Forgiveness - Is This A Necessary Part Of True Healing From Abuse?

[Philippa]

Actually animals are very sensitive creatures and if you mistreat them they can take years to heal from the damage. I was a zoo keeper and I had to work with animals that had all range of mental health conditions right through to self mutilation from captivity related issues.

I'm not saying they don't experience long lasting trauma, and I realise they are very sensitive. I just think they don't seem to hold a grudge about it, or want revenge or any of that sort of thing that people do.

Did the animals you worked with seem stuck in the past, or unable to move forward emotionally? I guess it would be very hard to tell that, given that we don't actually know how animals experience emotions, or if they feel things the way we do?

 

[Srain]

Edited by SRain

 

[ms spock]

I'm not saying they don't experience long lasting trauma, and I realise they are very sensitive. I just think they don't seem to hold a grudge about it, or want revenge or any of that sort of thing that people do.

Animals can become fear biters if they are badly treated and it can take along time to get over it. Some won't.

I have seen an elephant that definitely wanted revenge on someone that was mean to her.

And parrots certainly hold grudges against people who treat them badly.

 

[Philippa]

Magical thinking that our abusers will 'get theirs" is not based on reality. This is patently not true. I think this is not helpful in the healing process.

I also think that a lot of people use this as a cop out rather than dealing with reality. I can't see how this is helpful for acceptance and letting go. For me it bleeds right in to denial, disassociation, derealisation, depersonalisation and so forth. This is where people act out in relation to their perpetrators without realising that they are doing so.

I hear what you are saying here, Ms Spock, and I can understand how this concept would be infinitely unsatisfying to anyone who has experienced real abuse. The idea that someone may 'get theirs' at some point down the track, or in another lifetime does not help anyone dealing with the effects of abuse.

People say these things to try and make others feel better about their position and situation, and to make themselves feel better and more comfortable, like it is not true that it is an unjust world and eventually people will pay. There is no real way of knowing whether this is actually the case.

The fact that CEO's can get away with all sorts of corporate atrocities, and not seem to ever have any repercussions on them is a very good example of why that phrase can be ultimately a slap in the face. People getting thrown in jail who didn't do anything wrong, and end up being killed there, whilst the real criminal gets away with it and may go on to become a millionaire and never seem to have anything bad happen to them used to really stump me as a teenager.

The concept of karma can help some people get through their hardship, but for others it is cold comfort and almost insulting, and I can see how it woul dnot help that type of person in the healing process.

 

[Philippa]

Animals can become fear biters if they are badly treated and it can take along time to get over it. Some won't.

I have seen an elephant that definitely wanted revenge on someone that was mean to her.

And parrots certainly hold grudges against people who treat them badly.

Wow, that's really interesting.

Actually, now that I really think about it, my father's dog used to give me the dirtiest looks, for MONTHS after I tricked her into having a bath (which she absolutely hated). Everytime I walked past her she would give me this look and never came near me after that.:laugh:

 

[ms spock]

Did the animals you worked with seem stuck in the past, or unable to move forward emotionally?

Some animals can never have hands near them again after being tortured by human hands. Some animals will engage in stereotypic activities (obsessive and repetative behaviours) and can never be stopped from doing them.

Some animals will continuously self multilate and begin again when any thing resembling that trauma arises in their area.

 

[Srain]

I can understand the concern that this might become a debate over religious beliefs but I truly don't believe it is. I have beliefs but the word "forgiveness" can be used in many ways, I forgive many things, for many reasons, calculated child abuse on any scale is not one of them. It's not for me personally but a general belief.

I often questioned the need some of my friends had for me to forgive my abusers.

I had no problem if others found comfort in doing so, it was just not something that fit for me.

 

[ms spock]

Wow, that's really interesting.

Actually, now that I really think about it, my father's dog used to give me the dirtiest looks, for MONTHS after I tricked her into having a bath (which she absolutely hated). Everytime I walked past her she would give me this look and never came near me after that.:laugh:

OMG you bathed a dog! You wild dog bather you! LOL

Can you imagine if it is real, long, sustained abuse?

I once saw a horse kick someone that had hurt another horse out in the training area.

 

[Philippa]

I know:sorry: There's nothing worse than getting the greasy looks from a dog...nothing.

That's pretty cool that the horse stood up for his/her friend.

 

[ms spock]

I often questioned the need some of my friends had for me to forgive my abusers.

This is a really important insight. There are many implications on an intergenerational level, for me, about this type of social pressure.

 

[Shellbell]

I have not said it is wrong, I have not said it is not healing if you do not have forgiveness. There is healing without it, absolutely. I feel there is a different between healing and true inner peace. But that is my opinion only.

I'm not being judgemental, just working through observations. There is a difference. That's why I said 'some' and not 'all'.

For some it will be necessary to fully let go and move on, for some it won't. That is because each person's path is different. And that's okay.

 

[Philippa]

I often questioned the need some of my friends had for me to forgive my abusers.

I had no problem if others found comfort in doing so, it was just not something that fit for me.

I think it would have been partially that whole programming, where everyone HAS to forgive their parents, since...well, "they're your PARENTS" as if you have to or something. But also, your friends might have just wanted to see you be at peace and feel good again, which many people expereince when they finally are able to forgive someone who hurt them.

There are different levels of hurt though, and I can definitely see how at a certain level of abuse, the idea of forgiveness is just a joke.