I have a hard time managing more than about one relationship as well. But, I think a positive thing is that a good friend moved a couple years ago and I realized every once in a while that I missed him. I thought about him and missed him and wanted him to be back so we could hang out. But it took a while for it to occur to me that I could call him :). Like he still existed in my mind, but also on Earth. Ha!! It is hard to maintain the friendship, but it was a bit of an evolution for me to keep in contact some!
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Childhood Early Attachment Problems
- Post starter Kintsugi
- Start date
- Status
Interpersonal dynamics are typically highly problematic for traumatised people. It's because of arrested development after having been brought up in a dysfunctional/exploitative/abusive environment. If you've never been taught how to manage social dynamics, you can't NOT be quite emotionally immature as a result. After being raised by grossly immature parents, I never learnt how to deal with life in a reasoned, mature fashion. I'd never been taught the necessary skills to cope with increasing challenges and complex situations, especially social ones. I had an inordinately juvenile perspective, which limited me in many ways.
It's NOT your fault that you find social interactions stressful and perplexing and overwhelming! This is the logical outcome of extreme stress, especially on a young child whose development processes have been distorted.
What I've found helpful is to literally change the way I speak. Start sprinkling simple statements throughout your day like 'I want _______' or 'I like/don't like __________' or 'I feel ____' or 'I'd prefer to ___________' as a way to offer opinions or observations that demonstrate a preference. This can help you get used to expressing yourself in basic ways that were likely discouraged/suppressed as a child. It'll feel weird at the beginning, but it's quite possible with practice to toss these off casually, as if in passing, as if it's not really a big deal to let ourselves be known in these little ways.
Go into shops and speak in simple statements: 'I'd like the chocolate ice cream!' 'Nah, I don't like that colour'. 'I want an extra-large cappuccino, extra hot, pls!' When speaking with people, find a way to express a feeling: 'this sunshine feels great' or 'I love the sound of a rainstorm'. Even when you're alone, practise speaking in these declarative ways so that you start feeling good about expressing who the hell you ARE! :) If you have a good friend/sibling/anyone with whom you feel safe, deliberately orient your speech in this way.
I realised at one point that I would never express a feeling/opinion and it was a very deeply-entrenched habit of not speaking for fear of censure/criticism/mockery. I was impossible to get to know as a result, and it made me feel even MORE lonely and isolated. I consider myself as having suffered severe 'emotional concussions' throughout my childhood. These days, there's so much more awareness of the terrible repercussions of head injuries, and the recovery process is typically quite arduous. It's even more so with emotional wounds, but neuroplasticity is an amazing thing, and rerouting patterns/finding effective workarounds can be done. Of course it's not easy but this is about very small and incremental steps to change.
We were INDUCED to believe that we were useless, not worthy of love, and are habituated to feeling like total shite.This is an old, useless and pernicious identity, and one that needs to be outgrown. I found some very interesting stuff (not much that's recent) on something called DESNOS (disorders of extreme stress not otherwise specified). It's different from PTSD in that it's premised on protracted childhood trauma as a result of useless parenting. A key symptom is f*cked up interpersonal/relational dynamics.
It was a relief to realise there were valid reasons for how I behaved with human beings!
It's NOT your fault that you find social interactions stressful and perplexing and overwhelming! This is the logical outcome of extreme stress, especially on a young child whose development processes have been distorted.
What I've found helpful is to literally change the way I speak. Start sprinkling simple statements throughout your day like 'I want _______' or 'I like/don't like __________' or 'I feel ____' or 'I'd prefer to ___________' as a way to offer opinions or observations that demonstrate a preference. This can help you get used to expressing yourself in basic ways that were likely discouraged/suppressed as a child. It'll feel weird at the beginning, but it's quite possible with practice to toss these off casually, as if in passing, as if it's not really a big deal to let ourselves be known in these little ways.
Go into shops and speak in simple statements: 'I'd like the chocolate ice cream!' 'Nah, I don't like that colour'. 'I want an extra-large cappuccino, extra hot, pls!' When speaking with people, find a way to express a feeling: 'this sunshine feels great' or 'I love the sound of a rainstorm'. Even when you're alone, practise speaking in these declarative ways so that you start feeling good about expressing who the hell you ARE! :) If you have a good friend/sibling/anyone with whom you feel safe, deliberately orient your speech in this way.
I realised at one point that I would never express a feeling/opinion and it was a very deeply-entrenched habit of not speaking for fear of censure/criticism/mockery. I was impossible to get to know as a result, and it made me feel even MORE lonely and isolated. I consider myself as having suffered severe 'emotional concussions' throughout my childhood. These days, there's so much more awareness of the terrible repercussions of head injuries, and the recovery process is typically quite arduous. It's even more so with emotional wounds, but neuroplasticity is an amazing thing, and rerouting patterns/finding effective workarounds can be done. Of course it's not easy but this is about very small and incremental steps to change.
We were INDUCED to believe that we were useless, not worthy of love, and are habituated to feeling like total shite.This is an old, useless and pernicious identity, and one that needs to be outgrown. I found some very interesting stuff (not much that's recent) on something called DESNOS (disorders of extreme stress not otherwise specified). It's different from PTSD in that it's premised on protracted childhood trauma as a result of useless parenting. A key symptom is f*cked up interpersonal/relational dynamics.
It was a relief to realise there were valid reasons for how I behaved with human beings!
Flower Power
Bronze Member
TY so much for putting everything into such clear words. It really helped me to hear you. I totally agree with all you have said and saddly have experienced. Many of us have suffered these repercussions and then blame ourselves when we have been trained to retreat, accept the blame, remain voiceless or else. Re-learning how to have a voice I feel for me was one of the greatest challenges as well as one of the greatest break throughs to the freedom of accepting my self, my experiences and the right to the truth of the consequences of the abuse that I grew up with. Broken bones and not the only things that get broken and taken away from us, the effect on my ability to deal with any authority especially in a work situation would leave me voiceless, trembling and terrified and then I would be so emotionally overwhelmed and wondering what the hell was wrong with me. Growing up terrified when my mother might decide to attack again. I finally read some where that the terror is so intense for a child because if the child is not seen and valued by the caregiver then the child's survival is actually threatened. So this is a very core and very real justifiable fear that can become ingrained especially with multiple confirmations through abuse that you are of little or no value and deserving of the abuse and have no way to defend yourself. It helped me remove the self blame and judgment that I had on myself and my social ineptness.
sun seeker
Diamond Member
Wow, @Simply Simon, there is so much in your post I can relate to. Especially this:
Then over time, there is another problem: I've done this so much that there is not a whole lot that I am sure is actually me, or what I want in the first place. I'm working on asking for what I need, and it's really hard because a lot of the time I have no idea what I need.
I'm working on this because I realize it's putting undue expectations on other people to read my mind, but boy is it hard going. Asking for what I need, stating my opinion, and initiating contact feel so risky.
I thought I was the only one who would do that. The real problem here is the other person having no idea I'm doing it, as you say. I attract a lot of people into my life who think I have a lot more in common with them than I actually do, because in fact I am morphing my tastes and habits to be like theirs.
Then over time, there is another problem: I've done this so much that there is not a whole lot that I am sure is actually me, or what I want in the first place. I'm working on asking for what I need, and it's really hard because a lot of the time I have no idea what I need.
This doesn't really happen to me, because it isn't dishonest so much as really not having an opinion at all a lot of the time.
People who aren't here right now do feel real to me, but the problem is with initiating contact. I become convinced that I am a nuisance, not wanted, in the way, even if the other person has never given any indication of such. The more attached to them I am, the more convinced I become of this. So it feels a lot safer to wait for them to contact me than the other way around.
I'm working on this because I realize it's putting undue expectations on other people to read my mind, but boy is it hard going. Asking for what I need, stating my opinion, and initiating contact feel so risky.
- Post starter
- #53
Kintsugi
Sponsor
THIS. Yes. This breaks me to pieces trying to sort out where I am amidst the clutter of what I try to be.
Also this. :(
ms spock
VIP Member
This is all so relevant to me, and I don't know what to do about it all.
I don't even know how to feel and be present in my own body which is weird and I am not really sure what to do about that.
I don't even know how to feel and be present in my own body which is weird and I am not really sure what to do about that.
D
Deleted member 20978
I wrote my very first official psych paper (101) on attachment disorders and the then slightly trendy rage reduction therapy (do not seek this therapy). Always thought John Bowlby was brilliant but I remember also thinking then for the first time, wow, people really don't seem to differentiate between models/theories and *reality*. If something gets peer-reviewed enough to make the DSM, suddenly people treat it as Truth, as opposed to what it is, which is a useful model. Reality is infinitely more complex.
All of which is my over-intellectualizing part trying to say, yeah, I relate to attachment issues but also think this stuff should be taken with more than a grain of salt. Of course people who have been wronged don't naturally trust others. And of course being raised by dysfunctional nutbags (speaking for myself here) will instill some odd patterns in relating. Personally, I'm still waiting to find the bearded Robin Williams character to tell me it's not my fault, but until then I'm accepting the fact that I don't naturally fit anywhere. I had one therapist tell me a couple years ago he saw one problem of mine was trusting people too much. I would have done a spit take if I'd been drinking. I said, doc, I don't trust *anyone*...
At the happiest times of my generally unhappy life, I had a lot of people who knew me and thought well of me and me them, but maybe 1-2 people I was really close to who I thought knew the "real" me. I don't know if that's normal or healthy or what. I missed the bus on normal a long time ago. Nowadays I feel like I live on a desert island. Am I being too trusting here? Or am I really sharing anything? I don't even know. I suppose if I really wanted connection I'd do a better job of putting on a facade.
All of which is my over-intellectualizing part trying to say, yeah, I relate to attachment issues but also think this stuff should be taken with more than a grain of salt. Of course people who have been wronged don't naturally trust others. And of course being raised by dysfunctional nutbags (speaking for myself here) will instill some odd patterns in relating. Personally, I'm still waiting to find the bearded Robin Williams character to tell me it's not my fault, but until then I'm accepting the fact that I don't naturally fit anywhere. I had one therapist tell me a couple years ago he saw one problem of mine was trusting people too much. I would have done a spit take if I'd been drinking. I said, doc, I don't trust *anyone*...
At the happiest times of my generally unhappy life, I had a lot of people who knew me and thought well of me and me them, but maybe 1-2 people I was really close to who I thought knew the "real" me. I don't know if that's normal or healthy or what. I missed the bus on normal a long time ago. Nowadays I feel like I live on a desert island. Am I being too trusting here? Or am I really sharing anything? I don't even know. I suppose if I really wanted connection I'd do a better job of putting on a facade.
I agree that reality is infinitely more complex than any theoretical model. That said, my greatest advances came about as a result of finally understanding the mechanics of how my family functioned via 'theory'. When I realised my mum behaved like a narcissist and my dad like an abnormally enraged person unable to emotionally connect to his children, it made total sense that I was a bundle of raw nerves and seriously distorted coping mechanisms.
This business of not having any clue of what 'normal' is...I find that quite intriguing. If it means that we don't fit into a lot of mainstream expectations, I'd argue that it can be the case for people who haven't necessarily endured childhood trauma either. Every human being is obliged to find his/her 'tribe' in order to get through life - ideally it's with your family of origin, but clearly if that was messed up, you're going to have to fashion some kind of 'family' via others as best you can. it's absolutely the case that getting f*d up by your parents disadvantages you hugely, but the fundamental task of knowing who you are and being able to live in congruence with that is a challenge for everyone.
My point is that it's way too easy for us to be brutally hard on ourselves and judgmental about how egregiously 'abnormal' we are. We're way too sensitive about how others perceive us or might think about us because we've been so terribly spooked by awful parenting that we reflexively look at ourselves and wonder what the hell we've done 'wrong'. The fundamental premises that I always keep in mind are: 1) what happened to me wasn't my fault; 2) there was and is nothing inherently flawed about me; 3) I didn't deserve any of my parents' rot; 4) my main priority is myself; and 5) don't ever do things I don't want to do.
I have a whole slew of other 'assumptions' but those are the key ones that help reorient myself whenever I feel jittery and vulnerable to others. One of the hardest things for a traumatised person to do is to focus on themselves and do what works for them for their recovery without giving a shit about what anyone else thinks about that bc it goes against everything they've been brainwashed to believe (i.e. they don't count and everyone else is a priority). I suspect we also unconsciously think the 'normal' ones have their shit together...oy.
Based on the comments, y'all strike me as incredibly bright, self-aware, and capable of the kind of self-reflection and analysis that elude a lot of supposedly 'normal' folks. Please be compassionate with yourselves and appreciate how hard you've laboured to recover from horrendous suffering! that we've found community here is seriously awesome credit to our resourcefulness and will to survive and thrive. Here's to a stronger 2016 and even more mutual support and acceptance. :)
This business of not having any clue of what 'normal' is...I find that quite intriguing. If it means that we don't fit into a lot of mainstream expectations, I'd argue that it can be the case for people who haven't necessarily endured childhood trauma either. Every human being is obliged to find his/her 'tribe' in order to get through life - ideally it's with your family of origin, but clearly if that was messed up, you're going to have to fashion some kind of 'family' via others as best you can. it's absolutely the case that getting f*d up by your parents disadvantages you hugely, but the fundamental task of knowing who you are and being able to live in congruence with that is a challenge for everyone.
My point is that it's way too easy for us to be brutally hard on ourselves and judgmental about how egregiously 'abnormal' we are. We're way too sensitive about how others perceive us or might think about us because we've been so terribly spooked by awful parenting that we reflexively look at ourselves and wonder what the hell we've done 'wrong'. The fundamental premises that I always keep in mind are: 1) what happened to me wasn't my fault; 2) there was and is nothing inherently flawed about me; 3) I didn't deserve any of my parents' rot; 4) my main priority is myself; and 5) don't ever do things I don't want to do.
I have a whole slew of other 'assumptions' but those are the key ones that help reorient myself whenever I feel jittery and vulnerable to others. One of the hardest things for a traumatised person to do is to focus on themselves and do what works for them for their recovery without giving a shit about what anyone else thinks about that bc it goes against everything they've been brainwashed to believe (i.e. they don't count and everyone else is a priority). I suspect we also unconsciously think the 'normal' ones have their shit together...oy.
Based on the comments, y'all strike me as incredibly bright, self-aware, and capable of the kind of self-reflection and analysis that elude a lot of supposedly 'normal' folks. Please be compassionate with yourselves and appreciate how hard you've laboured to recover from horrendous suffering! that we've found community here is seriously awesome credit to our resourcefulness and will to survive and thrive. Here's to a stronger 2016 and even more mutual support and acceptance. :)
Actually no, not really...never quite had a clan and make very little effort to create or find a place within one. I mean, what for? But I suppose having a dog counts.
That's true...my dog really teaches me a lot more than I teach him about being in a relationship. He needs connection, contact, and fun. And mostly I'm able to respond to that. It's good for both of us.
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