Is it normal for a sufferer to feel paranoia and selfdoubt about civvies having a low opinion about you?

[Sweetpea76]

Did he have these behaviors before his Crit. A trauma?

 

[Never_falter2]

Before he deployed? No, he did not have the symptoms but he is unsure if it was traumatic enough to be a trauma. By the way he does not even have them always after “trauma“. It depends on how much negative stress he has... much negative stress: This way of thinking becomes really bad.
BTW I changed my last post to give more info.

So my question is: does it matter if this is a ptsd or and OCD symptom at @hithere says ptsd thoughts are broken up differently from OCD thoughts. What does this mean?

And my main question which was sort of lost in this thread (sorry my bad: how can one comfort a guy when he has such ideas like “everybody thinks I am deaf“ or “everything is full of germs“ @shimmerz says tell him how unlikely it is bad vet does say unlikely does not mean impossible.

 

[Sweetpea76]

Really, I don't think you can comfort him much if he's having these instructive thoughts. This is stuff he's going to have to work out in therapy. It's going to take some work.

Instead of just questioning his therapist about whether or not he has PTSD, has he asked her if it's possible he has OCD as well as PTSD? You can have both at the same time. She would be able to explain whether or not is displaying OCD symptoms much more accurately than people on the internet.

He's already got the diagnosis for PTSD and fits the criteria. I wouldn't question that anymore. His therapist may have told him she wouldn't discuss it again because he was focusing on it too much and not getting past it. A lot of people have a hard time accepting a PTSD diagnosis. A lot of people don't think their trauma was "bad" enough. Like @Friday says, PTSD isn't about a trauma "pain scale" it's not how severe/bad the trauma was, it is about a specific KIND of trauma.

 

[Freida]

Being a Vet with PTSD is tough because it means you are some how less than you were before. His problem with the diagnosis may be simple embarrassment that he is being told he is no longer strong. Which means he is weak. Which means he can't protect himself. Or others. Which means he is going to get people killed.

but then he had doubts and she did it again, but told him it was the last time she would discuss it with him because it wasn‘t good for him to keep discussing it...

This ^^^^ is soooo me! The first time my t said I had PTSD I yelled at her. Actually yelled at her. Because no - I was not that weak. I was not that pitiful. I didn't hide under the desk every time there was a backfiring car. Because that was what I thought PTSD meant. That it somehow made me less than what I was before. That it meant I had to be violent and scared and unpredictable. It took her about six months to get it thru my head that it didn't mean I was weak. It meant I had lived through something horrible and found coping mechanisms that worked then, but not now.
And I STILL do it. Just last week I told BOTH of my Ts that they needed to get better at their jobs because they obviously didn't know I'm lying about everything.

But how can one know if this is a ptsd negative idea about the world or an OCD negative idea about the world?

You ask yourself why it is so imporant to know the difference. The treatments are relativly similar. Or are you really just looking for a different label because one is somehow better than the other?

 

[Never_falter2]

Thank you so much for your support, ladies. I would be so lost without you. Makes me feel far less alone.
We used to think they are similar, than I thought people on this thread said the treatments differ but I might have misunderstood this.

What do you like others to do when you have those kind of thoughts like “they think I am deaf and crazy“ or “everybody is gonna die“ @Freida and @ other sufferers?

 

[Abstract]

I thought you had stopped doubting his diagnosed due to your stereotyping of what PTSD is Never_falter. As a result of all the other conversations you have had about that and the answers you received on here. Of course he will. That is almost par for the course. I think its pretty unhelpful if you encourage that at all. People have explained to you before that PTSD does not require the person to be "angry and violent". I'm more than surprised to hear you still expressing these beliefs after all this time and input.

 

[Never_falter2]

See, my problem is. OCD and ptsd are very similar, aren‘t they? For example hypervigilance, cleaning things over and over, checking things over and over, insomnia can be both, can‘t they? I have been told several times including on this thread that my vet has OCD not ptsd. I have been told so without asking.
Several people knowledgeable about this (military spouses and so on) told me vets always have a “fight response“. So what is the difference if not the fight response?

I totally do not encourage him to doubt the diagnosis. That is the other way around. He is doubting it more than me and that encourages me to doubt it.

 

[Freida]

vets always have a “fight response“

ahhhh! This may be the confusion bout the ptsd diagnosis -- the definition of "fight response".
Part of hyper vigilance is always watching what is happening AND being prepared to respond. So yes. I am ready to fight at the drop of a hat to protect myself and my loved ones from a threat. Push me into a corner and try to harm me or one I love and I'll come at you like a rabid badger. No thought, no planning, just flat out fight. And I will win or die trying.

But. That doesn't mean I'm violent. It means I understand what I am capable of and what I can use as a weapon in my environment ---IF I AM I REAL DANGER. And I constantly scan for that danger. So an argument with my hubby, or a road rage with a car on the street? No need to be violent -I'm not in true danger. I can scream and argue with the best but I would never actually try to hit someone. It's not part of who I am.
BUT.
If hubby hits me or someone runs me off the road with the intention to harm me? Yep - fight reflex will kick in. That's what makes me, as a vet with ptsd, different from a random person on the street. Random person would scream for help. Me? I'll kick your ass and then go get a coffee.

That could be the difference in the explanations that you are both struggling with. PTSD doesn't mean he is violent. It means he has a different understanding than most of what violence means and when it is necessary and he will use that knowledge if needed.

Does that help?

 

[Freida]

What do you like others to do when you have those kind of thoughts like “they think I am deaf and crazy“ or “everybody is gonna die“

ignore it - because you probably wont talk me out of it. My T sometimes can't talk me out of it - and she's got training! At this point hubby just rolls his eyes at me LOL. But. If I give you specific instructions based on what I'm thinking I expect you to follow them because chances are I am seeing something you aren't. Or I'm imagining I'm seeing something. So if I say - go in that door and turn left right now...just do it. We can sort it out later if it was true or not.

 

[shimmerz]

OCD and ptsd are very similar, aren‘t they?

Not in my mind, no they are not.

What do you like others to do when you have those kind of thoughts like “they think I am deaf and crazy“ or “everybody is gonna die“

I need them not to be validating those thoughts. The indecision is part of the symptomology.
1. My issues aren't 'enough' to have PTSD
2. Other people have it so much worse
3. See? I am better today. My therapist is full of shit
4. Nothing bad happened to me

It's denial. And what is best, in my opinion, so take it or leave it, is that you not hop on board with the indecision.

As far as I understand it he has been diagnosed with PTSD. End of story. Neither you, nor he, nor any of us, nor the man on the moon or god himself should be attempting to dispute or even support that diagnosis. Period. Because it isn't helpful and feeds the beast within.

If you want to help him get healthy, then encourage good health. Help him buy into wellness goals. Learn wellness tools. Support his recovery. Post about recovery ideas and concepts. Stop helping him pathologize himself.

PTSD, OCD, nobody cares. Wellness doesn't give a shit about diagnosis. It's only concern is making each minute of each day a work of art. An exercise in the choice to get well-er and keep well.

If you and he keep focusing on what is wrong it isn't doing either of you any good. You will just get dragged into the 'mental illness whirlpool'. That is NEVER a good thing. Help support his learning how to swim. It's a long and arduous life ahead of him if you guys keep focusing on what is wrong with him.

 

[Abstract]

I didn't read the beginning of this thread before. I didn't see anyone on here suggesting he had OCD instead of PTSD. He has been diagnosed with PTSD. He may or may not have OCD as well and if you are concerned the best is to see a psychiatrist for a diagnoses. You may well have had supporter conversations that I haven't seen but I haven't ever seen anyone say to you he doesn't have PTSD.

You have had people on here with a predominant fight reflex (who are not aggressive or violent) and are ex military explain to you before that your concept of what fight looks like in different situations isn't accurate. Him doubting his diagnoses is so classically PTSD it should almost be in the criteria. It sounds like his therapist has an excellent way of dealing with it. In the past you have again and again described classically PTSD things and been told by sufferers these are classically PTSD.

As for co occurring conditions and PTSD. This site is riddled with them. There is even a special forum for them. OCD anxiety disorders, addictions, eating disorders and a whole lot more. Ways to try to cope with the PTSD symptoms, trauma and fallout. Obsessive thoughts and feelings about having PTSD or what other think of them are pretty common.

It is totally logical to me that a proud military man would be projecting the shame he has about having PTSD onto other people. There are very few of us that are not profoundly ashamed at some point or other.

It might be helpful to think of these things as obsessive thoughts. From wherever they are originating. Obsessive thoughts are best not fed or indulged. Trauma related obsessive thoughts on the other hand may often need to be looked at and the feelings processed and explored.

His fears about others dying sound perfectly reasonable to me in context. They have just now become obsessive.

What does doubting the diagnoses do for a sufferer: It is usually a form of denial and minimising. Distancing from the reality of the trauma. It can be to do with shame about having the diagnoses and not being stronger, It can be a form of avoidance, it can be a result of unhelpful comments heard and internalised. etc etc etc. Personally I was in physical danger from myself with this stuff. You see this played out on the forum all the time. That is the sufferer though, who is stuck in the quicksand of trauma fallout.

PTSD and OCD are totally different things. PTSD is about real traumatic experiences that have not been processed and need to be healed and faced. OCD is about obsessions. Someone with PTSD and OCD tendencies may use traumatic experiences in the way they express their obsessions but obsessive thinking for those with PTSD, about trauma and related hypervigilance is really common.

 

[Freida]

What does doubting the diagnoses do for a sufferer: It is usually a form of denial and minimising. Distancing from the reality of the trauma. It can be to do with shame about having the diagnoses and not being stronger, It can be a form of avoidance, it can be a result of unhelpful comments heard and internalised. etc etc etc

this!!! ^^^^^ exactly