Pity Parties

[Meadowsweet]

The points raised in the original post are valid, however; an additional argument not presented is that confronting sometimes needs to be harsh, especially in therapy.

When I write a post, I write it to learn something that I don't understand. I think this was something that was brought into the discussion quite early on and I have already responded with some agreement to it in several posts (#23, #35 etc).

It has been interesting to hear other peoples points of view, because it something that I have believed in quite strongly in the past, but I have pulled myself up on in more recent years. I've done so partly because I became to sensitive to the responses that such honesty can create. And partly because the split between my intellect and my emotions has caused me to feel less confident in my intuition to recognise when it's ok to take that approach and when it's not.

But, Albatross used the argument earlier in the thread that the use of this phrase can be judged on the intent of the person using it. If you are using it as an expression or irritation, then perhaps it isn't said wholly to help the other person.

Intuiting intent in a written format is dicey at best.

I agree. But the quote of mine you were commenting on was a direct response to another poster saying that they use the term when 'frustrated' and 'exacerbated' at someone they are trying to help.

I don't disagree with expressing that frustration either. But it differs from the argument for the term being used with a therapeutic intent if the user is saying it out of frustration. That's the differentiation I was making there.

The practise of looking at why we feel how we do is good practise. But it applies to everybody and anybody. Not just those who need therapy, but all human beings.

(This isn't aimed at anyone in particular), but like I said at the beginning of this post. I wrote the thread because it was something I felt I needed to discuss with others in order to learn and find some understanding of different perspectives.

So I listened and took the time to consider other peoples perspectives. Now, next time I hear the term pity-party, I might consider if the user is just using it in the wrong context. But I think it will cause me less worry.

But if people are using the thread because they're getting annoyed with anyone with a different view, then couldn't you step back from your own argument for a moment and consider why it is so emotive and also whether there is more than one valid viewpoint.

I wrote the thread to learn, not to complain and build two camps of black and white views.

I know it's up to others how they use a thread. But I wanted to say, because I don't want to be associated with the right/wrong approach. That isn't what the thread was intended for.

 

[Nicolette]

I agree. But the quote of mine you were commenting on was a direct response to another poster saying that they use the term when 'frustrated' and 'exacerbated' at someone they are trying to help.

I don't disagree with expressing that frustration either. But it differs from the argument for the term being used with a therapeutic intent if the user is saying it out of frustration.

May I explain myself better as you are referring to what I wrote?

The 'intent' is still well intentioned and one where wanting to help a person is the aim however the 'frustration' and 'exacerbation' is reached when ever polite, tip-toeing carefully worded responses are used to raise the issue and still the replies are one where what is written with intent to uplift the person is manipulated into something which continues to be negative.

Meadowsweet my impression is that you look at key words and focus on their meaning. Based on what I am now reading I would suggest that the questions you needed answers from me for before coming to your conclusion were 'frustration' and 'exacerbation' from what - and the answer is that is trying to help someone to the point where they drain you but still continue wanting reassurance or responses.

 

[Meadowsweet]

Based on what I am now reading I would suggest that the questions you needed answers from me for before coming to your conclusion were 'frustration' and 'exacerbation' from what - and the answer is that is trying to help someone to the point where they drain you but still continue wanting reassurance or responses.

I'm concerned about how you will take this. But what you mention here isn't something I'm unfamilar with.

If you are frustrated and feeling drained, then you need to step back from the role of helper.

I accept that in the case of a partner or child stepping back is more complex. But in the case of someone on a forum, it is simple, you step back and deal with your own needs before you attempt to help again.

The perception that someone still wants reassurance or responses is not a reason for you to get drawn in. You are responsible for your own choices and how they make you feel.

 

[The Albatross]

I can't believe it but you finally got it "You are responsible for your own choices and how they make you feel." Your perception that someone is slighting you is not a reason for you to be drawn in.

Who among the responders in this discussion are good willed people? Who if any to you perceive to be attacking? What is your rational basis for deciding that? What does your experience with forum posters here say?

Case closed.

 

[Meadowsweet]

It's what I showed from the very start of this thread albatross. I began with a rational after some weeks of looking at myself.

I shared it because I want to listen to people in a place of equality. Not have somebody be my helper.

I was responsible by writing the thread in the first place.

But you have not respected that ot the demonstration of what I am learning a lonmg the way.

So take the credit for mer learning if you need to. But I don't approve and you are not my saviour!

 

[The Albatross]

But you have not respected that ot the demonstration of what I am learning a lonmg the way.

So take the credit for mer learning if you need to. But I don't approve and you are not my saviour!

Last time I checked, I was candidly espressing my personal experiences with a term I am familiar with in recovery circles. My experience significantly differs from yours. I chose, to share it... not debate it. You are free to learn from it or not. I'm not interested in saving anybody... but you put this discussion on a discussion thread and not on your diary or chit chat. Had you done so, I might have been inclined not to discuss.

You march to your drummer, I will march to mine and to thine selves we'll both be true. I did though fail to remark on your comment about our "argument" because I thought it sidelined the larger topic and would not be useful in a discussion. But I did sit up and take notice of your use of the term. Touche'.

But all that does is support my case... some people would rather perceive other issues than the matter at hand. Your perception is not my problem.

 

[Nicolette]

The perception that someone still wants reassurance or responses is not a reason for you to get drawn in. You are responsible for your own choices and how they make you feel.

As are you!

And if that person is someone close and dear to you? I believe you still do not see such a comment as helpful but to me it has its place and purpose and sometimes is. That's my opinion and its my choice to believe it based on the shoes I have walked in throughout my life. I used to have pity parties when at my lowest point and in my opinion I wish some of my friends would have stood up and told me as I was blind-sighted by my own black hole. When one did it was a rude shock, I did not like what I heard, but when I calmed down it led to self reflection and then brought about change as I didn't want to loose my friend but I was pushing everyone away while seeking pity.

Meadowsweet you don't know me so I will tell you this - I come to this forum every day with the intent of sharing what I have learned hoping I will help someone; just one person.

Maybe you and I will just have to agree to disagree as I don't see anything wrong with my views based on all my experience (and yes I have been through more than my share of trauma) - Yes I do have experience to back up my views. It's not about being right or wrong - my intention is good and heartfelt. If it doesn't sit right with you I'm sorry but at this point I stand my ground until someone can show me good cause to change.

Yes I have the choice to walk away on a forum but I also have the choice to share my opinion. Thing is, I wouldn't walk away from a struggling friend but would, after every attempt of compassion and kindness put some tough love out there if all else failed.

 

[Nicolette]

Did the user of the term truly mean to help? Or was it their own (and therefore selfish) reaction of annoyance that prompted their need to use the term.

I guess that is when you have to ask for clarification if not obvious. Again, you take what you want from this forum, no-one makes you take another's opinion on board. Also, as I said above, you can dig deeper as while you may see 'annoyance' that may be due to or the result of ongoing, well invested, positive replies to which all are refuted by the person being negative. I have not used the word 'annoyance' - that is your interpretation as I used the words 'frustration' and 'exacerbation'. To me there is a difference.

What I am reading and don't find reasonable is that if a person has a feeling it is deemed selfish when the receiver does not like the response. Have I understood that correctly?

 

[Shellbell]

This is really descending into a 'who will have the last say'. It's not achieving anything.

I agree that we need to just agree to disagree.

I really think everyone has had their say and anything further is just going round in circles.

Let's just accept that we are all here trying to find help for ourselves and we are all helping and supporting each other.

 

[anthony]

I wrote the thread to learn, not to complain and build two camps of black and white views.

You haven't done anything wrong Meadowsweet. This type of thing is nothing new from what I've seen over all these years. People come to a community, they form bonds and such with other members, who typically have the same ideals as them. Then what those members do is only view their aspect, their belief, as the right belief. The only belief. The only way it can be. Nothing will change that. It is just the way people work.

You see it every day. People group to like minded, like dressed, like themselves people. Here is no different.

You won't ever get such a person to see more views than their own, who simply don't want to, because their view is all they can envisage / know. Why do you think I stopped answering questions directed at me. Then more word smithing of my own words, changing a statement about responsibility to power, to paint a slightly different, emotional, context of a statement made. That provoked a further member to state their validity of equality, which there was never doubt prior.

You haven't done anything wrong, so please don't take anything negative away from starting these topics. Let people own what they own, and wipe your hands with everything else. I do it every day here... teflon, it just all slides off.

 

[piratelady]

I didn't read the whole thread, there was just too much. I do want to say though - I personally hate the term "Pity Party" just because of how it was used towards me when I was younger. That being said, I truly appreciate it when someone calls me on my wallowing. Sometimes, if we fall into a depressive state, it is easy to get stuck there. Then someone tries to comfort you and coddle you. That just feeds more into the depression. It almost justifies it (for me at least).

Now, to have someone say to me, "You know what, yeah, life is shitty. Stop wallowing and do something about it" is much more beneficial. Sometimes the only way I can bounce back is with a swift kick in the ass. Now if they used it as an opportunity to tell me how much I suck, then that is different. The intention, to me, means more than the words.

Sorry if what I've said is more of what was already said. I just felt like I wanted to say something.

 

[Nicolette]

You haven't done anything wrong Meadowsweet.

Agreed. I may have a differing opinion to you Meadowsweet but that does not make any of what you said wrong - it is your own truth.

Everyone will not always agree - that often does not even change their opinion on you; it just highlights a difference you have and sometimes you have to agree to disagree. If it is within a relationship that can change things somewhat but again I don't agree with all Anthony does and says but it doesn't make me love him any less. I wanted to highlight this as I don't want you to think that just because I disagree on this topic I don't value or respect (even agree with) other things you have to say. :hug: