Other Body dysphoria

[Upside Down Eagle]

Hi peeps! :) *waves*

I have dodged the forum for a bit, because I felt I needed to stop dwelling on my own trauma - related thoughts. I still experience your usual crisis moments where I feel like I'm about to die, but (to my own surprise) I recover every time. Like we say in Dutch: "bad weeds don't perish".

Anyway, now I have something new to think about. I always figured that the discomfort I have with my body is related to trauma, but now I'm not so sure anymore. Yesterday I found out that it actually has a name, this discomfort, it's usually called dysphoria and more common in genderfluid/transgender people.

I'm at a crossroads. I have always felt genderfluid as opposed to being a woman or man (I feel like both), but now I'm not sure where this is coming from. Is it trauma related, and am I just running from my own gender because my own gender has physically betrayed me (i.e being feminine, it can be invaded)?

I am smirking right now because I just thought "why am I so complicated?". I am actually losing some people in my life because I am "too complicated for them", they can't handle the fact that I am not straightforward, that I am almost thirty and yet still questioning everything, instead of becoming "defined".

Have any of you ever experienced anything like this?
I don't expect you to give me the solution, haha. I guess I am just rummaging around in my own brain, and in the meantime looking for people who might have any comments or experiences of their own.

 

[Go Hungry]

Welcome back! :)

And hmm.. Okay. Well that's really hard to say. Keep in mind that gender and sex are too different things. Sex relates to the anatomical reproductive parts that you were born with. Gender has more to do with cultural assumptions as to what a person of the male or female sexes should behave. So you're feeling like your gender doesn't match the sex that you were born into... Well.. okay it's tough. Since gender is a cultural phenomenon, it's not uncommon at all for someone to question it, especially if they question cultural assumptions in other ways.

You spoke about being 30 yet still questioning everything. There's nothing wrong with that. People get 'defined' on their own timetable, not that of others. And definition is a pretty weird thing too. I mean, I've always been mostly straight, overwhelming so in fact (one of my alt's though, is bi) but all of us are male. Yet a great deal of people always thought I was gay, simply because I didn't fit their ideas of what being a male was. I think it was largely because I was enraptured by beauty in all it's forms. I liked things that boys aren't supposed to like, played with toys that were for girls, liked jewelry and flutes, etc. The biggest trouble, I think, was just that I was a born city-boy being raised in a town of rednecks. There was simply too great a divide between myself and the world in which my peer group lived.

Sorry about the tangent. Anyway, it could be related to your trauma in some way, but even if it is, that's still okay. Lots of people are questing for something in life, no matter what their age.

 

[Hope4Now]

Hi Radise. You might take a look at this thread: https://www.myptsd.com/threads/the-impact-of-childhood-sexual-abuse-on-my-sexuality.40678/

I am struggling with similar issues...and I'm 51 :wideeyed:. I don't know if my "dysphoria" as the DSM used to call it is biological or cultural or abuse-caused. I am fairly certain it is some combination of all of these (you know...nature/nurture). I feel lucky to live in a time and place where these issues are more out in the open than they used to be, but it doesn't make any of it much easier to sort out. I would like more than anything in the world to feel comfortable living inside my body (or at least connected to it) more often.

 

[Anarchy]

Hi Radise, and welcome back from the forum holiday :hug:

You were far more successful in having a holiday and staying away than I was. About all that my attempt amounted to was some good intentions that never got anywhere:sorry:

The trans sexual who I knew best, did have some serious sex abuse trauma from their early years, but through their twenties and thirties was transvestite rather than trans sexual, and didn't express a dislike of body parts, or gender, but did idolize the gender they wanted to be. I've not had a deep conversation with them since their [ch]operation. but, I think it is worth noting that the decision to go for the [ch]op' was taken in their mid forties and after a trauma (a difficult and dangerous recovery of the dead body of an acquaintance) so, mid life crisis and probably very symptomatic with PTSD at the same time.

before the op, the two gennder alters had very different personalities, the one that matched the physical gender was quiet and could be depressive, the trans one was loud, in your face and a party person. I often wonder if the one alter was allowed to go in the hope that it would take the trauma and sadness with it. a sort of living suicide? I don't know whether that one distant example tells you anything.

I picked a book up back in the autumn that I've still to properly get into; "Boundaries in the mind" can't remember the author. It was looking at the contrast between people who have a strongly defined idea of self and very hard rigid boundaries, and people who have a much less well defined idea of self, are more open to different experiences and have much softer less well defined boundaries.

I think the author was trying to extend that into some great unifying theory... but at that basic level, it does give something interesting to think about for those of us with complex early trauma and the dysregulation of self which that causes. How could we form a strong and definite idea of self when the "reflection" we saw of that self in others kept changing so wildly and in such dangerous ways? and is it any surprise if that uncertainty of self and fear of imminent danger related to that, extends to the few and small parts that define us as male or female? even if those parts were never part of the many and varied traumas.

:hug:@

 

[Biz]

Radise, I get where you're coming from. I'm in my late 20s and I haven't defined all that much either; hopefully you'll find some more folks who are supportive of that (Idt it's all that uncommon to remain in flux).
I identify as non-binary gendered too. I have since I was very little. There's this great writer, Kate Bornstein who is trans and a gender theorist and writes very approachably. Her book Gender Workbook has a lot of info and exercises that may help you feel more defined in your choice to not define. :). She says that really all of us do this. We slightly change our gender and gender attitudes over time. Some men soften in a more feminine way, some women feel or act more masculine, many of us change our style and how feminine or masculine we'd like to present.
For me, my gender identity could be trauma or attachment related but I don't care. It feels deeply a part of who I am. I don't need to define and I'm open to it shifting as I do my therapeutic work. And while it's hard to be in between and esp when you express in between, there's also a lot of space there to not have to define and to move within.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

@Hope4Now thanks for the link! :happy:. Yeah, I feel a lot like @Bedbug describes in that post, and I would love to hear from her how she's feeling about it now (if she wants to ;)).

Like her, my abuser was a woman, and it could be that because of her I developed some rather misogynistic world views. I was thinking about it yesterday and suddenly I realized that sometimes I do have an irrational hate for women, even though in real life (and online) I know women who are actually pretty cool and completely contradict by negative stereotypes.

I was reading a blog about a woman who converted to man yesterday, which opened my eyes to a lot. She says that once she became a dude, suddenly people would "give her a firm handshake", or "trust his intentions to be strong", and "trusted his gait". I envy that. I want to be seen by people as exactly this. I want people to trust in my strength, instead of treating me with some kind of emphatic endearment.

The trans sexual who I knew best, did have some serious sex abuse trauma from their early years, but through their twenties and thirties was transvestite rather than trans sexual, and didn't express a dislike of body parts, or gender,

It's interesting that these people would be the ones who suffered abuse. I'm not saying it's a causal relationship, but still apparently can be related. I have no adoration for the other sex, and I have no intentions of becoming male. But I do very much have this incredible loathing of female body parts. I'm not the only one, there was another topic on here about hating and actively self-harming for this reason...

Her book Gender Workbook has a lot of info and exercises that may help you feel more defined in your choice to not define.

I love this! :D Gonna look it up. Thanks and I'm glad to hear that there are more people "out there" who feel this way! :)

 

[Ronin]

I've learned to mostly address what's bugging me instead of going whole the chicken or egg deal because well, that'd mean the dysphoria is still there, and I run in circles over something I could just let go and invest the energy elsewhere. I'm not even as bothered about my body as I am with what people did to that body and assume about my personhood/lack of for that body. (Not having been permitted to drive because 'a woman'? Just great. :D Way more hurting things because I was apparently more interesting man to someone's wished girlfriend than that person? Another fuun. Most days, I just laugh about it, but it's less fun when stuck in the situation for quite a while.)

But yeah, you're definitely not the only one out there, and a search for comfort? Is valid. Having people to talk to about this, like with any problem(-atic stuff), can be rather helpful. Good luck on your journey and may you get where you need to be with this road. :tup:

 

[WildMermaid]

When I was tiny I wanted to be a boy, and quite truly thought I was, as I liked girls better than boys. As I grew up I just realized that I liked both and identified as bisexual and I no longer wish to change my gender. That said, gender and sexuality are fluid and just follow that path wherever it leads you. :hug:

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

Haha I'm just in a world of major confusion right now :P Yesterday I went out to the supermarket looking like a dude (experimenting), and walked into my neighbor, very awkward moment xD

It would be great if people didn't identify me as a woman or man. I feel like neither. The most intense desire I have in that regard is to be seen as "just me", Radise, nothing more and nothing less. My body isn't really helping in that respect. I guess I'll figure it out at some point.

 

[Anarchy]

Hi Radise, I'm not looking for a reply on this, just suggesting them as thoughts

Is the feeling there constantly or is it something which follows from a trigger?

You've written before about attracting attention that you don't want. Is that a trigger for this?

If that is the case, can that be counter balanced by knowing that you have also attracted attention that you did like? and upping your skills at getting rid of attention that you don't like (I'm hoping that this comment isn't an example of attention that you don't like :nailbiting:)

Thinking about my own experience, my feelings of loss, anger and resentment, and the physical discomfort do seem to be more of a triggered thing than a most of the time thing (although the discomfort does remind me of the other feelings).

I don't think I ever wanted "not to be" but I was slightly jealous of my partners of both sexes, for being complete, and in that sense would have been happy to have had a full set of either sort of body parts.

 

[Anarchy]

Yesterday I went out to the supermarket looking like a dude (experimenting), and walked into my neighbor, very awkward moment xD

Love it
Hope the disguise didn't include a hairy chest wig :p

TS friend is approx 2m tall (over 6' 6") - bare footed. Add some high heels and a fluffy hair style (she's naturally strawberry blonde) and there's another 15 to 20 cm (over 7'). Imagine that, in a sequined party dress, at high speed, feet off the ground, racing down the aisles of the local supermarket, on a trolley.

Careful doing the "androgenous", it can be very attractive, especially with pronounced bone structure, and slim build. That said, have you seen the scandinavian "girl with the dragon tattoo" trilogy? in the second one, Noomi Rapace manages to make a very ugly teenage male with a hoody and baseball cap.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

Heheh Neh, I just wear sports gear and layers. And since my sides are shaven up now, when I wear a baseball cap, it looks like I have very (very) short hair. ;)

I am an absolute fan of the Girl With the Dragon Tattoo and in fact been told by several people that I look like her. Also, I'm not a stranger to the hoody and baseball cap combi: I used to look like that in my teens :P It wouldn't be a problem for me if the androgynous thing was very attractive. I have issues with being attractive just as a female.

Well I just "confessed" to someone I know in real life and asked for her opinion (she's gay and kind of gender-fluid too). I felt so nervous I could puke :P Funny how this still is a big deal. Even though I'm not coming out as trans or gay...