Deemed "untreatable."

[ms spock]

I've tried to go it alone without a therapist. I often end up in the hospital. There the doctors force meds on me. But I've never responded well to meds.

So why do you think the Dentist sedation medication worked but none of the psychiatric drugs didn't work? Did you give them a fair try out or chopped and changed a bit?

 

[CrazyHorse]

I do not for the life of me understand why you would keep up with SE therapy when you have made up your mind that it is not only not working for you, but nothing but it hippy-dippy nonsense anyway. I am not questioning your oppinion, you have a right to that. I have tried SE myself. Here in Denmark we call it 'Gestalt therapy.' It did not work for me either.

I know you have stated that you keep at it because you want to 'keep an open mind' and that you are kind of out of therapy options. So now you try the 'mumbo-jumbo' option which, to your surprise (or maybe not so much to your suprise since you in advance made up your mind about the nature of this therapy), does not seem to be working either. The main thing I noticed in your argumentation, is that you are not keeping an open mind. Not even the slightest.

As I see it, the issue is not whether SE is working or not! Do you understand what I mean? I am not suggesting that if you just keep an open mind (for real:-) then SE will magically work for you. It did not for me anyway. If this was just about SE I do not think I would have bothered to respond, but I am just concerned that it is your thought pattern, as many have suggested to you, that is keeping you bound. (50 therapists and various therapy forms are the main clue).

Throughout your posts one sentence in particular came to mind: "keep makeing arguments for your limitations and surely they become yours!"

I wish you the best!

 

[ms spock]

I think you should sit down and have an honest conversation with yourself about what it is you are trying to accomplish. I think there are people who find a false sense of identity in their own illness. It is like one doesn't have an identity without having a diagnosis to label themselves with nor do they ever want to find the answers because then who are they?

I think it would be good to have this as a separate thread as well. Because there are some important issues here. How do you adjust once you get well and you have to become a different identity? I would be most interested to hear how people have managed this.

I had a psychologist that moved in with me, one that knocked out my front teeth whilst we were in a relationship, the day after therapy ended and one who was inappropriate and got me to write essays for his students struggling at university. I was 15 and terrified of my father who was stalking me so I was gotten by one pretty young and just leapt out of the fire into the frying pan and back again.

I have a friend whose sister committed suicide when she realised that she was pregnant to her psychiatrist.

So I was looking at this through a different lens last night. But I did always be pretty brave and try someone or something else.

I hope these issues will be fleshed out in greater detail as there is an interesting and detailed discussion.

I have got stuck in trauma states. I am stuck in myself. I am finding it hard to make changes. I have a good psychiatrist but I am working at it albeit slowly.

But perhaps you are meditating morning and night Animalliberator?

I also do Tai Chi, Dancing, Yoga each week. I volunteer 1 and a half days per week.

I need to get back on to the Mindfulness meditation. I am meditating morning and night.

I am wondering Animalliberator what it is that you are doing that is positive and constructive?

I feel that I am going slower than your average yogi bear to get to the healing place. But I keep trying and I keep asking the questions though it doesn't always go in.

Maybe I am naive but surely there are some things that are keeping you going? What strategies have you picked up over time that help you from day to day.

Do you do gratitude lists,? Random acts of kindness, exercise and meditation?

 

[ms spock]

Okay well there is a good book for people with borderline personality disorder. It is called "Mindfulness for Borderline Personality Disorder" by Blaise Aguirre and Gillian Galen.

 

[Barconian]

She is already saying things like, "Well, Somatic Experiencing doesn't work for everyone. Perhaps you will need to try another SE therapist."

How intelligent are you?

 

[anthony]

I will remind all that opinions are just that, and should not be argued for right or wrong.

Stating you're BPD answers things better, as that would be the problem and that is what DBT is designed for.

 

[maryiscontrary]

Well, I have not had a chance to read through all the post since yesterday. But let me tell you, I have to side with animal liberator on this one. I was deemed untreatable because I thought my therapist were not trained in a way that they could validate convincingly. That is, I thought they were full of bullshit, and only pretended to be professional. Damn, I had to fire so many of them.

In my opinion, my savior was to self soothe during extreme emotional states. Like I said, the dharma talks, which I could put on day or night, where the only forms of advice that seemed practical and not full of bullshit. If one doesn't seem right, them there are thousands more. Again, the technical aspects of meditation saved my life. Totally free, totally on my terms.

Do you want links to these or not?

 

[digger]

Well, I have not had a chance to read through all the post since yesterday. But let me tell you, I have to side with animal liberator on this one

Is it really a question of 'sides'? This is a support forum, to some degree it could be said that everyone is on the same side. Going on what information the poster has made available, people have responded with their advice and opinions - I don't believe any of it meant in a way to sabotage the poster's progress in therapy, but to give him different points to consider that he may not already have considered.

He might not like or agree with the opinions and advice given, but it does not mean it was given in malice.

 

[maryiscontrary]

Well, maybe I should clarify. Animal liberator appears to be stating that many attempts at therapy have been disastrous. Understandably, a lot of people try to argue that there must be something wrong with her.

Again, much of so called borderline (I think an pejorative term) is really complex trauma. All I am doing is validating...it appears that she has been let down be so many professionals, that she would reasonably think the system is a bunch of BS. Hey I certainly did. I think the mental health system fails a LOT of people, and in some ways, can be very barbaric.
I have been there.

Now there are some people, who appear to have complex trauma themselves, and who have been horribly degraded and invalidated, who appear to be saying her experience isn't valid.

I read through some of the posts, animal lib, and the mindfulness with the extreme sports is great. This is being aware when your body is activated and full of adrenaline. Can you sit still and be aware when your body is quiet, that is, without the physiological stress response. This may be where confusion between the posters is happening.

 

[Animalliberator]

A lot of comments on this thread talk about trust and faith in a therapist. I believe trust has to be earned. I don't put faith in anything or anyone unless I see credibility in it.

Here is an analogy that I think is apt: As I noted, I'm a rock climber. At times in my life, I've been a climbing guide. And the MOST important aspect of climbing is safety - for obvious reasons. Make a mistake, even what appears to be a minor one, and one can end up dead. So, when I take a new climber out I know just how important it is to make him/her feel safe. The client needs to feel confident in my skills as a guide. With that in mind, I thoroughly explain rope anchoring systems, why it is critical to check one's harness and belay device three times, how to properly hang carabiners so the gates don't accidentally open up, how to flake out a rope so that it doesn't become tangled... By explaining all these steps I accomplish two things: I help the climbing client understand why the system works and, perhaps more importantly, I instil in them a sense of confidence they have in me. After all, their life is literally in my hands. After the client feels confident that I am competent as a guide can trust be built and the new climber can relax and focus on having fun with the experience.

I believe therapy is quite similar. I'm not opposed to SE. I have no idea if it really works or not. My experience, thus far, has been disappointing and frustrating. I believe for trust to be built between a client and therapist that the THERAPIST, not the client, has the responsibility of creating an environment where trust can grow. And the foundation of trust, at least for me, is credibility. If the therapist can demonstrate that a particular technique works and can explain in plain English - not in psychobabble - how it works then I would begin to feel confident in that therapist. Then trust might begin to blossom.

Blind faith when climbing can lead to devastating consequences. Sure, there is inherent risk in climbing. But I calculate those risks based on facts first then evaluating the situation carefully. Therapy should be the same way, in my opinion. Blindly jumping off a psychological cliff into the arms of a therapist without first knowing if they - and the techniques they employ - are capable of catching you is not prudent.

So far, I don't trust my SE therapist because she has not made a convincing case that her practice is effective or that she knows what she is doing. Nor has she, nor Dr. Levine's book nor the many SE articles I've read, adequately explained SE in a way I can get my brain around. If I took a climbing client out and confused the hell out of them I doubt they'd have confidence in me. I keep it simple, to the point, and make sure they understand everything I'm doing when I guide them.

 

[maryiscontrary]

Did you read my responses this morning?

 

[Animalliberator]

Well, maybe I should clarify. Animal liberator appears to be stating that many attempts at therapy have been disastrous. Understandably, a lot of people try to argue that there must be something wrong with her. Again, much of so called borderline (I think an pejorative term) is really complex trauma. All I am doing is validating...it appears that she has been let down be so many professionals, that she would reasonably think the system is a bunch of BS. Hey I certainly did. I think the mental health system fails a LOT of people, and in some ways, can be very barbaric. I have been there.

First, Maryiscontrary, thanks for your very supportive and understanding words. You explained clearly what I seem to have not been able to do. Lots of the post on this thread have been helpful and informative. But a few have harshly criticized me without knowing my situation or how hard I have tried to work in therapy.

As for the BPD diagnosis I've been given. My current talk therapist - who I must say is the very first therapist who has ever made me feel comfortable and who I am growing to have faith in - doesn't like the BPD label. She says it stigmatizes people and can lead them to feel hopeless. Second, she disagrees with those therapists who have diagnosed me as BPD. She simply believes I endured prolonged and severe childhood trauma that has not yet been adequately addressed. She also has said she understands why many therapies have failed me. She said it has been no surprise past therapy has not worked because she believes 1) many therapists have tried to force me to feel intimate with them. I agree with my current talk therapist completely on this. I have NO idea what it is like to feel intimate with anyone - my wife, friends, family. I feel completely detached from humans. But, MANY therapists have insisted I open up to them and feel a sense of intimacy with them. I would always tell them I have no idea what that looks like; 2) previous therapists have tried to rush things. The one thing I really do like about my current talk therapist is her amazing patience. I've been seeing her for five months and never once has she pushed me.; 3) previous therapists have used a cookie cutter approach to my case. As you noted, maryiscontrary, many therapists simply do not know how to treat really complex trauma. I once saw a therapist who got angry with me because he just couldn't understand why I didn't respond to his techniques. He said, "Look, I've been treating drug addicts and prostitutes in the worst part of town for nearly 25 years and the techniques I'm trying with you have rarely failed me with my other clients." Well, I'm not a drug addict or prostitute. And, in fact, I'm a highly educated person, classically trained musician, climber, snowboarder, with a successful career. Techniques that may work on those with addictions don't necessarily work on individuals with radically different experiences.

I read through some of the posts, animal lib, and the mindfulness with the extreme sports is great. This is being aware when your body is activated and full of adrenaline. Can you sit still and be away when your body is quiet, that is, without the physiological stress response. This may be where confusion between the posters is happening.

Very good point, maryiscontrary. I can see why that would be confusing. It confuses me, too. I am very aware of my body from all the extreme sports I do. To further confuse things, very few people in my life are aware that anything is wrong with me. My public persona is one of great confidence. People see me as a leader. I've had friends tell me they think I'm one of the most together, strong, and competent people they've ever met. Only my wife and therapist really know the truth about me. I have a great facade that fools nearly everyone. I've learned to control my emotions very well (face it, I had to because I saw the horrible consequences of letting emotions go wild when my parents beat the crap out of each other and me every day when I was a kid. I promised myself that I would NEVER lose my temper or let my emotions get away from me. So I'm extremely controlled. I am able to override any emotions I feel through logical thinking.)