Any Practical Suggestions? Work, Exhaustion, Spontaneous Si, At The End Of My Rope

[Abstract]

It hurts to see how much you have internalised the worthlessness and hurt handed to you by your family and I understand those feelings. Children develop their sense of their worth and place in the world by the way their family treats them. So instead of being to feel that it is their problem not ours we are left with their garbage and feel defective.

I think emotional and other child abuse and neglect is like "self" murder. It is a murder of a childs sense of belonging to the world and their sense of value.

I am glad you are Ok with me responding to the T stuff. :hug:

 

[Tinyflame]

It is a murder of a childs sense of belonging to the world and their sense of value.

Oh Abstract, I've lived half a lifetime (more), and couldn't hit the nail on the head as you just did, you said it. Exactly, to a 'T". Thank you.

(Might explain the S stuff too? Because, that's what it is. And especially it seems no loss when you don't feel like you belong to begin with, or have any value.)

And yes, I'd always be privileged to hear what you have to say. :)

(Hey.. now if YOU were a T, it'd be :tup::tup: ). :happy: :)

((((Dear A :hug: )))))

 

[Tinyflame]

Dear A, was thinking, I guess last night and upon waking, about the same (what you said). What I meant was that maybe it explains why (I) feel that ambivalence (as regards myself, re: S). Ambivalence because the physical step (of doing it), really is just what's already occurred- not that big a stretch. I guess like continuing, where it's been left off?

Anyway, here's something neat- we have blowing snow and cold today, I open the back door and there's a pink ballon (barely deflated- I don't know how it didn't pop!), in my patio. :confused: Hee, :cool: :p . Reminds me of someone's post, about they opened the door and found a Happy Birthday ballon- they said a new start. :)
(And my Christmas Cactus is blooming for a couple of weeks already- red this year (sometimes it's pink, or both). ) :)

:hug: (Big ones). :)

 

[Abstract]

Hi Junebug!

Ok. Here we go! Just some random thoughts to consider and dismiss or not!

1. The aim of therapy isn't to tell us how to be different and then we magically are all cured. T's do guide us with questions and points that they make and that alone makes it very different from doing it on our own. They are trained in knowing what would be helpful and can therefore steer us in a different direction. Having a human being in front of us when we deal with these things can repair our sense of trust. And when it comes to the actual trauma - speaking about it is the only way to improve intrusions and flashbacks.

2.Talking about trauma (or even non traumatic upsetting things from the past) always makes us feel worse initially and that can last for a while. Our symptoms will get much worse initially and its one of the reasons people avoid processing the past. Its normal to feel a lot of pain from talking and everyone does. Talking isn't for someone else to change things but rather for our brain to process it. Everyone feels the same to different extents with this. It is painful.

3. I think a lot of us feel shame and don't want that identity even though there are others who don't mind so much. But shame thrives in avoidance and not speaking to anyone about it to avoid shame is exactly what fuels it. Shame is improved by airing things and approaching them directly and regularly. None of us deserve shame as none of it was our fault. Shame loves dark places.

4. I can understand why it feels difficult to spend money on something painful when you have little and maybe feel hopeless about making things better. But the truth is that things can be made better by getting correct treatment. Everyone can improve if they get the correct help and do the work. Peace is worth more than anything in life and therefore T is a wise way to invest money.

5. The truth though is that hopelessness is part of the illness and we can all be helped and that is not a waste of time for everyone. T's are there to help us help ourselves so we can't waste their time.

6. It might be worth your while looking at the literature as to what improves symptoms. If you think you are made differently to other human beings then you need to look at what evidence there is for that! ;) I think we can be very different in many ways (some people find it much easier to reach out to others) but underneath it all the same recipe applies.
7.

8. When you have asked for help in the past you haven't received it and asking and not receiving is worse than not asking. ? It is for me anyway! But really one of the main aims of t is to release the emotions by speaking about it and in a place where an expert is monitoring our safety. The surest way to never be helped is to never ask for help or seek it out. ;)
9.

10. It seems maybe you are very cynical and that you see t's as people who don't really care but are earning a living and so couldn't be bothered either way. I don't know if you would be interested but I know 4 T's (not from my therapy) very well and they are totally dedicated to making a difference to peoples lives who are in emotional pain. They do care a lot. There are always bad eggs in any profession but that does not mean that they are the norm.

11. Minimizing like denial is a coping mechanism but it has limits to how much it can truly help us and can in fact do the opposite. The main thing that keeps PTSD going is avoidance. Minimizing and denial greatly fuel avoidance so stop healing. It may feel more comfortable in the short term to minimize or avoid but long term they sabotage healing. So yes you won't like someone stopping you minimizing but that is part of what it takes to get better.

12. I think almost everyone feels too far gone with this stuff and hopeless; at least at some time. Especially those of us who have grown up in dysfunctional families and childhood trauma. There isn't a healthy life and self to look back on then. But there really isn't a way of knowing you can't improve when you have never had any proper help.

I do think that maybe there are different factors involved in recovery for many of us and possibly for you.

A. First there is the trauma itself. Sexual violence, death threats, assault etc. This has to be re processed and exposure therapy done. We don't want to but we need to. If we just do it by ourselves we would never do it as it is too painful. It apparently can also be dangerous to do it by ourselves.

B. Then there is emotional abuse, verbal abuse, neglect and lack of love and protection. This results in distortions about how we see ourselves and the world and interferes with how we parent ourselves. CBT can teach us to re parent ourselves and change distorted thoughts. The more difficult that is the more potentially helpful it can be. A T listening and being there can heal some of the old pain of being un cared about and unprotected. A lot of pain can come from this stuff and isn't from the actual re experiencing stuff. It is the realm of the default shame and default self abuse. Running ourselves down. Calling ourselves names. Seeing ourselves as worthless or faulty. This is stuff that can be helped.

C. Then we get to loss and life circumstances. Exposure therapy and someone listening with compassion can help us release old emotions and feel supported and move on.

D. All of these things together can change the way our personality develops and we can therefore end up with patterns of avoidance and distrust of people and social phobia (such as in Avoidant Personality Disorder), or with anger issues and feeling desperate for human contact (Borderline Personality Disorder) etc etc. Dealing with these things takes longer but they can also get better. But they are different to dealing with trauma itself and are more about how we relate to ourselves and to other people. That can slow down and interfere with how we do the rest but even though it makes it difficult it is still possible and done all the time.

Here is an eccentric analogy for you:
If the painful experiences of the past (emotional abuse and loss) are like boils in our body and the trauma is like big boils encased in steel then what we tend to do is protect them from being touched on as it is painful. When we hit the steel encased ones we feel we are a boil and are consumed my the pain.

But getting better means lancing the boils. When we lance then it is excruciating but it is the only way to get better. Once they are lanced they lave a scar but dont affect us in the same way.

Continuing to protect them doesn't change anything at all.

Hows that for information overload!:oops::)

And I think the not being loved and protected as child can so affect S stuff and is life destroying. And I love the pink balloon. :shy:

 

[Tinyflame]

Thank you Abstract, for all your kindness and trouble.

Yes, what you've said makes sense, wish it didn't take such a leap required from paper to behaviour. :(

Though I have read much on controlling the symptoms, and through trial and error, I guess I never expected them to come back with a vengeance and be resistant to what worked before.

And I don't mean to sound cynical, perhaps it's something people in Health Care see, or hear a lot (to the contrary). Generalizations are a fallacy, of course. Am sure there are easier careers to choose.

Yes, what an analogy, lol :wtf:. Wish there were antibiotics!

Not sure, I think perhaps it's in combination with options, and contingent with what is already going on, and the state of life I'm at. I don't think it's a question of a personality disorder, more so partly a choice (in so far as choices can be made), to not delve into it any deeper than I have to. For example, it quite took me off guard when my trust in a family member (a decent one) got shattered years ago. It took some time to get over it, and I don't think it's actually prudent to restore it (beyond the apprehension, etc. ) What I mean is, it was a learning curve.

Similarly, my analogy would be a person's dog dies. Some ('normal') people don't get another; I can understand why.

However, I have some peace. I don't feel angry at most things, for whatever reason that is.

Who knows how much is avoidance, or hopelessness. I am sure, as I did (in my 20's), I would feel it as more of a worthwhile investment if I was younger, had critical decisions ahead of me such as future plans, or it affected others (family, a spouse, etc).

You are very kind, Sweet and dear A. ((((( :hug: )))))

 

[Tinyflame]

I guess this is just talking out loud, feels a little surreal, and stupid.

Was thinking, maybe I've always thought it's so much my responsibility and obligation to fix this (me), it never occurred to me that someone else could help with it. Though sometimes I wished someone could, come up with something that is . I couldn't.

In fact, I can't. At one level I'm grateful and aware that nothing can be taken for granted. On another level, and equally, I feel at the end of the line.Beyond thoroughly spent but more so depleted and finished. Mentally, emotionally, physically. Not depressed but broken down and apart. Not temporary but over-all. I think denial made me try to say otherwise, to myself. But in my heart I know it. It's frightening. In another way it's like being at the end of the line of a long disease. I wonder if this is the way it goes.

 

[Tinyflame]

I think part of what is true, (and also helps), is that I have to deal with the stress that is seperate from the ptsd. Like Anthony said about needing stability to work on trauma.

And also not to (or to learn how not to) panic, that is bring the adrenaline levels down, just 'do', whether that doing involves trust, or change of thoughts, etc. That it is not all cognitive, or not always the time for cognitive appraisals, to get stable and 'live' and 'be' instead (come what may). Even if inevitably it may be baby steps, or backwards steps.

Was thinking in church, or after a few times of what I've heard- and this is not religious or anything, just that it helps so much also, for me, I think because of the very reason others oftentimes don't care for it: to me it is not 'words' unrelated to what I'm living, but relates to (my) life and exactly (what I am) living. Not talking 'about' something hypothetically, or as just good thoughts or theories or ideals, but conversely identifying, thinking and applying what to do while being in it. More 'with me' than something I relate to or hear apart from me. And I guess, not just 'intellectually' what sound like good idea, or sane practical 'tips' and techniques, but rather that God is currently 'there' along on the journey. Directly and through others. So it is very practical. :) I hope that makes sense.

What reminded me also, is how different I am. For example, I used to hate that picture of the Agony (praying) in the Garden. For years now though I love it, one of my favorites. Because when you're in the 'garden' as it were, it's comforting. Somewhere it makes more sense. That gives me some peace, strength.

 

[Abstract]

Dear Junebug, :hug:

I find my symptoms are much easier to deal with when my life is under control. I could no longer do a full time job and definitely would not be able to manage the type of stress you are under without imploding. I also would not be able to live with someone who was emotionally abusive and undermining. The cup then fills up and overflows and that aggravates everything.

But a lot of the help I have received in my life in the past has been to do with the so called little t trauma stuff and general ways of coping and thinking. And that has changed my life very much in so many ways. A lot of that stuff is very painful and life damaging in so many ways and is separate to the trauma. It always comes along for the ride with it as we inevitably pick up these injuries too. It damages the way we think about ourselves and the way we relate to the world and the way we cope with things. It is different to the actual trauma but does also have its own impact and I think often gets in the way of us dealing with trauma too.

 

[Abstract]

And I am very glad you find some comfort and help in your spirituality. :):inlove:

 

[Tinyflame]

Dear Abstract, I whole-heartedly agree with all you've said.

Your words make me feel better, too. Normally I would blame myself for not being able to get out of the situation, or not handle it well enough, that I *could*/ *should* be able to do better. Not what I have managed. Thank you Dear Abstract :hug: :inlove:.

 

[Abstract]

:inlove::hug::geek:

 

[Tinyflame]

I was thinking, like Abstract said 'this can't be my life', but in the opposite. It is so very much my life and has been.

Like it came to me, even under 'good' circumstances, someone had said fear of loved ones dying. But then I thought, I lived with that so long, but it was a rational and realistic fear, in the way that they were told they could 'go' at any time. I mean, any of us could, but with their illnesses, the odds were likely (off-the-charts). And if they were told they should be dead 10 years before they were diagnosed, how does a lack of a diagnosis (for a loved one) bring me any security, then?

But I was thinking I like Christmas, and Christmas was when we found out that news about my mom. Were very close. But I/we 'carried on', from the outside it might have appeared like denial or somewhat emotionless. It was wholly the opposite. But knowing the reality, and letting yourself cave in to it, well you'd go crazy or couldn't function. It is like a war zone in a little way, the reality is always there. Here now gone in a minute. This wasn't once, it was also my whole childhood, at one level. And 4 family members, 6 really, well 7. My fears have not been generalized or unrational- in terms of facts they were just the fear (reality) of the moment.

Let alone the close calls of my own, they seemed like nothing. Including the self-destructive stuff. You lose fear when you have lived through worse things. Well lose fear of some things.

And that doesn't cover the other realities of stuff that happened, or I caused by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, I was or they were the wrong person, Idk.

I don't think I can unwind or un-become what I am. People always say I'm 'so different', or when we get to know each other that I think differently. Beyond the obvious, trigger management and self-destructive behaviours, how can I ever think differently when it is all that I've ever known and lived? :sorry: :(