Loving Dangerous People

[Survivor3]

I used to love dangerous people until id had enough of them because they were narcissistic and DANGEROUS. And when I left them they became even more dangerous and abusive because they couldn't stand the fact that someone really knew what they were like and would stand up to them. They were scared.

I now stay away from dangerous people. I don't want those pricks in my life.

give me nice and kind all day long.

 

[Sideways]

This thread was totally irrelevant to me and not a problem I have at all, happily keep scrolling Sideways, because:

Who do you love?

The obvious answer is "No one", amiright!? Cool, no problem. Hurrah, finally an issue I don't relate to!

Damn therapy.

While "Love" isn't a word I'm comfortable using (at all) I don't really feel an emotional connection with anyone except (drumroll) people who are dangerous for me, and to me. And them ones? I seem to headcharge into those ones like someone just hit my internal Self Destruct button.

Fixing it? Even just defining the problem, is a shiny brand new work in progress. Apparently I do need to follow this thread after all. Damnit!

 

[Juso]

I think I love traumatized people. Because all my exes and friends have suffered childhood and adult trauma, mostly both. But maybe everyone is traumatized? I just cannot tell.

When it comes to romantic relationships, I think I pick people who are similar to my mother (regarding anger issues, a dash of narcissism, disorganized attachment style, ect).

 

[coraxxx]

Actually I quite don't go well with people who haven't at least some understanding of trauma themselves. It's just being like behind a glass wall with them for certain things and having the impression (actually it's more than an impression) that they don't get it. They don't get it. And it's okay. But you don't have that sense of togetherness in understanding on that many levels I find. At least from my experience. But I guess that can change.

 

[Mee]

I don’t love many people.

I think a really important think for me is that kindness has been important to me in love and seeing lack of kindness has killed fondness or love for me . Sometimes I have felt something like love for people but their behaviour or actions was such that I felt unsafe, compromised or …. Maybe something as strong as repulsed by it - but I still have loved them. In those instances I have still created distance.

My husband is ‘good’ so far as people are good. You know the scam where a wel dressed woman asks for some money because her purse with her phone etc has been stolen and she needs to get home? Dh has twice had that happen to him and in both occasions been fairly confident it was a scam but still given enough money for a fare because he’d rather be scammed for the amount his supper would cost and go a bit short than be wrong and be one of the bystanders that let someone be at risk.

it’s also worth saying I thought my main perp was the same sort of person and in some actions he was .

My problem was I am waiting all the time to be proven ‘safe people ‘ don’t exist. Dh has not yet proven me right in twenty years - and maybe trusting him had let my guard down more?

I generally don’t think any of us can be safe all the time and of course there have been times DH has let me down in ways - but it’s not a pattern of behaviour it’s rare occasions. I think it makes me a little uncomfortable to not be the strongest link sometimes because it’s what I grew up as.

I want real people . People who grow. Who say ‘hey , I cannot do that , I’m sorry - what’s our compromise?’ And ‘ I got that wrong, I’m going to try to do better from now on- will you help me?’ And who accept the same from me. People who are self aware , honest and kind. people who are curious and self challenging are my favourite I think .

 

[Friday]

Whoops! Thought I’d responded already. Vexing >.< I hate it when I do that.

Apologies in advance for the novel*… The more I grok a thing, the fewer words I need. The more I’m working my way towards something / attempting to wrap my head around it, the more things get Santa’s naughty list, long. Also the more I’m curious how other people reconcile the same sorts of issues. Whether it’s like me, attracted to danger; or like my girlfriend who is attracted to something about musicians.

* Novel(s) As I’m splitting these posts up.

I have to confess, I find a certain appeal in that "I can kill you with this book of stamps" kind of person. But the "hurt you or others just for the fun of it" type? Them I want to stay way far away from.

How are you defining "dangerous" @Friday ?

Dangerous Defined… Not as a bad thing. Nor as a good thing. Simply as an acquired set of skills, &/or personality.

When I was trying to be “normal”? I don’t know that I classed it as a bad thing then, either. I was just attempting to do everything differently. Playthings, playgrounds, playmates.

So instead od seeking out people I could trust to have my back? I started deliberately avoiding the accustomed to & trained for violence, thing. Deciding that it “shouldn’t” be sexy, relaxing, much less on my list of basic requirements.

((Basic Requirement = That anyone I date ALSO has to have experience with violence AND that it/they fit within a very narrow window of morality surrounding it; what they enjoyed, what they were willing but only under XYZ conditions, and where their limits were, essentially something that mirrored my own. They didn’t have to “be” me; there just needed to be a shared definition of what’s kind, what’s cruel, what’s funny, what’s cherished, what’s unsat, & what’s necessary. And the willingness to act on those things. Similarly, the understanding that most people arrive at those limits by going past them? That there was clear evidence in the present that they did things differently, now. Rather than just talking about what they wanted …UNLESS they were literally talking about wanting to, rather than claiming that they did. Because that’s a very honest place ro be in, as well.

This didn’t just apply to romantic liaisons. As a fantastic & totally common example of type? There are a gazillion and seven grocers in Rome. The one I naturally took to, & became fast friends with? Come to find was known as a people smuggler for decades. This huge ole Santa of an old man… Fetching people out of Yugoslavia / Albania / from behind the iron curtain in the 70s & 80s. Which I found out because his little fishing boat needed some work, and his sons were away, so I volunteered to help one night (as we were sharing a glass of wine as he closed up his stall and I bought things). I didn’t expect boat maintenance the following weekend to turn into his wife feeding me more than I’d eaten in a week -I was fairly new to Italy at the time, or I should have expected that- nor both of them growing nostalgic about the bad old days, over acres of food, a never ending open “bottle” of wine, and the need for secrecy long past. So out of all the grocers in Rome? Who do I naturally gravitate to, knowing nothing of his past? Yep. Enzo. Of course I did.))

It was a complicated little mental/emotional algorithm… no different from any other important aspect in the getting to knooooooooow you . I thought that by nixing it, I was actually nixing violence and danger from my life. Instead? I simply wound up like a babe in the woods; not understanding what I was dealing with. >.< Still attracted TO danger, but a danger I couldn’t/didn’t recognise, much less trust, & rely upon to be similar to my own.

 

[Friday]

.

Is it that you love dangerous people, or that you just love fine people who happen to be dangerous?

I thought it was the first… until I met/married/divorced my ex-husband. Who was one of the least dangerous people I’d ever met. I’ve known corpses and enfants who were more overtly threatening (and had more honest intentions) than he was.

But you’re right, excluding him.

I think??? that I’ve just reconciled / a, in the process of reconciling, the fact (probability) that anyone I could/would/might love… WILL be dangerous. My not recognising & aligning or opposing -IE Understanding- their innate tendencies? Just means it’s a different kind of danger, than I’m used to. One that I don’t understand, have experience with, or can trust my judgment on.

It’s the John Watson effect? Paraphrasing “You were a doctor who went to war. You're a man who couldn't stay in the suburbs for more than a month without storming a crack den, and beating up a junkie. Your best friend is a sociopath who solves crimes. That's me, by the way. (waves hand) Hello. Even the landlady used to run a drug cartel. Of course the woman you fall in love with used to be, is, an assassin. She is who she is… because you chose her, John.”

Trying to stay away from an either/or mentality? That’s still where my head is at.

I can either choose dangerous people, who are dangerous in ways I understand; assess, respect, & trust my judgment on… bringing that complicated little equation back INTO my life, requiring that anyone I partner up with is a full partner who has my back. Or? I can roll the dice, again, like I did with my ex, blind to the dangers he represented.

Again, not really fond of the either/or place my head is at… I’m fairly certain there’s middle ground? Just not sold, I suppose, on the middle ground being a good thing. As I LIKED the people I befriended and loved, back when I had this very high bar requirement. Meanwhile removing it led to very mixed bag results. Yes, my life got infinitely less complicated (for awhile), as I was no longer running with “drop everything, this is important” at all hours of the day/night people. Which was an important thing to me, as a new mom. I didn’t wanna be hauling my kid into places angels fear to tread because there was stuff needing doing, and not only did I know the people doing the doing, but could help, and was expected -by those people- to help as a matter of course. Nor did I want to be faced with making a decision to leave him to do so. And that’s what taking people out of my life who would have my back, did. It also meant no one was relying on me to have their back. Which simplified things. For awhile. But also led to not having anyone I could trust on my 6, in my life. And it led to my replacing a known quantity, with an unknown quantity. Which could have worked out, if I’d been lucky? It just didn’t happen to work out. And things got dark -and complicated in whole new ways- fast.

I don’t think it’s insane to try and change my own life by changing the people in it… but I think I went about doing so in a very naive way. Because changing my LIFE is one thing, but changing my NATURE? Is a whole other thing.

So if I take my nature as met? That the people I’m capable of loving are all dangerous in their own way… it follows that I need to be careful in my choices. That it’s danger in a way that I can trust, understand, & respect… rather than danger I can’t even recognize AS danger.

 

[Mee]

I like scout’s question and your answer. ‘Dangerous’ and ‘heroic’ are on the same spectrum aren’t they? Eg - your Roman? Depends which side of geo politics one was on how he was classified. It changes my answer and perspective on your question somewhat.

 

[Freddyt]

It’s the John Watson effect? Paraphrasing “You were a doctor who went to war. You're a man who couldn't stay in the suburbs for more than a month without storming a crack den, and beating up a junkie. Your best friend is a sociopath who solves crimes. That's me, by the way. (waves hand) Hello. Even the landlady used to run a drug cartel. Of course the woman you fall in love with used to be, is, an assassin. She is who she is… because you chose her, John.”

Disinhibited Social Engagement Disorder?

Usually happens in children but that doesn't preclude it from happening in an adult.

• intense excitement or a lack of inhibition over meeting or interacting with strangers or unfamiliar adults
• behaviours with strangers that are overly friendly, talkative, or physical and not age-appropriate or culturally acceptable
• willingness or desire to leave a safe place or situation with a stranger
• lack of desire or interest in checking in with a trusted adult prior to leaving a safe place, or in a situation that seems foreign, strange, or threatening

 

[Friday]

I like scout’s question and your answer. ‘Dangerous’ and ‘heroic’ are on the same spectrum aren’t they? Eg - your Roman? Depends which side of geo politics one was on how he was classified.

Right??? The reasons why people are doing things, matter. Sometimes more than their actions, sometimes not at all in the wake of their actions (intentions, roads, hell)… except to those who love them. Where those reasons define character.

Disinhibited Social Engagement Disorder?

Usually happens in children but that doesn't preclude it from happening in an adult

LOL… Nah. Just something that resonated about how people are complicated, but how their personality shines through the choices they make in life.

 

[pamcoco]

Aside from my family… I don’t know that I’ve ever loved anyone who isn’t dangerous.

Wow, I really relate to this, although my family was, has been and always will be the epitome of danger I seem unable to escape in everyone else. Last night, I weeded the final family member, my mother. The past 2 years cohabitating has reunited me with my young self, neglected, abused and punished for everything that doesn't please. Alone, even when lonely, is better than this. Done.