No, I Did Not Violate Your Boundaries

[freakofnurture]

Telling you that she has not gone beyond your boundaries when You clearly think she has is totally idisregarding your needs and feelings, when what you need is someone who respects your boundaries and encourages you further.

The absolute worst about this is that she knows that my fear of people has to do with my boundaries not being respected and me fearing that I'll not be able to protect myself without drawing negative attention and risking punishment. She also knows that exposure therapy for me only makes things worse. She basically kicked me where it would hurt anybody, and me in particular.

She comes from the medical field and received a general as well as a specialised trauma therapy training in addition to that.

Maybe you could look for a non directive therapist. Ask which area the therapist has trained in.

My previous T - let's call her Mrs W - was very good at the non-directive stuff but still managed to teach me so much and helped me a great deal with my relationship with my husband.

When I had to find a new therapist last year, I tried seeing someone for a while who kept challenging me in an area that I felt very protective about. (...) Presumably she has other clients who have a different view and respond to it differently.

Yeah, some people benefit from a more aggressive approach, but I find it pretty weak for a therapist to not accept it when a patient tells them that they don't want that approach in this or that area. A therapist has to be able to trust a patient's self-assessment; and if the patient isn't honest with themselves, there's nothing you can do about it as a therapist. You have to be able to step back and let the patient make their own decisions, even if the therapist believes that it's a bad one.

I wasn't going to feel safe enough with her because of this, so all I could do was stop seeing her and find someone with an approach more suited to mine.

What was the one session like in which you finally decided that it wasn't going to work out?

My last session was completely terrible, I was crying, I was talking loudly, I was about to just walk out before time was up. It was like... this can't really be happening. It came totally out of the blue after we had had a discussion in the session prior to that, about how we wanted to proceed. The last session started out okay - we were talking about what exactly my fear of people feels like, what my body does etc. - but somehow we ended back in the area of the topic that I had declared off-limits.

Had she just said: "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realise. Thank you for speaking up. Are you alright? Do you need anything?" all would have been fine. But she did the exact opposite.

the whole basis is to validate where I am now and to recognise that I do things a certain way for a good reason, such as protecting myself. If I'm going to change anything, I need to feel safe to do that first. And it's always my choice and at my own pace.

In the beginning, my ex-T proceeded a lot like that, but then she just lost patience, I guess.

FON, just a thought, but are there integrative therapists where you are?

Mrs W was an integrative therapist.

At any rate, I'd suggest the humanistic approach, and talking to any potential new therapists about boundaries and your feelings about this.

I guess I should do that.

Freakofnurture, can you please stop me from cheating on my diet? I would like to lose weight. Thank you, Monster

I'll relay your message to FreakOfDietCheating, if that's okay with you. I'm only in charge of What The Body Actually Needs ;)

 

[Abstract]

She sounds like she has trained in doing directive counselling rather than a non directive therapy

I agree with Saffy. She sounds quite CBT ish to me. Directive type therapy did not work for me and I think actually caused me much harm over the years and I had a lot of it because I did not have the ability you have Freakofnature, to tell what upset me or why.

It is now extremely important for me to make sure the therapists approach matches my needs. What works for one may not for the other.

 

[safenow]

At least she didn't try to do an exorcism with you. I had one try to do that to me. I fired him on the spot and literly ran from his office. I'm glad you fired her.

 

[DharmaGirl]

I thought you were in charge of others' addictions, and food is mine. Oh well, I guess I'll have to call Jenny...

 

[saffy]

It is said that you are far more likely to improve with the non directive approach that the directive one.

I believe that someone can tell you something a thousand times but it is not until it makes sense to you and you believe it will work with you then it is a waste of time. which is why the non directive methods is very good. It encourages you to work things out yourself. Which brings you too the 'light bulb goes on' moment :)

Hashi I am glad you have found a humanistic approach. When I studied Rogers I could see how it would be a good therapy for lots of reasons. I am in the UK too. I have heard of the integrated? approach you mentioned and think this can be good for clients who may not respond to one type solely but may need a bit of both methods.

What I learnt is that if I do not get good vibes from my therapist within one session then they are not the one for me. I do this with medication too, the point is to feel an improvement not a set back. :0

With so many therapists out there it makes sense to sit and list what you want and expect from a therapist. what questions to ask them, as mentioned above, to makes sure it is the right one for you.

FON, I really think this therapist is more damaging than helpful and your anger and frustration shows. I hope we can be of some help here, although we are not professionals by all means, for you until you find someone suitable.

Best wishes
Saffy :)

 

[Abstract]

which is why the non directive methods is very good

Saffy,
I think directive therapies work very well for lots of people. But if we have severe self judgment issues, shame, invalidation issues and trouble accepting and understanding our own emotions then it can backfire badly. Just my opinion. I think pure CBT works for the majority of people. But it there were aspects that were bad for me.

At least she didn't try to do an exorcism with you.

Good grief! it is just plain scary what is out there. Good for you that you could self protect. Nuts.

 

[saffy]

She also knows that exposure therapy for me only makes things worse.

She is pushing you way beyond your comfort level which is not going to help. A little exposure in subtle ways maybe, but this can also make the client think that the therapist is playing tricks.

My previous T

What a pity you had to leave her. Maybe she can recommend someone to you for the future?

It might help if you read about the humanistic approach and Carl Rogers, I have given a link above, just to see why this methods works so well with people :)

Best wishes FON

Saffy :)

 

[saffy]

I think pure CBT works for the majority of people

That is true, I read this earlier which was quite interesting.

....with the therapist making evaluations, the therapy ceases to be non-directive. The patient’s progress in therapy is no longer completely self-directed, but instead is directed in collaboration with the therapist.

Aaron T. Beck, the principal originator of CBT, described the collaboration like this in Cognitive Therapy and the Emotional Disorders, Chapter 9:

It is useful to conceive of the patient-therapist relationship as a joint effort. It is not the therapist’s function to try to reform the patient; rather, his role is working with the patient against “it,” the patient’s problem… Investigators…have found that if the therapist shows the following characteristics, a successful outcome is facilitated: genuine warmth, acceptance, and accurate empathy.


FON it is Interesting to read that the therapist was a medic then trained in these area, It could be seen that she just has not got the concept of therapy and rather still relates her work ethics to that of a trained medic rather than training solely in psychotherapy. If they are not an empathic person by nature then this part of the theraputic process is missing. If that makes sense.

However, by what FON has also experienced, going so far on what we have all said, it is hard to see what type she is. Never the less she is definitely the wrong one in this case eh! :)

Best wishes
Saffy :)

 

[freakofnurture]

At least she didn't try to do an exorcism with you. I had one try to do that to me. I fired him on the spot and literly ran from his office. I'm glad you fired her.

Holy crap :confused:

I believe that someone can tell you something a thousand times but it is not until it makes sense to you and you believe it will work with you then it is a waste of time.

Also, therapists aren't mind readers. No one know a person bettern than the person themselves and it is pretty damn arrogant of a therapist to think that they know better than the patient what they need. Unless there is a mutual, explicit agreement that the patient wants to be pushed because they feel that it would help them, and every instance is negotiated explicitly.

What I learnt is that if I do not get good vibes from my therapist within one session then they are not the one for me.

My problem is that I feel uncomfortable around almost everybody. Especially when I don't know them yet.

I hope we can be of some help here, although we are not professionals by all means, for you until you find someone suitable.

:)

FON it is Interesting to read that the therapist was a medic then trained in these area, It could be seen that she just has not got the concept of therapy and rather still relates her work ethics to that of a trained medic rather than training solely in psychotherapy. If they are not an empathic person by nature then this part of the theraputic process is missing. If that makes sense.

She sure does behave a bit as if she were to give me some unpleasant medicine that she *knows* will make me better even though it tastes like shit and makes me feel like shit. Alas, the brain is more complex than that.

 

[Hashi]

A therapist has to be able to trust a patient's self-assessment... You have to be able to step back and let the patient make their own decisions, even if the therapist believes that it's a bad one.

I think that's exactly the problem with directive therapy - they don't do this! The approach seems to be based on challenge rather than validation. That was my experience. I didn't like it at all, and I completely agree with you.

What was the one session like in which you finally decided that it wasn't going to work out?

My experience wasn't as bad as yours. I'm sorry you went through that. In my case, this issue had come up for the third time, I think, and it became clear that this was going to be a sticking point. Like you, I'd had the experience that she'd been very good with something else, which makes it less of a straightforward decision until the problem's repeating itself too much.

Your therapist sounds like she wasn't being consistent, or wasn't communicating consistently, or maybe just wasn't communicating clearly at all. It certainly sounds like she's not for you so in that case it's good that you've taken steps now.

In the beginning, my ex-T proceeded a lot like that, but then she just lost patience, I guess.

I don't know what happened but, again, I suggest you discuss it with any potential new therapist. I've had some bad past experiences of therapy, and a good past experience that ended badly, and although I very much wish I hadn't been through all that, at least those experiences have helped me when looking for a new therapist.

Both of the two good therapists I've had actually asked me what worked and what didn't work for me in my previous experiences of therapy. Now, I would raise that myself when talking initially with therapists before getting into seeing them regularly, and leave it open for them to comment on, to see how they respond.

I think it's very difficult to know what to look for in a therapist and from therapy until we've tried a few things that have clarified some of that for us. It's a hard way to learn, though. Investing time, money and trust with a therapist, even for a short time, is a big deal. It's very tough to have that not work out. I'm sorry for how this has made you feel.

 

[Hashi]

What I learnt is that if I do not get good vibes from my therapist within one session then they are not the one for me.

My problem is that I feel uncomfortable around almost everybody. Especially when I don't know them yet.

I think in that case I think a list of questions is a really good idea.

I try to ask open questions (ones that can't be answered yes or no). For example, instead of asking "Do you work with clients on grounding and safety?" I'd ask something like, "How do you work with clients on grounding and safety?". I don't have a particular answer in mind - as long as what they say sounds reasonable and strikes me as good, that's OK. If it sets off an alarm bell, they're out.

I ask questions like, "What would you do if I couldn't talk about what happened?" and "What would you do if you thought I seemed stuck?". I explain that it's so I can get an idea of their approach. With questions like that, I'd expect them to say "It depends...." and then ask me more about what I meant, or give me a few examples of possible approaches. If they just said, "I'd do X", then... bye bye.

Did a lot of therapist hunting last year... *sighs*

 

[freakofnurture]

My ex-T just replied to my message -.- I wish I could just paste it here so I wouldn't have to read it again, but it's in German, so...

She writes that she expected me to withdraw like that and that she finds it problematic because she thinks that this is my relationship pattern: Someone hurts me or disappoints me, I withdraw (which is basically correct; if someone hurts me - over and over - and treats me badly - over and over - despite my efforts to fix things, then I withdraw: because it would be stupid to continue to invest into the relationship). She writes that she wants to talk about it - 'like adults' - so that we can clarify our misunderstandings, and that we can still decide that things don't work after that.

The thing is, this point where she doesn't understand me, I've tried to explain it to her so many times, but she still does not get it. And it's exhausting because explaining it forces me to talk about the very thing I do not want to talk about. I'm just tired of repeating myself. I'm tired of justifying what I feel and what I do and what I want and still not have it respected.

In my case, this issue had come up for the third time, I think, and it became clear that this was going to be a sticking point. Like you, I'd had the experience that she'd been very good with something else, which makes it less of a straightforward decision until the problem's repeating itself too much.

It makes you question why you're talking at all, if the things that matter don't get through to the T.

I don't know what happened but, again, I suggest you discuss it with any potential new therapist. I've had some bad past experiences of therapy, and a good past experience that ended badly, and although I very much wish I hadn't been through all that, at least those experiences have helped me when looking for a new therapist.

I wish I could be picky when it comes to trauma therapists, but the waiting lists and all are so damn long. Some Ts don't even have one and you have to be lucky to call just at the right time when a time slot opens up.

I think in that case I think a list of questions is a really good idea.

Yeah, I should make one.

Did a lot of therapist hunting last year... *sighs*

What kinds of lures did you use? :D