Torturing Animals

[Dissociated1]

I am at the point in therapy my psychologist calls the “dirty middle.” Things I haven’t thought about in 40 years have been flooding my brain like a tidal wave. This weekend I remembered going though a phase in early grade school of torturing animals. I don’t think it’s appropriate to go into details, but it was very enjoyable to me- I can remember sitting on a bucket eating a peanut butter sandwich watching our neighbor kill/slaughter his cows like it was Saturday morning cartoons.

I had always been under the assumption that all little boys go through a phase like this and I casually mentioned it to my wife. A look of horror in her eyes, she sternly replied that NONE of her three brothers or anyone she knew did anything like that.

The why’s of this behavior have been running through my mind since the conversation I had with my wife. I cringed when I also remembered going through a similar phase with my drug addict roommate's cat before we were able to have him evicted and later with my first wife’s cat after she was killed by a drunk driver.

I plan to discuss this with my therapist when I see her today but I was wondering how many others may have gone through a similar phase and if you have any idea of why?

 

[Jen93]

I remember having odd hallucinations of me stabbing my brother from behind when I was angry at him... (like I was angry at him and it'd look like I'd come up behind him and stab him with a knife with a really cruel twisted smile on my face...) but I was horrified.

Lately I've been having dreams of my ex-nanny stabbing my little brother to death, but I always try to pull her off and she's furious.

They aren't flashbacks... they're more like daymares? and I don't enjoy them, they scare me. But I looked like I was having fun... I don't know if this is similar at all...

But it seems to sort of be like (well for me) the whole repressed anger stuff. You can't tell people that you're angry, so you just imagine something happening to them. I think it's the way that your repressed emotions try to be unleashed... in a non violent way.

If you weren't able to get angry at other people, hurt the people who hurt you, it was probably seen to you as safe to watch someone else torture an animal. You weren't hurting it, and nobody was hurting you for watching it. (I'm not 100% positive though, but that's my take on it.)

Interesting topic.

 

[Philippa]

I haven't experienced this no...and it is a disturbing subject, but I have heard about cases where children who were badly abused sexually and physically, projected their intense rage onto animals, as a way to feel powerful in an otherwise powerless reality.

I can't say for sure that this is why you did what you did though.

I do know that killing and torturing animals is a well known profile behavior for serial killers though.

It isn't a conversation I have ever had with anyone who willingly admits to this behavior...though I do admit that my own brother used to treat our cat and dog quite cruelly at times.

One time he picked my cat up by her tail and swung her around his head and then threw her at the wall...the day after she had been spade, so she was very sore. It was terrible. He was horrible to the dog as well, and animals in general don't trust or like him...which I think says a lot about a persons character.

It's good that you are willing to try and understand where these impulses came from though.

 

[maddog]

Notwithstanding the point of your original post, there is one point in particular I wanted to comment on, as I think it requires some clarifying and perspective.

Watching your neighbour kill/slaughter his cows as though it was no big deal is in no way necessarily indicative of cruelty to animals or any propensity for it. I grew up on a cattle property and we routinely butchered our own cattle for meat, as well as, of course, being in the business of raising them for transport to market for slaughter. We also raised pigs and chickens specifically for slaughter and would carry out these acts routinely and without any sense of them being other than normal.

For children raised in the country and exposed to such normal practices, there is nothing unusual about them, nor is there anything cruel or inappropriate about the behaviour. It is unfair for anyone to assume that being unaffected in the presence of such routine farm conduct is anything to be concerned about.

Sorry to seem a little pedantic, but it always bothers me when people automatically judge such behaviour and equate it with animal cruelty, which it most certainly is not. I was assisting in the slaughter, gutting, skinning and cutting up of cattle from as early as I can remember, and was never phased by this. I in no way consider I have ever been cruel to an animal and do not consider my behaviour to be indicative of this.

Just wanted to add that clarity to your memory and to assure you that it doesn't mean anything if this was a normal practice where you grew up.

Maddog

 

[Philippa]

Watching your neighbour kill/slaughter his cows as though it was no big deal is in no way necessarily indicative of cruelty to animals or any propensity for it.

I can see how that would not be a big deal out in the country, where this is a daily practise...though I do wonder if being entertained by it "as if it were watching the cartoons" is really the same thing?

 

[Dissociated1]

Thank you for clarifying, maddog. The torture I describe was horrible cruel things I maliciously did to animals. I described my reaction to the cow slaughtering to illustrate how casual I was about it all in a way I thought people could relate to without being triggered by a description of the actual acts I committed.

 

[Philippa]

I watched a very interesting you tube video a few months back, and it was about a young girl who was in therapy, and very candidly spoke about how she would torture and hurt her little brother, deliberately, and with malice, and also spoke about wanting to kill her own parents.

They had to barricade her bedroom at night, just so she wouldn't get out and attack them all.

She had been molested by her birth father, and after years of therapy, was able to deal with her intense, extreme amounts of rage, to the point where she was even able to feel genuine remorse for what she did to her brother, and cry real tears of shame.

It was a very powerful video, and really illustrated the horrible effects that abuse can have on children, and also the wonderful, transformative effects that a good therapist can have on someone who is very hurt like this.

It wasn't her fault, but she was extremely deadly.

 

[Hashi]

Your post makes me think of two things.

One is that, although I've never acted on it, sometimes I've felt scared of myself around very small children because I want to be cruel and torment them. It's about wanting to exercise power over them. In my case it comes from reacting to things that have happened to me. I want to exert power and control, because I didn't have any in my own past situations. It's also like a punishment for them being so vulnerable - which comes from my (misplaced) anger at myself for having been helpless. I know it's really messed up, but I have been messed up by what happened to me so there it is. Abuse often breeds abuse, without intervention. (Please don't everyone hate me for sharing this, I've never actually done it in any way and it's one reason why I've chosen not to have kids myself.)

Another thing is the little boy who lives next door to me. He's only about seven or eight, but he randomly does things towards us neighbours that can only be described as bullying and nastiness. For example, he hurls stones into gardens where people are having barbecues, or climbs into our gardens when it's dark and leaves chewing gum on our windows, and used sanitary towels he's got from somewhere on the grass. I get a strong sense that he's acting out because of something he can't deal with, and think all behaviour of this type must be for that sort of reason. We've talked to the parents and they're following up on it with school etc, BTW. It seems he might have an undiagnosed learning difficulty/disability which is causing him frustration and anger.

I have no idea what your history is, I'm not saying you were abused or that you have a learning difficulty, just that this sort of behaviour is often a way of expressing or venting things that we didn't have any other way of expressing or venting. The most important thing is how you feel about it now, and whether you can understand what was going on then - which might take some time and exploration.

 

[Philippa]

I don't hate you at all Hashi. I think it's very brave of you to admit to this truth. This IS why adults toy with children, and any living creature that is smaller than them...to assert control and have power over them, as a way of compensating for the powerlessness they felt when they were children.

It's totally normal, given that you were mistreated and abused...so there is nothing to be ashamed of, as long as you don't exercise those impulses. It sounds like you are doing a great job of stopping yourself from carrying these impulses out, and for that you deserve praise.

It shows real character and a responsable person, to admit to this and choose to be vigilant and not follow through on your impulses. The people who abused you were not responsable at all, and they also were not as insightful or self-reflective and honest to be able to stop themselves from doing what they did.

 

[HëllaBubz]

I think it is incredibly brave of you to post this under your real name.....I would have toyed with posting it anonymously.....:notworthy:

WARNING, EXPLICIT CONTENT, PLEASE DON'T READ IF YOU ARE FRAGILE.

Anyway, when I was younger, I discovered myself acting like my father.......we had sheep, and if I couldn't get them to do as I wanted, I would belt them until they were cowering in a corner, and then feel remorse and try to cuddle them and tell them it was their fault I lost it......I would have only been about 8 I think.

When I realized at that age what I had done, and who I was becoming like, I remember dropping the belt and standing in the shed numb with shock and self loathing, whilst the sheep cowered in the corner.

It is still something that I have not managed to come to terms with, and something I really want to discuss with someone, to help me have some sort of clarification with it.

Another point, which I have learned not to be 'too' ashamed of, is that my siblings and I used to experiment sexually, but it started out with inflicting 'punishments' on each other for supposed wrongs committed during our pretend play, which then morphed into the sexual experimentation.

My first introduction to bestiality was around the age of 11 or 12, and is still something I have difficulty talking about with anyone.
My siblings, thank the Good Lord, do not remember any of it, but I remember everything in crystal clear detail.

Inflicting indiscriminate pain on animals is something I am familiar with, so I understand what you mean, and even now, working in Aged Care, death does not affect me as much as people seem to think it should, I respond emotionally to situations where clients have been mistreated by other staff, but pain in others does not seem to resound with me.

Later in life, I ended up in a very violent and sexually abusive relationship, where I stayed for a while, it was almost as though I enjoyed it even though I was so sore I could barely move, and was bleeding from every orifice after being raped violently, and being beaten during it if I didn't show I was enjoying it and appreciating his attention.

A little while later, I met another partner, who turned out to be into child porn, bestiality and non-consent sexual scenes. I spent 6-8 weeks watching the stuff with him, pretending to get off on it whilst the police got their shit together, and then I ran away and they stormed the house.

The f*cked up thing about it was the fact that the non-consent scenes were something that sexually excited me, the child porn scenes made me mentally and physically ill, I had to stop myself from vomiting in his lap several times.....but I feel like such a f*cked up human being from watching things done to people that had been done to me, and traumatized me, and I got off on it.

I still see those scenes in my head now, that child porn was more than my brain could handle.
Even though I am a carer, I still have days where I can look at a fly or an insect or animal, and wonder what would happen if I slowly pull off a limb, or burn them, and the scene will play out in my head.

Now, diagnosed with PTSD 6 years later, if I looked at that kind of stuff, I would most likely have a melt down, but if I read about it, it stirs something inside of me again, and I feel like such a fraud.

A mentally violent, sadistic, sexually twisted, fraud, who is about ready to melt down and lash out at everyone around her.

 

[Dissociated1]

TheBubzilla wrote:
"I still have days where I can look at a fly or an insect or animal, and wonder what would happen if I slowly pull off a limb, or burn them, and the scene will play out in my head."

"death does not affect me as much as people seem to think it should, I respond emotionally to situations where clients have been mistreated by other staff, but pain in others does not seem to resound with me."

I too still have thoughts like this, have a cold logical side that cannot understand the pain and suffering of others. I wonder if I am desperately struggling to feel something, anything, or trying fill the emotionless void left with the part of who I am I have locked away?

We have barely scratched the surface of my behavior in therapy but there seem to be several layers to the way I have treated animals that go beyond my need to be in control of something in my life. This torture was primarily aimed at cats (and later in life the parrot I had for nearly 25 years). I hate their defiant free-spirited attitude and parrots are exactly the same way; you can’t training or punish either one. I remember the viscous cycle; barely able to contain my rage when my parrot would destroy the kitchen molding or chew a huge hole in the linoleum, it literally took everything I had not to kill him. And the overpowering guilt that inevitably followed.

We have been trying to get to the root of my "zero tolerance" of instigators and bullies for several sessions, find the cause of my seething hate and rage. On the way home today I saw the connection to the way I have treated animals. I don’t just need to be in control of something in my life- I need to exert control over a strong will that will not listen to reason.

 

[TeaLeaf]

Your post makes me think of two things.

One is that, although I've never acted on it, sometimes I've felt scared of myself around very small children because I want to be cruel and torment them. It's about wanting to exercise power over them. In my case it comes from reacting to things that have happened to me. I want to exert power and control, because I didn't have any in my own past situations. It's also like a punishment for them being so vulnerable - which comes from my (misplaced) anger at myself for having been helpless. I know it's really messed up, but I have been messed up by what happened to me so there it is. Abuse often breeds abuse, without intervention. (Please don't everyone hate me for sharing this, I've never actually done it in any way and it's one reason why I've chosen not to have kids myself.)

Hashi- I can so relate to this and it is something I am working out in therapy now. When I see kids that resemble me growing up, I sometimes get flashes of anger and thoughts of slapping them or hurting them. It is usually from a distance or from something I see on TV. I do also sometimes want to harm them for being so vulnerable too and it is exactly for the same reasons you describe, misplaced anger at myself. When I am close to children or interacting with them, I have not felt this same urge but it still scares me and I wonder what I am capable of. My therapist explains it as working out my anger at what was done to me in a safe way.

I am really glad you shared this, makes me feel less alone in how I am feeling.