Deemed "untreatable."

[Animalliberator]

Did you read my responses this morning?

Yes, I did read your comments this morning. And I posted responses to them. Thank you so much for your insights. Very helpful.

 

[maryiscontrary]

My apologies for referring to you as a girl...lol.

This is my opinion based on my experience only. If you are anything like me, you are a so called adrenaline junkie. This runs through my family like the plague, and it has f....cked everything up, because everything escalates.

If you are anything like me, the devils would start to attack when I would be trying to get rest, or concentrate, or sit still. Not when I was doing intense activity. I would really like for you to listen closely, because this is my secret. This is all about taming the fight or flight autonomic response, I mean deep basic biological lizard brain functions....in the brain stem. This may be the reason therapy has been useless, they are talking at you through the cortex and some of the limbic system, but the issue is a runaway autonomic response.

Now, if you go back and check what I wrote earlier in the thread, you will see what worked for me after a lifetime of failure. This is basically having to retrain ancient parts of your nervous system through operant and classical conditioning. And let me tell you, it takes a while, but it can be done. And it damned effective. And free.

I used to be like a person on speed, jumpy, hyperactive. Now, I would bet the farm that I am one of the most laid back people around. I see others jumping around, nervous as hell, and wearing themselves out, and I know how painful that is.

 

[Tinyflame]

I apologize @Animalliberator I haven't read the latest posts, but was thinking as per 'SE' and 'feeling the water in the shower, 'normal' (without ptsd) people do!! That is the point, we have to retrain ourselves. Combat the hypervigilance and (often lifetime) ways our brains and bodies react and process 'life' and all that's in it.

I find reducing stress in advance (self care being a huge part) prevents much- exactly the stress cup explanation by Anthony. We NEED to learn that kind of awareness and practise practise practise. (The act 'as if' explanation).

 

[Hashi]

I have tried SE myself. Here in Denmark we call it 'Gestalt therapy.'

CrazyHorse, I'm puzzled by what you've said. Somatic Experiencing (SE) and Gestalt are completely different therapies.

 

[Hashi]

I feel like no one can help me.

I feel like no-one can help you too - not anyone in this thread or a therapist.

For whatever reason, it certainly doesn't sound like therapy is working for you. You've already started a different thread asking about somatic experiencing, so that's covered elsewhere.

I wonder what this thread is achieving? Nothing, as far as I can see, for you or anyone else. And yet you seem very engaged with it. I gather from what you've written that you're very outcome focussed and want to see results, so I can't imagine you would maintain so much involvement in something that wasn't giving you anything.

What are you getting from this thread, exactly?

 

[bell]

@Animalliberator, I think you need to take a looooong look in the mirror. And if honest to God, you have tried 50 therapists/therapies and nothing has worked... like has been said before, there is one common denominator here... You.

When we really don't want to heal, we Really. Don't. Want. To. Heal. So, we become a self-fulfilling prophecy, which it sounds like you totally are. And, if you want to argue with me, read this entire thread one more time. Then think about it. Because time and time again you've argued with people, put down modes of therapy, and said you're "untreatable." Keep telling yourself that? Well, eventually you're going to be right.

And about therapy, not all therapies work for all people. If they did, there would be only 1 type of therapy. Just because SE doesn't work for you, doesn't give you license to say it sucks, just that it sucks for you.

I actually read this whole thread and my main thought? Quit bitching about how you're untreatable, buck up, and fight it. Most of us here fight all the damn time, and it takes work. Do. The. Work. It takes years. You can do it, you just gotta stop shooting yourself in the foot/distracting yourself with useless negativity first.

 

[anthony]

Whilst I concur that BPD is just a label, so your therapist is correct in that aspect... your therapist is wrong to disregard the relevance and seriousness of what that label means. Personality Disorder starts from childhood, thus you are literally wired wrong due to the abuse you've endured. (See the relevance to you saying you're untreatable?) It has far more significance to be treated first, as the only priority, compared to PTSD. BPD will stop you treating PTSD at every stance, because you have inherit, serious, personality deficiencies which are stopping you. You must target and treat those deficiencies first, before you could go anywhere near PTSD. You cannot treat PTSD without treating the underlying BPD. PTSD is actually just the label, in your case... BPD is really your diagnosable issue that you must be seeking treatment for... and that isn't going to be a walk in the park.

 

[Animalliberator]

BPD is really your diagnosable issue that you must be seeking treatment for... and that isn't going to be a walk in the park.

Nearly all of the 50 therapists I've seen have told me that BPD is not "curable" and very resistant to any kind of treatment. When I was hospitalized some years ago, the therapists at the facility told me that BPD really could not be helped, that any gains I would make would be marginal, and that most therapists refuse to treat Borderlines because they are too difficult. Several recommended ECT, which I refused. Others said I really should be institutionalized because it was unlikely I would ever improve.

It is odd that so many on this thread would accuse me of "wanting" to stay stuck. I'm not doubting the trauma of others on this board but folks here don't know me, don't know what I've gone through, and don't know how hard I've worked to stay alive. Nor do they understand that I am incapable - unless something changes in my current therapy - of sitting in stillness with a sense of calm. That is why the idea of focusing on my feet during SE seems so ludicrous to me. My thoughts race far too much for me to find peace in anything.

These days, I rarely even sleep more than 2-3 hours a day because my mind simply won't shut off. I've tried mindfulness exercises many, many times. Two things happen: my mind goes on overdrive and my body starts to convulse. So while folks here swear by grounding techniques and breathing exercises, they simply don't understand that my mind and body react adversely to the very techniques that may work for them. I even had my wife video how my body reacted when I tried mindfulness work. She was shocked to see my entire body spasm - as if I was having a seizure - followed by strange vocalizations - as if I was possessed. Same thing happened in EMDR. The EMDR therapist said he had never seen such a violent physical reaction to EMDR. I suffered through 15 sessions of EMDR - and did EVERYTHING the therapist suggested during those sessions - with no benefits.

So given how utterly frightening these bodily reactions are it is no wonder I have little faith that body work would be effective for me. It may prove useful for others but for me they are useless or worse, harmful.

 

[Animalliberator]

When we really don't want to heal, we Really. Don't. Want. To. Heal. So, we become a self-fulfilling prophecy, which it sounds like you totally are. And, if you want to argue with me, read this entire thread one more time. Then think about it. Because time and time again you've argued with people, put down modes of therapy, and said you're "untreatable." Keep telling yourself that? Well, eventually you're going to be right.

With all due respect, you don't know me or my situation. And you could not be more wrong.

 

[Animalliberator]

I wonder what this thread is achieving? Nothing, as far as I can see, for you or anyone else. And yet you seem very engaged with it. I gather from what you've written that you're very outcome focussed and want to see results, so I can't imagine you would maintain so much involvement in something that wasn't giving you anything.

I joined this forum and posted the initial comment because I feel at a loss. I feel I've reached the end of the line, having tried nearly every medication and therapy for depression, anxiety, and PTSD. What I had hoped to achieve is for someone to explain SE in a way that made sense to me. So far, no one has. It still sounds like gobbledygook. I spent last night reading several articles about SE really hoping that I'd understand it better. I'm more confused than before. I just don't get how focusing on my feet on the floor or my back on a chair would in any way help me. Really. I just don't get it. And no one at this site has explained - in a way I understand - how such exercises would benefit me.

Every morning and every night I do the first exercise suggested in Dr. Levine's book, "Waking the Tiger." That exercise includes standing under the shower and feeling the water on various parts of one's body. And each time I walk away from the experience feeling WORSE and more depressed because it makes no sense to me. I just get frustrated by the whole thing.

I keep going to therapy because - while it hasn't helped me heal - it has kept me alive. Barely.

 

[Lost Pup]

I happily gave you a very clear, simple explanation of the shower exercise.

If you are interested in healing from BPD, there is no choice but to go into the space ofmumbo-jumbo, hippy dippy etc. Your illness has physiologic features but is fundamentally emotionally based. And, for BPD, mindfulness is the first line of treatment, sorry to break it to you.

 

[Animalliberator]

If you are interested in healing from BPD, there is no choice but to go into the space ofmumbo-jumbo, hippy dippy etc.

As I have noted several times on this thread, I don't operate on blind faith. I need to have confidence in a therapist; that they know what they are doing. I don't just dive into therapy head first. I need to feel safe. And part of that sense of safety comes from feeling my therapist is competent and guiding me along the right path. If I don't understand what they are doing and why they are doing it I don't feel safe. If it all seems airy-fairy to me I don't have faith in it. It has to feel logical, rational, and understandable for me to feel comfortable enough to work with a therapist.

It is wonderful others on this board can give into therapy and embrace it without reservation. I don't have that emotional or psychological constitution to operate that way. One of the biggest turn-offs from Dr. Levine's book was his reference to one's soul. I don't believe in souls or afterlife or religion or anything that can't be explained rationally. As soon as Dr. Levine went off on a tangent about shamanism, souls, spirituality, and energy he lost me. All of that sounds as if it was written by someone who has had one too many bong hits.

I operate on science, facts, evidence, logic. Not faith.