I can't possibly stand up for myself - It wont end well.

[Marvel545]

This actually ties into my other post, even though I didn’t see it at the time.

It appears that I’ve been looking at it pretty black & white. It’s not complete honesty vs hiding myself completely. Think there is a middle ground I need to find with this.

 

[The Albatross]

Um. Okay. But I'd reread what you shared cuz in my circles that's self sabotage and dishonesty.

 

[ms spock]

It is a hard thing to admit to oneself, even in a round about way, that the distressing relational issues are exacerbated by one's dishonesty or lack of ability to be candid and frank.

I am so here. This is such a big issue for me at times. I have a problem tuning into what I think and feel about a situation. It is entrenched conditioning from a terribly traumatic childhood, where staying in my body wasn't an option so I split myself off to the sexual/physical/emotional abuse and lack of care and love, and saving myself by being completely being absent in one form or another.

I would be absent in so many ways.
I would be absent by being dissociated.
I would be absent by being severely depressed
I would be absent by being be engaging in ruminations that overtake everything what is happening in this now.
I engage in obsessive thinking to block out people and situations
I would be absent so I didn't even get close to even considering what I think/feel/experience
I would be absent by being depersonalised
I would be absent by being derealised
I would be absent by being engaging in binge eating
I would be absent by engaging in eating to numb myself
I would be absent by being never being present in any situation as I am living in maladaptive daydreaming even whilst people are talking to me or engaging with me.
I would be absent by being running away
I would be absent by being avoidance by obsessively talking to block people.
I would be absent by overthinking everything.
I would be absent by being angry with other people.
I would be absent by taking sides.
I would be absent by saying what I thought people wanted to hear to ward off pain.

Terrified or not, the behavior to people please is an enmeshed dishonest response rather than a genuine choice because it keeps a person from actualizing wants/needs/desires or autonomy through choices or decision making.

I am enmeshed in dishonest responses. Though I do step out a hell of a lot more these days. I have made incremental small changes. I have improved a lot but I am still struggling with this.

Simply put, it keeps you small bro' BUT it also gives the incorrect info to your relationship peeps.

I think that giving incorrect information to my relationship peeps is why I can't have relationships/friendships with people long term, coupled with my fear of letting people know how I am. I am terrified that I will be found wanting. I am fearful of feeling what I feel.

Put on your thinking cap and determine how you are contributing to this by an inability to be honest and how you can be self sabotaging your peace, calm, okayness. Problem solve it and choose to endeavor to arrest the behavior so that you can say, No, or I'm not fine instead of "going along (and against yourself and your own wants/needs/desires) to get along."

I am working on connecting to myself more so I actually allow space in my life to feel and think what I am feeling and thinking. It is so hard to get here to that point though. It's a real struggle.

Boundaries will be tested. Consistency is the key to setting and maintaining healthy boundaries... but all that is for naught unless you get the ability to communicate honestly.

I don't know how to be consistent with setting and maintaining boundaries as I lose connection with myself so easily or don't have it in the first place.


This is a great thread @Marvel545. It is excellent to read what everyone is say. Thank you!

 

[ms spock]

If flat out no is too difficult to wrap your mind around... or it’s complicated by living with people... try a Yes+Condition.

These are the hot tips that I really need. I can get so flummoxed with feeling that there is no way I could ever say no.

It trains you to stop asking “How high?” whenever anyone says “Jump” AND gets the people around you used to the idea that you’re not 100% thrilled and available to chauffeur. What it does is give the other person a choice.

Giving the other person a choice - not just rolling over and giving way sounds like a solid proposal.

They have a choice between accepting the condition, deciding no that won’t work for them, or attempting to negotiate with you.

I may have to write this out and carry it around with me.

Time is a super common condition.... that people are very used to hearing / accepting, somit could be a good place to start.
- I can’t today, but tomorrow would be great.
- Anytime before 2pm today.
- As long as we can be back before 230.
- I need about an hour, before we can go.
- This morning, or tomorrow morning might work, but it would be better to go this afternoon.

This are all good ideas. I need to work to learning these types of comments/negotiations. This could really help me so much.

Yes, but... is another common one
- Sure, I can drive... but I’d rather you just took my car, today.
- I can, but if you could ask Jodi that would be better.
- Can Jodi drive you? She can take my car. Just put gas in it.
Etc.

These are other great negotiations. I just got stuck in freeze and fawn a couple of days last week.

 

[Freida]

I think that giving incorrect information to my relationship peeps i

I think there is a huge difference between giving incorrect info and not giving info in the first place.
I think of it like this....
Incorrect info -- flat out lying to avoid whatever it is you want to avoid
Limited info -- I'll give you the overview, but not the details
No info -- I don't want to discuss this with you so I won't. I don't have to explain myself - take it or leave it. It sounds a bit defensive but it's really not. It's setting the line where I am comfortable. It's much more important that I feel grounded by what I share than that I feel like I HAVE to satisfy other people's curiosity.

just a thought.... :)

 

[Friday]

@Spotted Pardalote Theres a really fantastic book 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey (It was required reading in our Communications class, or I’d never have picked it up, but daaaang do I use the methods and principles in my day to day life!)... that has at least one entire section on negotiating.

 

[ms spock]

I will get it @Friday. Thank you.

 

[Marvel545]

I could relate to so much of your first post in this thread @Spotted Pardalote. Could have written it myself.

It sickens me that the dishonest response thing is true, but it is. I don’t think the end result is brutal honesty either, it’s something like what @Freida said.

 

[ms spock]

@Marvel545 there is a line between tact, diplomacy, honesty and being candid, and we all have to find that for ourselves. My issue is that I don't actually have enough of a connection to my body, thoughts and feelings to know what it is I am experiencing. I am improving though. I respect that everyone's position around this is different, and we all have to find our own way. It's baby steps for me.

Which post do you mean that you could have written yourself? I am uncertain which one you mean?

 

[Marvel545]

I would be absent in so many ways.
I would be absent by being dissociated.
I would be absent by being severely depressed
I would be absent by being be engaging in ruminations that overtake everything what is happening in this now.
I engage in obsessive thinking to block out people and situations
I would be absent so I didn't even get close to even considering what I think/feel/experience
I would be absent by being depersonalised
I would be absent by being derealised
I would be absent by being engaging in binge eating
I would be absent by engaging in eating to numb myself
I would be absent by being never being present in any situation as I am living in maladaptive daydreaming even whilst people are talking to me or engaging with me.
I would be absent by being running away
I would be absent by being avoidance by obsessively talking to block people.
I would be absent by overthinking everything.
I would be absent by being angry with other people.
I would be absent by taking sides.
I would be absent by saying what I thought people wanted to hear to ward off pain

This post, in particulate this.

there is a line between tact, diplomacy, honesty and being candid, and we all have to find that for ourselves. My issue is that I don't actually have enough of a connection to my body, thoughts and feelings to know what it is I am experiencing. I am improving though. I respect that everyone's position around this is different, and we all have to find our own way. It's baby steps for me.

So true. I’ve been guilty of being quite black & white with this. It’s either been brutal honesty or dishonesty.

 

[ms spock]

I think that there is a middle path @Marvel545 where you can be candid and honest, when it is appropriate to those that are closet to you. There would be more to reveal in that situation. It doesn't mean revealing information or your trauma or your PTSD diagnosis at work, I would not do that, but I have to be honest and ethical about the way my students are treated. Then there would be circles of people - in other communities, at work, whilst doing community work, learning a musical instrument, replanting plants, working to save a species and habitat for extinction etc There would be conversations for your neighbours and local community at the local shops - that you might help out from time to time. For me boundaries for family - in my case that is a strict no contact boundary - no exceptions. They are too toxic. There are also boundaries you set in the case of people that you don't want in your life because they are not aiming for an ethical or community serving basis that you have chosen. Then there are people who have their strengths and weaknesses but they are working hard on themselves. Then there are other people - well they are not even owning their behaviours so there is no point with them. I truly work hard on myself and really that is tough going, and that comes from a deep place of honesty about what I need to do to contribute in the most positive ways that I can in my society. There are people that you can't assist or help and there are people that will appreciate a smile and a cake and a nice comment now and then. There are many graduations.

 

[Marvel545]

That’s a fantastic post @Spotted Pardalote

I’ve thought that I’ve had to tell everyone to live authentically, starting to see that isn’t strictly true. I’m not corrupted by having PTSD.

The boundaries set will differs from person to person.