Attachment Issues

['91 Girl]

Pencil, I think with the situation, you are doing a wonderful job.

 

[Core]

I agree with 91 Girl, the arrangement where she can call her godmother or the other person with your blessing sounds good. Also that you're explaining that it's not her fault, that is great - I've no experience as a mother, but a lot as a child. :hug:

 

[Pencil]

(attached talky OR attached huggy...you like the pro speak? :bookworm: :rolleyes:)

Little academic for me but I think I follow.

I've also reached the point where I don't think I want it indulged. Correction: I don't FEEL it wants to be indulged. The idea of being treated like a child in that kind of setting would be infinitely embarrassing, I think. BUT, I am terrified at might happen if anyone I had any connection with actually touched me. And how to overcome this? How do I 'talk' my body into overcoming its fears and needs?? According to the therapist, this could take years. And in the mean time, my body is drifting further and further away from normal human physical contact.

This is driving me insane.

When I spoke to the therapist about my neurosis, and about the postural integration loon, I said, without realizing at first what I was saying, that 'What to other people is a normal everyday occurrence [physical contact] is potentially dangerous for me'. It was only when she agreed that I realized what I had said, and how far this has gone.

 

[Pencil]

all that matters.

Sorry, I don't want to carry on, but still:

NO, I don't think it is ALL that matters, as she may be struggling with things that will only become apparent later in her life.

I hate the fact that when I switch to the child, I can't stand any form of contact. I was not exaggerating or bullshitting in an earlier post where I described the main EP as not speaking, and red, like in not having a skin - or a thin membrane in place of a skin. When I go 'there' I can't tolerate my daughter or anyone near me, not only touching, but even in my space. And this is why I was so desperate to get this CRAP sorted out in therapy, and why I felt devastated when things went haywire.

Thanks 91 Girl and Core.

 

[Eleanor]

I think the backup plan for your daughter is brilliant, and the fact that she has used it a couple of times means that it is working.

Question that ties the above themes together: Are you physically affectionate with your daughter? Is it ok for her to be physically affectionate with you?

What I know about the need for physical contact is not much and a bit tangential - but here is it:
I know that babies who don't get enough physical contact just don't grow. My (adopted) nephew was such a child. When my brother and sister in law got him he was three and infant sized. As soon as he got settled (a couple of months) he started GROWING like crazy - and is now an adult at a very inconvenient (because he is a wheelchair) nearly six feet tall.

I know that human contact (of a safe and gentle sort) can promote healing of wounds and illnesses (some nifty hospital studies on this.)

So it looks like there is something actually physiological that happens with touch. BUT it might not need to be human. Cats, dogs horses, maybe even snakes might do as well. Petting dogs and cats has measurable effects on stress responses.

I am guessing that if you can find a way to process that trauma (somatic therapy, EMDR something like that) that the aversion will go away - which only leaves the desire part to deal with. You can't talk your way out of needs, BTW.

RE: your daughter - what does she think about when the "adult" you goes away and the "child" you takes over? How does she talk about that? She clearly has had the experience. We talk to my daughter about when Dad is "sick" and "mean" and I explain to her that it was because his mom and "evil Linda" (the ex) were so awful to him, it made him sick and now we are trying to make him better. And he is getting better. So we are trying to get her to make the distinction between "healthy" and "sick" behavior. Stressing that the "sick" behavior is not O.K. but that it is not entirely in his control right now, and he is working hard to make it better so it won't happen again. This is a lot for a six year old to take in, but... She seems to "get" it to a certain extent. And I make sure to give her the message that it is good to feel your feelings and express them in ways that aren't hurtful to others. I try to make time and space for her to process stuff. I'm hoping she won't carry TOO many scars from all this into the future...

Seven year olds are pretty sharp. And it is a good thing that effort counts in parenting, it really does. You don't have to give her everything (who could?) and it sounds like you are taking good actions and making serious efforts to make sure her needs get met. No small task!

 

[Eleanor]

When I go 'there' I can't tolerate my daughter or anyone near me, not only touching, but even in my space.

I see now why this is SOOO urgent. Way scary. I agree.

Are her phone backups close enough to be there physically pretty quickly if need be?

 

[Eleanor]

Oh, rat's I'm going to have to go... I'll check in later...

purely theoretical virtual (((((Pencil))))), if that's ok...

 

[Pencil]

You can't talk your way out of needs, BTW.

Eleanor, thank you for saying that!! My thoughts / feelings exactly.

Oh, rat's I'm going to have to go... I'll check in later...

Please do! :)

(((((Pencil))))), if that's ok...

Yes, thank you!

 

[Abstract]

adult.

Do you have that push pull and compulsion to think of it when you are in this state too? Do you partly find the distance imposed intolerable at those times? No need to answer but something to consider.

I was acutely aware of her.

This sounds so sad and very painful. I can almost sense a child circling around a mother without feeling safe enough to approach.

I think its important to consider that you are still partially preoccupied from what you say here. Which is still partially an anxious pattern. An avoidant pattern as far as I know would be dismissive. My sister is a good example. She says she barely remembers our mother from her childhood (not literally). That she was just a non issue for her.

is potentially dangerous for me'. It was only when she agreed t

I think this is what I have sensed for you. That it is so potentially loaded that it isn't yet safe for you.

When I go 'there' I can't tolerate my daughter or anyone near me

What occurred to me when reading this is that you hate doing this with your daughter. You hate it in general too. It is constantly there with you - push and pull. And you want it sorted NOW so that it doesn't affect her and so that you can put it to rest.

I can certainly understand that. I am very grateful that I don't have children as I truly don't know how I would react. The thing is that you can only do so much. You can do your best to manage it. You can explain it to her in terms that may make it easier. Maybe your t could give you ideas. But sadly you can't force healing super fast and these things take as long as they take. And that has to be OK.

I hear you that this feels intolerable to you.

What occurs to me is that you are possibly not ready to deal with issue on a physical level yet. It does sound like it is a manifestation of your other attachment issues/past wounds. I think you may be surprised how much you could process with words and emotions. I know you won't like me saying that (it seems that people saying this is always what makes you feel people don't understand and feel hopeless). Remember that these things(words emotions) can represent great intimacy and needs. And that that could take you to a place where you could start looking at direct touch again. In many ways you are saying again and again that this is what you need to do.

Are you able to just enjoy all the times you are OK touching and hugging your daughter? I think the backup plan you have sounds really good by the way. For your daughter. I actually think you sound like a very loving and caring mother. Heard of the term "good enough mother"? ;)

I am aware of the fact that I am stepping over many of your vulnerable areas.

 

[Abstract]

not looking for a new therapy relationship....because either is artificial. Me ...actually want a real life, life.

Springer,
I wonder if you have maybe done a lot of work in therapy and in general and if you feel you need to do more now in real life.

The improvements I have made have been in real life or on the internet actually but the reallife progress was at the same time as having therapy. So that I had the support to change certain things at the same time.

One thing though. I think a therapy relationship is a real relationship even though it is a contained one. As a first step I think it can be very useful for many. I am hoping me if I can ever manage it again! :rolleyes: Obviously real life is the final goal.

 

[Abstract]

Pencil,

I hope you are OK. I realise this is all very painful.

 

[JustBe]

:cry: I can't find the thing someone here wrote about how giving your kids the best you can; closeness, affection, HONESTY...etc. "inoculated" them against future hurts. I LOVE THIS! :D

My boys seem to be dealing with the world wonderfully and I was always told by some "experts" that I was "too involved" with them :mad:

But they are now INDEPENDENT, grown men and I would like to think it may be in part because I didn't TOTALLY screw up with them! (sorry about the capital letters but I'm trying to add emphasis without changing to italics).