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News Another Shooting In The Us
- Post starter Nicolette
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Meadowsweet
Diamond Member
I don't understand the argument for guns being to protect people from tyranny other than from an historical perspective.
But history doesn't make a logical argument for the need for guns in the general population now.
Guns don't protect individuals against corporate or individual tyranny. But if there ended up being a tyrannical government in power, then the military would be involved either for against that power.
In additiion, as the US is a country with international relationships worth money, if there were a political tyranny, it is unlikely that the world would leave it to individuals with pistols to sort out.
The statistics regarding the increased danger to innocent people due to widespread ownership of firearms, defy any argument that US citizens are safer due to having guns.
What I do understand is that to change the constitution of the people cannot be a government decision, otherwise it would undermine the very nature of the US democracy.
But thats why international discussions such as this might be of benefit. Because there are other ways to be democratic, give power to the people etc, without guns.
Ps. Anthony, every so often there is discussion with regards to getting rid of the UK monarchy, because it costs tax payers lots to keep them. There are few that are royalists from a political perspective. So the argument to keep the monarchy is based nowadays on the revenue that they bring through tourism and the role they play in diplomatic relations.
But history doesn't make a logical argument for the need for guns in the general population now.
Guns don't protect individuals against corporate or individual tyranny. But if there ended up being a tyrannical government in power, then the military would be involved either for against that power.
In additiion, as the US is a country with international relationships worth money, if there were a political tyranny, it is unlikely that the world would leave it to individuals with pistols to sort out.
The statistics regarding the increased danger to innocent people due to widespread ownership of firearms, defy any argument that US citizens are safer due to having guns.
What I do understand is that to change the constitution of the people cannot be a government decision, otherwise it would undermine the very nature of the US democracy.
But thats why international discussions such as this might be of benefit. Because there are other ways to be democratic, give power to the people etc, without guns.
Ps. Anthony, every so often there is discussion with regards to getting rid of the UK monarchy, because it costs tax payers lots to keep them. There are few that are royalists from a political perspective. So the argument to keep the monarchy is based nowadays on the revenue that they bring through tourism and the role they play in diplomatic relations.
The Albatross
VIP Member
Oh ho ho, no. I don't think I'll be considering giving a government that says, "you have to vote for the bill before you can see what's in it", or be extending presidential powers so that (for instance) it lengthens the possibility of wrecking havok like say a crippled U.S. economy by blowing 5 trillion dollars in 4 years (and thinks that borrowing $$$ from China is a good idea)... not to mention the fact that it's nearly been 4 years without a budget for the first time (pretty sure but not quite awake) in US history. 80 sitting members of our government are card carrying communists, and our current president was a member of the Socialist party. So, eh... no thanks. Not until there is some serious cleaning of Washington D.C.
I have a hard time swallowing compulsary voting.... because so many here are uninformed... but think it's a good idea... provided of course that proof of citizenship (not just a valid ID card) is required.
I though am a social moderate and a fiscal conservative. I would also prefer the Israel model, and would also (if I were Queen) institute compulsary military service and restart US citizenship and moral ethics classes in school.
There was a documentary about lifers in prison being trained to be hospice care givers and who were working in the prison medical unit. Very moving. I think that if our fiscal issues were solved and we avoid insolvency by some miracle (and if money began raining down from the sky) a lot could be done with rehabilitation for drug/alcohol and mild offenders... and psychological services for those with mental health disorders... in lieu of hard time. Could blather on a bit more, but the update has to be up by now. Be back later.
Just waiting around for the new storm update. Don't really want to wake up yet... but that jumped out at me Anthony.
I have a hard time swallowing compulsary voting.... because so many here are uninformed... but think it's a good idea... provided of course that proof of citizenship (not just a valid ID card) is required.
I though am a social moderate and a fiscal conservative. I would also prefer the Israel model, and would also (if I were Queen) institute compulsary military service and restart US citizenship and moral ethics classes in school.
There was a documentary about lifers in prison being trained to be hospice care givers and who were working in the prison medical unit. Very moving. I think that if our fiscal issues were solved and we avoid insolvency by some miracle (and if money began raining down from the sky) a lot could be done with rehabilitation for drug/alcohol and mild offenders... and psychological services for those with mental health disorders... in lieu of hard time. Could blather on a bit more, but the update has to be up by now. Be back later.
Just waiting around for the new storm update. Don't really want to wake up yet... but that jumped out at me Anthony.
The Albatross
VIP Member
P.S. Forgot to mention, law abiding Tea Party participants are "radical extremists" by our own govenment... but the counter protesters (astroturfers) were given the nod by Dems and our President. I've been watching as the cases come up in court... they are vary favorable to the defendants which is pretty amazing considering the amount of damage and violence that was tolerated without respect to publically owned parks and that law enforcements were told to stand down as private businesses were distrupted.
America is a split nation, nearly split in half. With only the independents (swinging one way or the other) steering the direction our country is heading. One can only hope that clearer heads will prevail. But until then this American isn't about to extend terms of service for policy makers in two of our three branches of our government (Supreme Court appointments are already for life) any time soon.
America is a split nation, nearly split in half. With only the independents (swinging one way or the other) steering the direction our country is heading. One can only hope that clearer heads will prevail. But until then this American isn't about to extend terms of service for policy makers in two of our three branches of our government (Supreme Court appointments are already for life) any time soon.
intothelight
Sponsor
Been perusing this thread and a few things really surprised me.
Most of the United Kingdom and their Commonwealths are governed by a Parliament, in which officials are elected. The Monarchy has very limited power, and it is definitely held in check by Parliament. Not an expert, but the UK has general elections, although different than that of the US, the citizens of the UK have a voice in their legislative decision making.
One thing when considering gun laws is the population of a country and gun related deaths as a percentage. Raw numbers do not tell the whole story.
I don't think that anyone, regardless of where in the world they live has a problem with hunting. Any country that has large rural areas and an absence of natural predators, hunting provides a real ecological need to control populations and to limit damage to the environment. Also, flat out there are areas so remote that having a gun is essential to survival. But then again, that isn't the problem...
To compare the statistics in Australia, Canada, England or a Commonwealth is very misleading. First of all, there have always been strict gun control laws, even before the 1997 buy back. There are statistics that show a decline in gun related homicides after the buy back, and no one can deny there was a decline. But gun related homicides were always a small percentage for most countries that have always had tight gun control laws, as compared to the US.
Honestly, I am not afraid of a citizen that has a registered hand gun and knows how to use and store it properly. The problem is that our society is so full of weapons that even if there is legislation that cracks down on gun ownership, the society is already flooded with them. So, those that are the least threat would turn in their weapons and those that pose the greatest threat aren't going to.
No easy answers to a very complex problem. How does a society stop violence???? No violence, no need for hand guns. Sorry, exempting hunting from this although rifles and shot guns kill too. It is that hand guns are used for most homicides.
Most of the United Kingdom and their Commonwealths are governed by a Parliament, in which officials are elected. The Monarchy has very limited power, and it is definitely held in check by Parliament. Not an expert, but the UK has general elections, although different than that of the US, the citizens of the UK have a voice in their legislative decision making.
One thing when considering gun laws is the population of a country and gun related deaths as a percentage. Raw numbers do not tell the whole story.
I don't think that anyone, regardless of where in the world they live has a problem with hunting. Any country that has large rural areas and an absence of natural predators, hunting provides a real ecological need to control populations and to limit damage to the environment. Also, flat out there are areas so remote that having a gun is essential to survival. But then again, that isn't the problem...
To compare the statistics in Australia, Canada, England or a Commonwealth is very misleading. First of all, there have always been strict gun control laws, even before the 1997 buy back. There are statistics that show a decline in gun related homicides after the buy back, and no one can deny there was a decline. But gun related homicides were always a small percentage for most countries that have always had tight gun control laws, as compared to the US.
Honestly, I am not afraid of a citizen that has a registered hand gun and knows how to use and store it properly. The problem is that our society is so full of weapons that even if there is legislation that cracks down on gun ownership, the society is already flooded with them. So, those that are the least threat would turn in their weapons and those that pose the greatest threat aren't going to.
No easy answers to a very complex problem. How does a society stop violence???? No violence, no need for hand guns. Sorry, exempting hunting from this although rifles and shot guns kill too. It is that hand guns are used for most homicides.
intothelight
Sponsor
Phillipa,
I've heard of cases where that happens, and unfortunately, alcohol is involved a lot of the time. Others are hunters not wearing the proper reflective clothing that alerts another hunter they are not prey.
Most of the time they are accidents that can be prevented.
I've heard of cases where that happens, and unfortunately, alcohol is involved a lot of the time. Others are hunters not wearing the proper reflective clothing that alerts another hunter they are not prey.
Most of the time they are accidents that can be prevented.
Do you even know what an ak 47 IS? No googling, be honest.
D
Deleted member 12723
Things are insane. People are snapping and losing it. This is happening so much. Something has to change. This is insane. People are just going nuts. They are losing their minds. I hate it, and feel so powerless and helpless.
The Albatross
VIP Member
Is it really that or is it that with multimedia the world is a much much smaller place, and stories from anywhere in most nations can literally "go around the world" in minutes?
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