Finding Meaning In This Madness

[shimmerz]

I was raised Catholic. Right into it as a child and rejected it as a pre-teen. I think the catalyst for that was asking my adopted Dad 'Did my twin sister (dead at the hands of my birth parents) go to heaven?' 'No'. he responded, 'she wasn't baptized'. I immediately countered, 'But it wasn't her fault she died'. I will never forget the anger that came across my father's normally loving face. 'You don't question, you just accept the way it is'. I turned against god that day forever. My home life was never the same. Shattered, because I dared to question the powers that be. The concept of god as 'an ever loving being' was forever gone.

I am however, a naturally spiritual person for whatever reason. So I looked for different religions but they all worshiped this god that I had learned to mistrust. Eventually I turned to the 'universe'. It explained to me the 'evil' in this world that I couldn't wrap my head around an ever loving god being allowed to happen. I get that now. But still I was searching for something. I don't know why.

Fast forward to when I came back from California. My friend, Shaman and fellow 'spiritual chick' kept trying to tell me that the 'universe is a mysterious thing' in explanation for yet another disaster happening in my life. I freaked on her, over and over. The more she tried to tell me that there was purpose or some divine plan (I read that as - with me being the scapegoat in it) the more infuriated I got. Luckily we are good friends and she is sticking by me. I have conditioned her, however to stop talking about this crap to me. I am done with it. Forever.

I feel like I am as angry at the universe as I am at god. That I will never be able to understand the meaning behind all of this. I feel like I used it to have faith that all of this would be work out if I just kept trying. But then I thought to myself, if the universe and god are so kick ass then why the hell did all of this happen to me when I didn't have a chance (at 4 days old) to protect myself.

The universe doesn't love me, god doesn't love me, no higher being freaking loves me! Stop adding to the conflict that resides in me by giving me these hairy fairy stories of how I was so 'loved'. There was no love there. I feel like this was a lie, like all the other lies (like 'I am beating the crap out of you because I love you'. or 'you will thank me for this one day') Well that day has come and I have to be honest, I can't think of anyone to thank at this moment in time, especially the omni-potent up in the sky ones.

So then, if it wasn't about love from these divine beings, where is the meaning in all of this? What is this for? Why me and not the kid next door (not that I want it to happen to anyone else). I am not looking for pity stuff here, I am seriously questioning what the meaning is here. And if there is no meaning does that mean there is no purpose? Do I need purpose and meaning to heal? By focusing on god and universal crap am I just again, externalizing who I am doing this for rather than doing it just for me?

Sorry, don't mean to offend anyone's beliefs at all, I am just seriously having a hard time with this. tbph, I feel like all of these religious and spiritual beings can go to hell and back, just like I did. What kind of 'love' does that? It is so much easier to see this as a 'me against the world' thing rather than 'I am loved and this is how that love is shown to me' type of construct. Fed up!

 

[Rumors]

I certainly am not one to throw bricks at glass houses, however what your adopted dad is saying about not going to heaven bc she wasn't baptized is like saying you can't win the miss America pageant bc you have red hair! That, in my opinion is not how it goes! In my world, God loves children PERIOD! They are void of all the chaotic choices adults make so therefore they have a free pass to Heaven no matter what. What a dumbsh*t thing to say to you. Sorry, he may be a great guy, but he is completely misguided on faith. Don't loose faith bc one persons interpretation of perceived belief. Hang in there.

 

[bluebird]

I am a catholic myself... what your adoptive father said to you, was something people used to believe centuries ago... And catholic church doesn't say so anymore. I am very sorry you were told something like that...

Those, who died without actually becoming christians, those, who didn't have the chance to find God, those, who simply tried to live in the best way they knew, those will all see God's face and they will know his love, the love they have been searching for their whole lives... A child who did no wrong will certainly see him! I imagine God hugging every child, calming him/her down and making the child laugh with happiness and joy. Your sister is now very happy indeed in the eternal gardens of paradise, thinking of you and loving you. One day, you will see her again. I really do believe that... Take care.

 

[joeylittle]

I am seriously questioning what the meaning is here. And if there is no meaning does that mean there is no purpose? Do I need purpose and meaning to heal?

I think it's so, so human to look for meaning. It is a very natural thing. I also think it's human to want there to be meaning, a reason, something.

Personally, I've gone through my struggle with this, and I honestly believe there isn't any meaning to the things that happen to us, the good or the bad. There isn't some external force trying to teach us something, we aren't being given these challenges as a way to learn, or grow, or anything. Stuff happens. It happens to everyone in different ways, and everyone's pain is relative.

When there are reasons, they are based only in the facts of what happens as far as we can know or understand them. So, is mental illness endemic in my family of origin? Yes. Is it probable that I've inherited the part of me that has depression? Yes. Does it mean anything? No. It just is.

There is no purpose for the things that happen, either. In hindsight, we can usually understand events as having purpose, because we can see how one thing does lead to another thing. But even then, it's not so much purpose as it just is choices.

Other people can make choices that affect us profoundly. But it wasn't for a purpose, and it doesn't have meaning.

I think it's also human to want/need/understand the purpose or reason we are alive - you could restate that as, "why am I here?". For anyone dealing with bad shit, there's generally the addendum, "why am I here dealing with this bad shit?" The great and terrifying thing is that we need to somehow have a working answer to that question in our darkest moments, and we are the ones who have to make up the answer. Personally, I think this is why religion is important to so many people - it really does provide a system of belief, a way to answer these questions, and a community that all answers these questions the same way. There is a lot of comfort and security in that.

But I believe there is no actual answer - only what we as individuals decide the answer is. We choose.

Personally, I think that in the most practical way, we have a period of time when we exist, and that's the thing called "our lives". We live them out. If we don't like what we have, we change it. If we are struggling and would like ease, we try and figure out how to get there. If we feel sad and want to feel better, we search for ways to do that. We are clever and resilient creatures that way. But it's not easy, and not everyone gets to go where they are trying to go. All we can do is choose to try.

 

[Anarchy]

So then, if it wasn't about love from these divine beings, where is the meaning in all of this? What is this for? Why me and not the kid next door (not that I want it to happen to anyone else). I am not looking for pity stuff here, I am seriously questioning what the meaning is here. And if there is no meaning does that mean there is no purpose? Do I need purpose and meaning to heal? By focusing on god and universal crap am I just again, externalizing who I am doing this for rather than doing it just for me?

There's no one here, just us chickens.
:chicken::hug::chicken:

 

[Hope4Now]

And if there is no meaning does that mean there is no purpose? Do I need purpose and meaning to heal?

Hi @shimmerz. Although I don't feel angry about any of it (and that may just be my anger-avoidance issues), I resonate with much of what you've written here (raised RC, adopted, "loved," spiritually inclined, meaning-seeking, etc.). I have no answers at all; however, as a result of several bizarrely related moments, I ended up reading the essay "The Myth of Sisyphus" by Albert Camus sometime a few months back. I actually read the whole collection which was fascinating. But the Myth was the most profound. Do you know the story? Sisyphus was condemned by the gods to ceaselessly push a rock to the top of a mountain from which it would roll back down again.

Camus offers a different way of thinking about "meaning" for me. It's about what he calls the absurd. When we fight against our pain and when we look for meaning, we suffer. When we accept the ebb and flow of what is happening to us as what "is" and embrace meaning in that alone--things shift. (In some ways it's all rather Buddhist really). The last paragraph of the essay reads:

I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain. One always finds one's burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night-filled mountain, in itself forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.

I wrote in the margin, "The absurdity (of the repeated struggle) IS the meaning. One can choose it."

But I believe there is no actual answer - only what we as individuals decide the answer is. We choose.

See above. I liked your post.

 

[City Slicker]

I hear you @shimmerz

I believe that when you experience things no-one should ever experience that are beyond the human brain's ability to comprehend there exists a need to search for meaning - when there's no human reason or meaning for what happens, we will search beyond the existential.

One of the most recent books I read on Trauma and PTSD covers the aspects of searching for meaning and purpose in the face of horrendous things and the tendency for survivors to seek outward or religious meaning for their experiences. The author wrote that religion can sometimes give survivors answers to their questions about purpose and meaning because it eases those questions, 'what was it all for?' The author states religion answers those questions and gives peace to those that believe.

I realized early on being angry at God was a lot safer than being angry with my primary caretakers. The anger really was with them and with the people that did hurtful things to my family. As a child I painfully learned that there was no 'healing daddy', no 'god', that was going to step in and save us. As a kid that made me feel even worse because it meant we were not even worthy of god's love or protection.

Later on in life, I finally put the anger where it belonged, not with religion, not with the people who believed in a supreme being, not with people who frequently parroted that 'the universe will provide', not with saints or saviours whomever they may be, but squarely on the shoulders those who actively hurt us. For me it isn't the meaning or purpose in the sky or that anger anymore that God isn't there or that I was so lied to - it was just another way that was used to hurt me and my siblings.

I decided to find the purpose and meaning for myself and to create it in myself. Today it happens in any number of ways - by rescuing an injured animal, picking up someone's lost glove, giving a dollar somewhere if I can, assisting someone that's having a hard time, finding a way to give back to my community any little way I can, sometimes it happens simply by changing a very negative thought into something compassionate for myself or someone else.

Doing that is the ultimate gift I can give myself because it puts me right back in touch with my own humanity and grace. I find when I am struggling I will actively seek to do something for someone else - in the end it's redemptive for me. I simply seek to feel a valuable part in myself and to see that I am part of a larger community than just what exists inside my head.

I decided that getting in touch with the truth of who I am is purpose and meaning that fulfills me. If there is a 'God' that is with me on this path then so be it but I do not see him, feel him or know him to be part of my life or existence. I have attempted many conversations with this God and have yet to find any way in which we have connected.

So now I look for what was supposed to be 'out there', inside me - that 'higher sense' in myself whereI don't have to live from the place of pain and hurt.

Sorry this was long - @shimmerz you really got me thinking about the ways religion had been used to hurt my family and the path to recovery for me.
I hope yours is coming with peace and ultimately meaning.

 

[Chava]

This may or may not help, I don't know. But when I think of some of my suffereing, I can't find "meaning" for the original situation. They tie together though, not because I was fundamentally worthless but because my own original caregiver was blinded by suffering and not able to connect or protect or care because of their own scramble for self-protection. So, they just f*cked up. I unfortunately got caught in someone else's unresolved trauma. But I'm a step ahead because I'm not dumping my trauma onto others like that. I have more awareness. I also have a load more compassion. I can not pin point any very satisfying original meaning but I am crazed over meaning-making myself. For me it's about connection. Not so much love, but connection. How can I connect with or help others who suffer? How can I connect somewhere in the world in general?

I don't do the God thing either, probably because very little within my cells feels any assurance with some protective loving being...doesn't even make sense. I'm more of a Taoist...that's sort of like "the universe" but it involves weird things for me like not feeling separate from sweet and innocent things like bugs and worms. I love things most people can't love. It fills me with a sense of connection to everything when my head is in a good spot. I'm part of all of this right now. I think for me it's some spiritual continuance of needing the self-other or self-object thing to be sorted out, but in a good way it encompasses more than one person or one being...it can encompass really anything. So for me life becomes this curious and lovable aesthetic and compassionate experience at times. I don't try to understand how it works exactly or why some of us suffer (Buddha would say life is suffering, but it does seem bizarrely unfair for some of us). Just knowing the struggle is deeper, like about connection to something that lasts, feels more meaningful than dropping into the easy-life person's aim of just being entertained all day.

What I heard about God at a young age also felt like bullshit. Now I'm more letting myself ignore all existing concepts of god and trying to figure it out for myself (this is hard and murky, but something 12-steppers are encouraged to do). I feel connection to non-living things like rocks. I don't know if it's because of their characteristics or what, but I try to allow all of that, all of the wonder, connection in any form. For me, "connection" and love was bound to be a mess since it was on the wrong track from day one. But it's also left me feeling free to find the unusual track that really does resonate because I still have that innate ability to connect and feel love and joy. I just have to drop every pre-existing religious belief and really even what I think makes more sense socially or culturally.

My own path will be healed through my own creative metaphors. I asked my therapist if I could try moving more into the space when I see her next week, but that I'd probably need to have a small, circular wall around me...not like a continuous fence, but a wall constructed of pillows and toys and stuff. I have ideas what this might mean, but my thoughts came after the image. Following the image, or what my imagination knows, is the important part. I sense this is important. Have you read any of Joseph Campbell's stuff? I LOVE "Pathways to Bliss." F*ck pre-established religions if you are deeply looking for threads or direction in your own story. All religions are dependant upon symbols, image, and metaphor, so if we are very serious we follow our own, which is like the "god" within us, which can connect us back to ourselves and the world.

 

[sun seeker]

Your adopted dad lied to you. He may have believed himself, but he was dead wrong. What bad publicity he gave God, all while ostensibly "not questioning how things are."

I've struggled with the concept of God as a loving being. I take it on faith that it's true, but I have a hard time feeling it. He loves us... how exactly? What in all this mess shows us that? If so, why do we have to suffer like this? In the past few years my faith hasn't been shattered, but my personal connection with the spiritual world has. I used to feel connected with the divine, to ask for guidance and get it. I felt like one part of an interactive universe. Lately, I haven't been trying much to communicate with the divine, because I feel like the divine has forgotten about me or given up on me as a bad job. I don't really believe that ever happens, but I need more concrete evidence to actually feel it.

I do still believe there is meaning. I also believe it's hard to know what that is while we are alive. You know how people who have near death experiences suddenly see their lives clearly and come back with a new sense of purpose? As far as my understanding has gotten, our souls are eternal, they evolve through experience over many many lifetimes, and eventually they do get to a place where there is no suffering. But why the journey has to be so painful, I still struggle with. It's how the universe is set up, but sometimes I feel like raising a hand and saying "hey, I object to how this show is being run!"

 

[shimmerz]

That's all just it, you know. I have put a bunch of energy into feeding my spiritual side. Energy I really didn't have, or, when I was a child, was forced to put in because my parents were so freaking religious.

I feel like I have been duped. I feel like it has all been just a waste of time.

 

[scout86]

Just to disclose my own prejudices, I believe in a higher power. It's been a long and convoluted journey! As a result, I've come to believe in a version of God as a being who gets anger and appreciates honesty. A good friend challenged me to read the Christian Bible cover to cover, like any other book. First off, it was quite obvious that it's not A book, but a bunch of books. There turns out to be some good stuff in there that gets glossed over, some that gets taken out of context, and some that's contradictory. Interesting reading.

Because I think of God as a "higher power", I've come to accept and believe that mere mortals probably aren't going to get it totally right when they try to pass along the "rules of the game". My personal take is that the idea is for each of us to give "playing by the rules" our best shot. ("By their fruits you will know them"?) I totally get "Good" and "Evil". I think we get to pick a side in each and every situation we face. And we pick a side even when we refuse to pick one.

"Meaning"? Well, I think we get to pick sides, so I think we can decide for ourselves what any of it means. Is there are grand master plan? I kind of hope so, but that would be above my pay grade.

@shimmerz , have you ever read any of C.S Lewis' non-fiction? He has a good take on this stuff. All I really have to say is, don't confuse God witt what people say about God or with organized religion. Just because people SAY they know stuff doesn't mean that they do, in the spiritual realm, just like everywhere else. (And your father was wrong!)

 

[Nam]

What a journey it is. Joeylittle said it best. It just is. I think about the most pivotal moments in my life. What if dad didn't die? What if I were adopted into another family? So many twists and turns.

As a kid, you are at the mercy of other people. I found freedom as an adult. I found that I only really trust one person with my future: me. Once I made up my mind on that, life got much simpler. I got to know myself, where my limits were and my faults. I also got to know my strengths and where I enjoyed my own company. I put my energies into taking care of myself so I could take care of others which gives me great joy.

There are limits to this philosophy. Obviously, I'm not all powerful nor all knowing. But it gives me control even if it's only a little bit. It makes me take responsibility for my decisions. And I see things in more of a cause effect way. That one person can start a chain reaction of events.

Keep thinking about it. Experiment with different thinking. See how it feels. No one is telling you one particular direction. Find your own way.