Emdr Questions; Been In ~10 Sessions

[Tif]

Yes! It's like that--you do what you're comfortable with and not more. But as with any therapy, it's more effective if you push yourself a bit (under the advice of your therapist of course!).

Also, if moving your eyes is a problem, they can also use tapping to facilitate the same response. My T says to tell her if my eyes get tired, and she can tap my knees back and forth, the same speed she'd move her fingers, and the therapy works the same way.

And all of my safest places have been imaginary. I've never felt safe anywhere in my life, so a fantasy place is the only kind I could find to feel safe in. I know some people /do/ use real places, but you definitely don't have to.

 

[Maggiemay]

Hug!

Once again Tif, thanks for the wisdom ;) xxx

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes thank you Tif, you sound like a pro. :tup: :)

I was thinking, some stranger tapping my knees would put my anxiety level through the roof! Lol. I think 'the eyes have it'. Actually, similar to grounding- for example the other day I was looking for 5 blue things (random choice of color)- must have looked a bit 'nuts' looking all around but amazing how hard it was to find! A similar concept in a sense though, distracting one part of one's thoughts, reducing anxiety and perhaps freeing up other thoughts. I find the same walking actually I think. It's almost like I've found (accidentally) a semi-version of emdr, minus anyone else having to hear the stuff. But in a sense otherwise the same type of process.

Was also thinking, I saw (irrespective of this avatar!) the sweetest photo (close up) of a (real) baby deer with huge brown eyes, sniffing a red and yellow flower, somewhere it reminds me of what is (that there is so much) good in the world, what is gentle, beautiful etc, not harsh or violent or cruel etc. To me that is a 'safe place'- to recall it. Just for myself, sort of a recognition that even despite being unable to conjure up a safe place proper (even an imaginary one- I'm too pragmatic or something), the awareness of what is 'safe' always present amidst what isn't. In that way, I don't have to deny or ignore that the other is most-often present (or feels lke it), I just have to remember that (and that feeling), the awareness of such good also (always) present. Like finding the eye of the hurricane, accepting the hurricane is there but finding or seeking the center point. (Again, if that makes sense).

:hug: for you, if that's ok, for your help. Good luck with your sessions! :)

 

[Tif]

(((Hugs))) back for both of you!!

June: I DO remember hearing about one that involved small vibrators in your hands that would buzz at intervals, back-forth-back-forth. That might be a good middle ground for you!

 

[Deleted member 16646]

I've posted the following a few times on this site and people often find it helpful...

I'm a psychologist who uses EMDR as my primary treatment psychotherapy and I've also personally had EMDR therapy for anxiety, panic, grief, and “small t” trauma. As a client, EMDR worked extremely well and also really fast. As an EMDR therapist, and in my role as a facilitator who trains other therapists in EMDR (certified by the EMDR International Assoc. and trained by the EMDR Inst, both of which I strongly recommend in an EMDR therapist) I have used EMDR successfully with panic disorders, childhood sexual/physical/emotional abuse and neglect, single incident trauma and complex/chronic PTSD, anxiety, depression, grief, body image, phobias, distressing memories, bad dreams and more...

It's really crucial that the therapist spends enough time in one of the initial phases (Phase 2) in EMDR that involves preparing for memory processing or desensitization (memory processing or desensitization - phases 3-6 - is often referred to as "EMDR" which is actually an 8-phase psychotherapy). In this phase resources are "front-loaded" so that you have a "floor" or "container" to help with processing the really hard stuff. In Phase 2 you learn a lot of great coping strategies and self-soothing techniques which you can use during EMDR processing or anytime you feel the need. So if you start feeling overwhelmed or that it's too intense, you can ground yourself (with your therapist's help in session, and on your own between sessions) and feel safe enough to continue the work. In my practice, after the Phase 2 work lets us know that my patient is safe enough and able to cope with any emotion and/or physical sensation both during and between EMDR processing sessions, I often suggest we try a much less intense memory first if there is one that happened BEFORE the trauma(s). If there isn't one, then I suggest we start developmentally with the least disturbing memory and work our way "up" to the most disturbing event(s).

Grounding exercises are indispensable in everyday life, and really essential in stressful times. Anyone can use some of the techniques in Dr. Shapiro's new book "Getting Past Your Past: Take Control of Your Life with Self-Help Techniques from EMDR." Dr. Shapiro is the founder/creator of EMDR but all the proceeds from the book go to two charities: the EMDR Humanitarian Assistance Program and the EMDR Research Foundation). Anyway, the book is terrific. It's an easy read, helps you understand what's "pushing" your feelings and behavior, helps you connect the dots from past experiences to current life. Also teaches readers lots of helpful techniques that can be used immediately and that are also used during EMDR therapy to calm disturbing thoughts and feelings.

As I’ve mentioned about Phase 2, during EMDR therapy you learn coping strategies and self-soothing techniques. You learn how to access a “Safe or Calm Place” which you can use at ANY TIME during EMDR processing (or on your own) if it feels scary, or too emotional, too intense. There are other kinds of Resource Development strategies that can be used depending on the skill level and experience of your therapist (Google "Resource development and installation" and find articles by Janina Fisher, Debbie Korn, and/or Andrew Leeds, ask about John Omaha's AMST - Affect Management Skills Training, or the Imaginal Nurturing protocol).

One of the key assets of EMDR is that YOU, the client, are in control NOW, even though you likely were not during past events. You NEVER need re-live an experience or go into great detail, ever! You NEVER need to go through the entire memory. YOU can decide to keep the lights (or the alternating sounds and/or tactile pulsars, or the waving hand, or hand/knee tapping - all forms of bilateral stimulation that should be decided by the client for the client's comfort) going, or stop them, whichever helps titrate – measure and adjust the balance or “dose“ of the processing. During EMDR processing there are regular “breaks” and you can control when and how many but the therapist should be stopping the bilateral stimulation every 25-50 or so passes of the lights to ask you to take a deep breath and to say just a bit of what you’re noticing. The breaks help keep a “foot in the present” while you’re processing the past. Again, and I can’t say this enough, YOU ARE IN CHARGE so YOU can make the process tolerable. And your therapist should be experienced in the EMDR techniques that help make it the gentlest and safest way to neutralize bad life experiences and build resources.

Pacing and dosing are critically important. So if you ever feel that EMDR processing is too intense then it might be time to go back over all the resources that should be used both IN session and BETWEEN sessions. Your therapist should be using a variety of techniques to make painful processing less painful, like suggesting you turn the scene in your mind to black and white, lower the volume, or, erect a bullet-proof glass wall between you and the painful scene, or, imagine the abuser speaking in a Donald Duck voice... and so forth. There are a lot of these kinds of "interventions" that ease the processing. They are called "cognitive interweaves" that your therapist can use, and that also can help bring your adult self's perspective into the work (or even an imaginary Adult Perspective). Such interweaves are based around issues of Safety, Responsibility, and Choice. So therapist questions like "are you safe now?" or "who was responsible? and "do you have more choices now?" are all very helpful in moving the processing along.

In addition to my therapy practice, I roam the web looking for EMDR discussions, try to answer questions about it posted by clients/patients, and respond to the critics out there. It's not a cure-all therapy. However, it really is an extraordinary psychotherapy and its results last. In the hands of a really experienced EMDR therapist, it's the most gentle way of working through disturbing experiences.

 

[Luke]

Thanks Tif, this is of interest to me. EMDR was recommended to me like it was a prized vintage Merlot from the Holy Grail itself! It seemed knee-jerk & quixotically optimistic that it could "cure" me as enthusiastically advertised. "Cure", was what she said.

My Mom had her Floridian neighbors convinced she was destitute, & they were paying for her cable & electric bills each month (& who knows what else) while she had hundreds of thousands in the bank (all of which she donated to museums who gave her certificates of appreciation every time she made a donation, in her will). I offered to pay them back. They wouldn't accept my recompense. They just shrugged & smiled at me over being duped. They just seemed content to have met me, &to have solved the mystery of who I am (contrasting my Mother's rampant aspersions), & what she was.

Just one last question, does a 'safe place' have to be real, or a 'fantasy' one? I can't think of anywhere I could feel that relaxed.

I have GREAT difficulty with this notion. I survived in the vigilant yet blase reality that there was no "safe" place for me. Only varying degrees of danger. I took up dangerous sports (I could do with others yet primarily on my own) because they became my "safe" place I suppose. Intellectual pursuits left me feeling more alone, more removed in this insidious separation, whereas the preoccupation, & not with personal safety, but the stimuli incurred by & with such sports & the endorphins they provided along with the minor sense of accomplishment in mastering some skills involved with them... & maybe I've just answered that question as to a "safe" place. Only now, especially since catching someone 10 years ago & tearing up my spine, those pursuits & that "place" are difficult to recapture. The sense of accomplishment is also lost. Not to mention, with my assorted & numerous physical ails, those "safe" place sports, have become exponentially more dangerous if & when I attempt accommodations & perseverance therein. WOW! Babble. My apologies....

I was thinking, some stranger tapping my knees would put my anxiety level through the roof!

I concur. I would immediately just think of something & somewhere else, or dissociate for the duration, while still trying to remain considerate to the practitioner & respectful of the process.

Like finding the eye of the hurricane, accepting the hurricane is there but finding or seeking the center point. (Again, if that makes sense)

It makes perfect sense. I have expressed similar visualizations to illustrate my ambivalence regarding the vacillating desires to either fight through the tempestuous recollections & find the "eye" (as you say), or merely continue to evade the storm on the outskirts of my disturbing memories. I feel as tho, I may not be able to travel within the "eye", once I've found it, & may be lost without a raincoat in these vivid recapitulations.

I was told to find someone "accredited" or whatnot... but by whom or "what"? Easy for her (the therapist to say). "Go do this! (Big smile)". Yeah, but then what? Where? & With whom?

How does one find such an "accredited" practitioner? Can or will they incorporate "talk" into & around the EMDR? Can I even afford this (even through insurance)? All I have are questions. These are the vague vagaries of vacillating volition that have me a bit befuddled as to how one goes about even beginning EMDR.

Thanks again Tif, for your insights, & thank you pattijane for the explanation.

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes Luke I agree also. Very much relate to respectfully attempting to hide what is not effective (or horribly ucomfortable)!

I think allowing ourselves to feel safe seems to go contrary to the logic of ptsd. Therefore necessary and an achievment in and of itself. :)

 

[Tinyflame]

I have expressed similar visualizations to illustrate my ambivalence regarding the vacillating desires to either fight through the tempestuous recollections & find the "eye" (as you say), or merely continue to evade the storm on the outskirts of my disturbing memories. I feel as tho, I may not be able to travel within the "eye", once I've found it, & may be lost without a raincoat in these vivid recapitulations.

I'm not sure if I would call that 'ambivalence', though it may present as such on the surface. Could it be a combination of denial, fear of the unknown (including traumatic memories or revisiting such), exhaustion or dread or the inability of imagining having enough strength to do it or bear more sorrow, or furtherde-stabilizing? Maybe any of these things or others unique to you?

Best wishes, ignore if it's not helpful!

 

[Luke]

Your opinion is valid & appreciated. You certainly have a point. I say "ambivalence"... but I do seem to hold a cynical preconception. I know I want & need to "improve" (especially as I am insidiously getting worse over the last decade or so), but I can't seem to do it for myself. Then I feel railroaded when others prompt me to deal with my mental scars & reach for my potential or whatnot.

Sure, it's denial, it's fear of having to face & acknowledge what are most likely even more brutal recollections & violations of my innocence, & it's exhaustion. I'm kinda on my last legs these days. I haven't slept more than 4 hours at a time in nearly a year. It's pretty ugly (oxymoron withstanding).

I... feel like maybe I may need to just dissociate myself from all of it until the next turbulent event, if I'm gonna make it through to the next calendar year. Just go back to blocking it, & everyone, out in my own amiable fashion. Relating to everyone, while still protecting myself in a microcosm of denial as to my value both meritorious & deleterious depending on the vantage point(s).

It didn't help that the EMDR was mentioned around &/or in conjunction to "relationships", & it didn't help that the therapist was very familiar (as a recent patient as it turned out) with someone who found me admirable yet evasive, & she obviously had that subjective history (however objective she may have remained despite) in her motivations & inquiries. It's OK. I admire this woman (the patient).

I don't even know how I was blindsided by it (her relationship with the therapist) as I was, or why it even bothered me when this was quickly ascertained. I probably just should have embraced it, & spoke openly to this affinity, but I recoiled & grew laconic & evasive towards anything that even brushed the subject where she could be even vaguely mentioned or involved. It felt like an impropriety. Not to mention, an awkward spot for the therapist.

Then again, that was likely all projection. She didn't seem to mind. I became my usual bullsh*t self & evaded her inquiries about nearly everything. That was what I was referring to in that other thread. My own direct experience, with my own truncated therapy (I have had therapy before but it was mostly just an elongated version of my same defenses) this past spring. I wasted her time, & my money. A whole whopping three sessions, as it were. It was all extremely congenial, despite my rampant & beastly yet understated & nearly demure little gargantuan trust issues (,which also play into my apprehensions with EMDR).

Anyway, I'm trying to be open-minded. The "cure" thing startled me however. I am open-minded to EMDR, regardless of how it may seem.

I am interested in opinions & first hand experiences as to this practice.

I think I'm going to move on from posting in these forums. Apparently, I was misconstrued of late, & this I regret. I think I need to just decide to head into the storm or remain ahead or at least abreast of "its" path, & cease expounding on the contradictions I epitomize.

Thanks for your insight. I'll check in as a guest on this from time to time.

 

[Tinyflame]

I think you should persevere in tryin EMDR or another modality. As long as you yourself are willing (and ready) to not BS. To try to be vulnerable or unguarded and honest. "Open to try" I guess is the way to put it.

I respect your decision as per the forum; do what is right for you. However, I hope you realize you've done nothing wrong, it's designed to be triggering for others (and ourselves). That's what makes it more helpful or useful. I can't help but thinking of the quote, "herein lies the greatest treason; to do the right thing for the wrong reason". People need your expertise (as a sufferer), wisdom and support. Everyone does better with it (you as well).

Thank you for it. :hug:

 

[LizardViolet]

Tif, thank you so much for sharing your experiences. I am not at all surprised that you got sick, with all that you have going on. I'm glad to hear that your therapist is continuing to work with you. She (she?) sounds like an excellent help.

I'm a supporter in a relationship with a sufferer with untreated complex PTSD who is also an active alcoholic. I have been through EMDR, earlier this year, for a small "t" trauma and I'll be going back for some more sessions in the coming weeks, as I've been experiencing more symptoms lately. I found it to be extremely effective.

Junebug, your five blue things grounding exercise is a great tool. Looking for specific colors around me is a technique my EMDR therapist taught me early on.

And if you can't imagine a safe physical space, certainly you could find safety and comfort in the company of that baby deer, surrounded by flowers. That works.

Luke, I hope you can look beyond WHO it was that suggested EMDR to you, and perhaps look into it for yourself. Francine Shapiro has two good books about it: EMDR (originally published in 1997, updated in 2005), and Getting Past Your Past. There are also various threads here that talk about it. pattijane's post above provides a good overview and introduction. If you have a diagnosis of PTSD, it is possible that insurance might cover the cost.

You can find a certified therapist by searching online for the organization EMDR International Association. They have an online list of therapists who are trained and experienced.

 

[BloomInWinter]

Luke,

No therapy time is truly ever wasted. Even if I feel like I've gotten nothing accomplished according to the list in my own head, my trauma therapist pointed out that we are always working on our therapeutic relationship.

When we sufferers are getting triggered in EMDR, or regular appointments, (or have a lot of symptoms after), it is crucial to tell our therapist so they can not only help us in the moment, but also use that as an opportunity to learn skills for regulating our emotions. If we just walk away, there's no benefit.

You've mentioned a lot of things that your therapist really needs to hear to be able to give you the most effective treatment. Being honest with my therapists has been very frightening, painful, and immensely helpful.

You can always walk away, but the issues will still be there. Now that I'm a few years into treatment, I can look back and clearly remember being at the place you are at. I had to learn skills for distress tolerance, grounding, affect regulation, and many other skills that I did not learn in my family of origin.

I did Dialectical-Behavioral-Therapy (DBT) for a year and a half. The skills in there have been truly a miracle in my life. I feel better about myself in all areas. I know my "self" and can advocate for myself now. I can stand up to bullies, extricate myself from unhealthy people, and actually enjoy people now.

It's a long journey and I'm still barely begun, but I wanted to tell you not to give up. Hope is right up ahead of you. Keep valuing yourself and trust yourself that you can deal with this. You made it through your traumas. They aren't going to happen again.

Hang in there.