When It Just Doesn't Work Out

[Sarah2732]

Do you think any willing client can benefit from any competent therapist as long as they share common goals? Or does personality, gender, worldview, etc play a big enough role that even when a client and a therapist share the same goals and respect each other and are both willing... that sometimes it's just not possible for the relationship to be helpful to the client? (Or, helpful enough to justify the cost, at least)

What about if a therapist in their personality and gender inherently trigger a client. Ideally, the client would benefit from working through that with the counselor, but are the situations where the triggering is such a big issue that it cannot be overcome?

I'm asking myself these questions about T I've been seeing for 4 months and don't feel at all attached to. I just keep showing up but I'm not sure it's helping me to bond or attach with him at all.

 

[JEKBreatheandBelieve]

Personally, I would not be able to go to a male therapist. It just wouldn't work for me at this point in my life. I think that there are benefits to working through triggers, but I think if a therapist is continually triggering you, it's not a good match.

I liked my therapist from day one, but I didn't actually trust her for many months. I am still not completely comfortable trusting and talking, but I know I trust her and that's important. It's a good fit even though we are very different people. She is outgoing and believes in things I don't. Her worldview is different than mine. But despite all of that, I know it's a good fit. I know the difficulty I experience is because PTSD-stuff is difficult.

In my opinion, one has to feel comfortable with their therapist and you can't force that relationship if it's not working. Do you have the option of finding another therapist?

 

[arfie]

I kinda feel like this is a conundrum. A question which does not really have a clear answer to it. Is it nature or nurture? Did the chicken come before the egg? Etc., etc. I believe there simply isn't a one-size-fits-all answer to it.

Is therapy ineffective because of the client or the therapist? When I found myself wondering down this line (twice), I brought it up with the therapist. The first time we decided the chemistry was not there. In retrospect, I do not believe I was ready. I wasn't ready for another 10 or so years. The second time it lead us to some of the blocks that were holding me back. It was a breakthrough for me.

Just sharing personal experience.

Gentle support while you sort through yours.

 

[GWhizz]

I think it's hugely important that you get a T that's a good 'fit' with you.

Just like in life, we cannot be expected to click with just everyone or anyone. I do think it's important that you give these things a fair go though. For example, when I first spoke with my T on the phone prior to meeting, my 1st impression was I wouldn't get on with her, she was quite short with me on the phone etc. But when I met her my opinion changed. At some points I questioned whether or not she could ever really empathize with me as we come from quite different classes etc, but over time I have begun to realise that that wasn't important in this instance.

I only have one other therapy experience, and I can tell you, there was NO WAY that one could have worked out. I think her style of therapy and approach just wouldn't work for me.

At the end of the day, all therapists are different and all clients are too, even trauma T's and PTSD clients. There is no way I could ever imagine there could be a 'one shoe fits all' kind of therapist. But at the same time, I'm not sure there is such thing as an automatic perfect match. I think it's always an up and down work in progress, for me anyway. That relationship has to grow and build and you need to test out your T, so to speak, to build trust and assess their commitment etc, in my opinion. You also need to be able to direct them when needed and never assume they can read your mind no matter how close and intuitive you feel they may be to you.

I hope you can at least address this matter with your T. At one point when I considered quitting before, my T offered to refer me to someone else. Of course, I declined as my issue was not about the therapist, it was an issue I felt would have carried through to any therapist.

So I guess you need to ask 2 questions of yourself. 1. Do you think you can get the work done with this T that you need to? and 2. Do you think it is possible to identify something lacking in this T that maybe present in another T, or are there deeper attachment issues at play here, that could potentially follow you or that could be addressed/resolved by this or another T, if the attention was given to the matter?

 

[NovemberStar]

I've seen 4 different Ts over the past 20 plus years. The length of time I worked with each varies from 2 years to 8 years. But it's the T I have now that I am making the most progress. Partly it will be due to her being a better fit - and more qualified to treat complex trauma (!!!!!) - and part of it is I am simply more ready and willing and able to do the work I need to do.

I could not work with a male T either. I also would struggle to work with a highly maternal T. One T I made the decision to stop seeing in part because she was too nice - and seemingly too emphathetic to the things I was talking about. It seemed to break her heart when I talked about some of the abuse I had been through and it eft me feeling she might break if I said too much.

I didn't realise until I saw this T how much of a HUGE difference it makes to see someone able to not just 'talk the talk' during trauma therapy, but was able to ''walk the walk'. With. Y other Ts it felt like I was leading the way and they were following me. With this. T, I don't feel I have to ow all the answers and show here where I am or where I am heading. She is right there beside me, because she hasn't just READ about trauma or hasn't BEEN through her own experiences of trauma, but she is REALLY able to relate the theory to my experience. She GETS it.

 

[Friday]

Do you think any willing client can benefit from any competent therapist as long as they share common goals?.

Oh heck no!

Of course personality, world view, culture, etc. enters into things. How much depends on the individuals involved.

I realIze "no judgments" is currently a hugely popular thing to say... But let's get real: People are different. Some we love, like, are ambivalent about, tolerate, can't abide, loathe. Those are all based upon a complex series of judgments. Just because there is another human being sitting in front of you, does not mean that you are under any kind of obligation to trust, respect, and seek their counsel! Which is what a T is. Someone that you not only seek their counsel, but then apply it.

Good on ya, btw. :D

It's actually a developmental milestone: Discernment, and placing yourself on equal footing as other people. Neither automatically placing everyone in authority over you, nor rebelling against anyone having any authority over you. (Trusting everyone, or trusting no one)... But taking people on a case by case basis.

Normal people tend to reach it sometime in their teens or twenties (big gap, normal always has a big gap). It's a common thing for trauma to interrupt, though. So it either never/hasn't happened yet... Or reverts. In 1:2 ways. Because trusting everyone is the same thing as trusting no one it's still opposite sides of the same coin.

Sounds like you're making progress to be asking these questions, and looking at the subtlety involved (like when you can respect someone, but not gel with them, that you yourself are as "important" as they are / your needs matter... And that you can respect someone without liking them, etc. is a subtle thing). Seriously, good on you.

------

I'm not "there", by the by. I have been... But am currently in the 'trust no one' zone. I can remember experientially, and know academically, but I'm still stuck in this other zone.

 

[Notsowild]

I like having a male T. I find I can work through my issues about men better with him. He's never made me feel uncomfortable. I sometimes forget he's a male. I'll say I have this mistrust of men and he'll remind me of his gender. To me he is just a great T.

 

[Suzetig]

It's entirely possible to just not "click" with your therapist. It's nothing to do with your willingness to work, or their competence - it's a connection thing and sometimes it's just not there. It any be worth talking to your T about how you're feeling, they may be able to help you unpick what's missing, or help you give yourself permission to find someone else.

Research points to the relationship being the key factor in whether therapy is beneficial, your T will know this and will also have a sense of how your relationship is developing. A good T will welcome a conversation about the relationship.

 

[Sarah2732]

Thanks guys. That's helpful stuff to consider. I've seen a really good trauma therapist for nearly 5 years, but thought I was ready to work very deliberately on my fear of men and felt like the boundaries of therapy were the only place I was at all willing to try any type of relationship with a man (like, I've had so many bad experiences with male relationships, but if I can think of him as a "therapist" I can at least get myself in the room- because I've had safe experiences with therapists)

Now I just don't know. It's hard to even make small talk with him, even after this long. And as "luck" would have it, lol, there are a lot of things about him physically that specifically trigger me.... none of which I can tell him about because I'm so scared of him. I'm concerned he's as frustrated as I am, and he'll admit to impatience in the process, but insists he can be patient.

He's not experienced with trauma, which WOULD be a deal breaker for me but my old T (who I still see once every few weeks) keeps reminding me I need different things from him than I did from her and maybe that's not super important. I don't know.

I REALLY want to make progress on my issues with men. Therapy has helped me grow in so many ways but I feel like not being able to function around/with men is the biggest, most handicapping thing in my life right now. And honestly if I had to pick a few words to describe him I’d say that he’s been kind and attentive and adaptive to needs I’ve been able to communicate- but he’s kind of inconsistent too (... though maybe just because he keeps trying different methods to help me communicate)

Do you have the option of finding another therapist?

I keep debating trying to get a referral to some older, professorial type male therapist- it would definitely be easier but I'm not sure if it would have the potential to be ultimately as healing...

Is therapy ineffective because of the client or the therapist? When I found myself wondering down this line (twice), I brought it up with the therapist. The first time we decided the chemistry was not there. In retrospect, I do not believe I was ready. I wasn't ready for another 10 or so years. The second time it lead us to some of the blocks that were holding me back. It was a breakthrough for me.

You know, I get that. But sometimes I'm like, "If I can just repeatedly beat myself against this obstacle just maybe it will move from shear force" LOL. I guess maybe I should consider the willingness to try an indication of actually being ready?

So I guess you need to ask 2 questions of yourself. 1. Do you think you can get the work done with this T that you need to? and 2. Do you think it is possible to identify something lacking in this T that maybe present in another T, or are there deeper attachment issues at play here, that could potentially follow you or that could be addressed/resolved by this or another T, if the attention was given to the matter?

I always have deeper attachment issues at play. :-P I think 1. is why I haven't terminated yet. I don't think this guy can help me with many, maybe the majority of my issues, but I wonder if BECAUSE he triggers me so bad, he could really help me with this one, specific issue. I told him my only goal for therapy with him was to feel safe with him.

It's actually a developmental milestone: Discernment, and placing yourself on equal footing as other people. Neither automatically placing everyone in authority over you, nor rebelling against anyone having any authority over you. (Trusting everyone, or trusting no one)... But taking people on a case by case basis.

Oh yeah! Huge struggle for me! Black and white thinking is so easy, but seeing greys is so much more complicated!

I like having a male T. I find I can work through my issues about men better with him. He's never made me feel uncomfortable. I sometimes forget he's a male. I'll say I have this mistrust of men and he'll remind me of his gender. To me he is just a great T.

That's awesome. I'm so glad you've got that! Hope maybe I can get there!

It any be worth talking to your T about how you're feeling, they may be able to help you unpick what's missing, or help you give yourself permission to find someone else. Research points to the relationship being the key factor in whether therapy is beneficial, your T will know this and will also have a sense of how your relationship is developing. A good T will welcome a conversation about the relationship.

I can tell him some stuff, I know he wishes we could talk more about our relationship but I freeze up. I'm thinking of asking him for permission to email him...

 

[Ladyghosthunter]

My former therapist pointed out my symptoms like they were something of a disease that wasn't going to cure me. With PTSD, NO ONE is going to be "cured", what we can do is try to manage what we have and try to learn what we have, even if it hurts. I had to change therapist because my former therapist didn't deal with my PTSD, she couldn't and I wish she could've told me that in the beginning so that I wouldn't have wasted my money.

So now I'm seeing a therapist that specifically deals with non-military PTSD and he told me point blank, "You have a lot of on your plate and it's going to be a challenge to deal with but I'm going to take this on."

Bonus!!!!