of manipulating other women, and having panic attacks when confronted about it, is something that started long before you. You were not confronting him about lying prior to 3 months into the relationship.

I think he uses his PTSD as a cover for shady behavior.

Based on what you have described, I would agree.

 

[Hojay]

Thank you @Silver and @Justmehere, for your answers. I agree, cheating is not a symptom of PTSD, neither is lying. The standstill regarding these discussions is exactly the problem, and the fact that I still have a strange feeling sometimes is key. I have been cheated on before, and I'm hypervigilant in that regard. Meaning, for me to feel safe I need to be able to broach small things I notice, whether they are actually signs of something I don't know, but the fact that I even bring these things up, throws him right into panic attacks with flashbacks.

For example, after everything blew up 3 months in, he deleted his Facebook account because he wanted to show me, himself, and these women that he would not be in contact with them anymore. He opened a new, inactive account for work purposes (I know he has to.) I recently saw that he engaged the Messenger feature on this account - this made me suspicious (is he again talking to other people? is it for work? is he still using it?) and I gently broached the subject. He said that he had downloaded it previously for work reasons but it's not installed on his phone anymore, when I pressed further, it didn't go so well - panic attack with flashbacks. When he calmed down he said that he was triggered by the thought that I would never trust him again after what happened, that he felt like he could say and do what he wanted and I would just leave him anyway. He felt powerless and unheard. Strangely, I get that reasoning, but there's a lingering doubt he panicked because he got caught in something. How on earth would I ever know?!

@Justmehere: Yes, he has spoken to me about the fact that he had been reinacting perp behavior with other women as a way to manage his symptoms. If he hadn't immediately entered intensive therapy, I would have run for the hills. If he had actually cheated on me, I'd have run for the hills. But his "relative" openness and commitment to getting better have given me hope. When you say this is not typical of PTSD, what do you mean? I know cheating and lying are not symptoms of PTSD. But maybe subjects that have to do with sex and shame could be?

My running theory is that being reminded of previous perp reinactments and/or shameful sexual behavior could trigger him, rather than the fact that he was caught. How would I know?

 

[loui50]

I agree with what the others have said. These behaviors are not PTSD symptoms. However I would like to add this:

He says there are things he can't "tell me just yet" about his trauma that have something to do with other women/lying/cheating/the works.

I have things i still have not told my husband and we have been together for 12 years. Mostly about suicidal ideation. Respect that he may not be able to talk about the trauma, but don't accept the behavior. You can discuss his current behavior without having to know the past. I hope this makes sense.

 

[Bloomy]

Ah yes - like reading about me when I was younger. Oh did I cheat. In the blink of an eye. And did I manipulate as others woud call it and lie? Oh yes that too. I was notorious. Totally screwed up I was. No body told me that I could do anything else, be anything else, act otherwise and so forth so I didnt have a clue. I manipulated and lied cause I guess I knew theoretically what was right, but not being able to perform right. So I was deeeply ashamed of my self and my inability to act normal and tried to cover up all the bullshit I did. Of course without any sucess.
So If any one says that this is not part of ptss Ill disagree. Its a complex picture.
Ive been abused so badly I didnt even think I had the right nor possibility to say no. I couldnt have any honest conversations cause I wasnt connected to my self. And therefor all the games they claimed I played. I can see that they thought so. People who know me from that time still say and belive I was a grand player and sleep around. But if people have invaded you as much as they invaded you then how are you supposed to learn that this is not how its supposed to be?

I was deeply hurt and wounded. Call me player means you didnt get the whole picture.

When it comes to you you can only be resposible for your self. I agree of what Silver says up here. I woudlnt have been togheter with a person like the one I was at that time. Not cause of the cheating and lying, but I was to disconnected to have a real relationship. I only ended up hurting people time after time after time not being able to do better.

I hope you work it out and wish you all the best.

 

[Hojay]

Thank you @loui50! Yes, lying and cheating are not symptoms of PTSD. But triggers relating to lying, cheating, and sex in general could be no?

I have absolute respect for the fact that there are things he can't tell me yet, or will never be able to tell me. If it's something that seriously impacts my relationship with him...well, I guess he'd be obligated to tell me, no? It could be anything from things that cause, I don't know, OCD to sex addiction. I respect his privacy, but there are some thing I'm not sure this applies to?

 

[Silver.]

Why did you press further concerning the messenger app after he told you he used it for work and then deleted it. What more were you hoping to glean from the conversation?
(not in his defense, but my phone has merged my regular text app into the fb messenger app, quite annoying actually).
To me, it sounds like the panic is just a ploy to stop him from talking about things. But I don't know you or him. I think it's great that he is in therapy.
Here is an example of how my partner and I create trust. Let's say he needed to grab something for work, like the app your s/o did, my s/o would tell me before he downloaded it, he would tell me why. We have never had mistrust in our relationship because we believe in transparency.
Do you think that you would be able to have a conversation with him to let him know that you are uneasy, and you need some level of transparency to feel safe again? Have you thought about couples counseling? If he hasn't shown you inappropriate behaviour outside of the text app, it seems that you are holding your past relationships cheating, and his past lies against him, which isn't fair when you are trying to move forward.
Both of you need to talk things out to move forward and perhaps couples counseling can help you do that, perhaps a therapist can help break him of his cycle of panic when talking about things and that might be just what you need.

 

[Bloomy]

My running theory is that being reminded of previous perp reinactments and/or shameful sexual behavior could trigger him, rather than the fact that he was caught. How would I know?

Yeah there is something here. Havent been to therapy but this rings some bells as Ive written above. Its all very complex and the more sexual abuse one has survived togheter with verbal abuse such as whore and things It reinforce the bad behaviour wchic agai you must cover up beacause all though you think its right you know its wrong and everything becomes dificult to distinguish.

 

[Hojay]

Ah yes - like reading about me when I was younger. Oh did I cheat. In the blink of an eye. And did I man...

Wow, @Bloomy, thank you for this. I have heard exactly these words out of my boyfriend's mouth. He's done with this behavior, he's in therapy. He wants a family with me, settle down with me, and he's willing to do the work necessary. I'm the first he told about the abuse and he wants to keep me as far away from his shady past as possible. I have a theory he gets triggered by my questions because it makes him hopeless he can ever be the man he wants to be in my eyes. Is that possible?

 

[Bloomy]

Interesting that you say you heard this exact things from him - wow I say too.

Yes yes I was not able to be that woman so better avoid this disturbing honest conversations that triggers. Had some good boyfriends but I was not worthy (and Im still not) to be with such nice person. Contaminated and destroyed. Who would want to give any love to some one like me?
I kept people away from my shady past cause they cant handle it. And I will be left with the burden of feeling utter more shameful then I did before I was stupid enought to open my mouth.

 

[Hojay]

Why did you press further concerning the messenger app after he told you he used it for work and then d...

I wholeheartedly agree, @Silver. We've seen a couples counselor together once - it was mostly about managing trigger situations though. I agree that we need transparency and open conversation, I also need to learn to manage my suspicions and not hold his lies against him. The reason I pressed on the app situation is because something about his response didn't add up + he seemed quite uncomfortable about the question. That's where it gets complicated: did he get uncomfortable because triggered or because he got caught? It takes a huge amount of trust for me, with my history, to say, oh you're just triggered. In that moment I wished he'd just showed me his phone to prove he doesn't have it on there anymore, I wish I could just ask to see his phone. But I know that's a slippery slope kind of dynamic.