Functioning = Must Not Be That Bad

[brokenchild]

BrokenChild, that just really concerns me. I don't know how many professionals you have seen but it seems to me you have every right to walk in not trusting if even one professional suggested they were not concerned about your well-being after what you had told them above, regardless of what you looked liked. Sometimes it can take awhile to find the right fit but it's always worth it to keep looking.

Can I ask why you are still with her if she doesn't believe you?

It was at the last appointment where I asked about the functioning thing and got her response. It was the first appointment where I told her the above. I think she believes me. She's said things that made me think she knew what I was talking about.

I'm going to try to get up the courage to ask her why she said what she said.

I am also concerned about this. My last counsellor totally brushed me off because in her opinion if I was working then it wasn't 'that' serious.

There again she also turned up in her slippers and two times didn't turn up at all.

Sometimes I wonder how these people can claim to be good at the job they're supposed to do.

Take care and know that you aren't alone x

I had a therapist that would answer her cell phone during sessions, AND have a conversation. Ugh.

When I wanted to do IOP for the PTSD, my therapist told me that since I was doing well in school, I must not need it. I had to go to the DEAN of the college to get permission to miss school.

I have just been reading up about 'Black & White Thinking' or 'Splitting', and this would seem to be a classic example. Of course you don't actually mean that they always cancel your appointments - it just feels like that. But if you can see the reality of the situation - that sometimes you have to have your appointment adjusted to help someone else, it doesn't seem quite so bad does it?

Like you said, I didn't mean always. But I wouldn't get a phone call and would find out when I got there that my appointment was canceled. When I would call, crying uncontrollably, they would ALWAYS (yes, always) tell me they didn't have any openings. They would cancel my appointment for others, but wouldn't cancel other appointments for me.

 

[cherryblossom]

BC - have you worked out what issues make you feel suicidal? Perhaps these are the issues you could bring up in therapy.
You don't mention how long you have been in therapy for. Whilst I understand that you were put through an horrific ordeal, I'm suprised that after therapy, you are not getting any better. If you've been in therapy for a few months, then you should definately be seeing a reduction in your sypmtoms. If not, why not? That's for you to think hard about. Is it you, a bad therapist, or just a bad combination/therpeutic relationship. You are clearly diappointed with your therapt. Therapy should be a trusting and safe environment. If you are not getting this, and don't feel valued or believed then you should seriously consider changing therapists.

 

[anthony]

I told her that one of the reasons I've never attempted suicide is that I am suffering and that's what I think I deserve. I told her that if I ever commit suicide, I will have to suffer a long and painful death first because that's what I think I deserve. I've told her that I think I am less than human and disgusting.

Questions to ask yourself

• Why do you deserve to suffer?
• Why are you less than human?
• Why are you disgusting?

From everything you are saying, you seem to good at telling people the problems, but you don't seem to be doing much towards answering or looking for the solutions. Do you think it all just stops at telling people about the problem? You can talk about the problem until you're out of breathe, it won't fix a thing, unless you look at the possible solutions and begin implementing them. The solutions come from the type of questions I asked above.

 

[brokenchild]

BC - have you worked out what issues make you feel suicidal? Perhaps these are the issues you could bring up in therapy.

I'm not sure I know what you mean but "issues" making me feel suicidal. I've thought about suicide most days since I was in kindergarten. That's the first time I thought about it. I don't remember what started it.

You don't mention how long you have been in therapy for. Whilst I understand that you were put through an horrific ordeal, I'm suprised that after therapy, you are not getting any better. If you've been in therapy for a few months, then you should definately be seeing a reduction in your sypmtoms. If not, why not? That's for you to think hard about. Is it you, a bad therapist, or just a bad combination/therpeutic relationship. You are clearly diappointed with your therapt. Therapy should be a trusting and safe environment. If you are not getting this, and don't feel valued or believed then you should seriously consider changing therapists.

I've been in and out of therapy since I was in kindergarten for one thing or another (death in the family, custody battles, etc) For the abuse, I have been on and off of therapy for almost a decade now and there has definitely been progress. There just hasn't been much progress in the way I see myself because most therapists, if they let me talk about my abuse at all, didn't seem interested in that part.

I've been with the current therapist for maybe two months, three at the longest. I'm not sure I'm disappointed so as much as I'm just wishing things work out because she seems to get everything else and no one else ever has.

Questions to ask yourself

• Why do you deserve to suffer?
• Why are you less than human?
• Why are you disgusting?

The easy version of this is because it was beaten/sexually abused into me. Do something wrong? Get beaten and/or raped while being told I deserved it because I was bad and disobeyed. Eat/ingest some of the things I was made to eat/ingest, get told I was less than human and disgusting. It's what I was told growing up and I can't see to stop believing any of it.

Not believing everything my abusers beat into me is one of the many things I've been working on. This is the first therapist that seems to understand why I believe them at all, so I was/am hopeful we can make some progress in this area.

From everything you are saying, you seem to good at telling people the problems, but you don't seem to be doing much towards answering or looking for the solutions. Do you think it all just stops at telling people about the problem? You can talk about the problem until you're out of breathe, it won't fix a thing, unless you look at the possible solutions and begin implementing them. The solutions come from the type of questions I asked above.

No offense, but you don't know how hard I am or are not working. You think I haven't been looking for the solutions? I almost starved myself to death because I didn't know hot to not listen to my abusers. I have been looking for help/guidance/direction for as long as I've been telling people what happened. I've just never gotten it and never figured out how to do it on my own.

I don't know how to not believe them. I don't know how to not listen to them or obey their rules without punishing myself. That's what I'm saying. I DON'T KNOW HOW. That's the whole point.

If I ignore them, I get really bad somatic pains and have become physically sick in the past and passed out. Or, their voices become even louder and more negative until the only way I see to make it stop is to obey them and punish myself. If I obey them, that is obviously a problem because it reinforces what they said to begin with. I don't know what to do and haven't been told any coping skills to help get me by this.
~~~~~
I never would have posted this if I thought I was going to have to defend where I am in the healing process or how hard I am working. Accusing me of not working/trying hard enough isn't helping at all and is just making me feel ever worse about myself. Nor is telling me how much progress I should have made in a given time period.

Everyone heals at different rates/struggles with different. I thought we all knew that here.

I'm at a loss of what to say anymore and am really starting to feel uncomfortable on these forums. I'm sorry to have stirred this pot. I am really, really sorry.

 

[Lucycat]

Brokenchild, I think Anthony has achieved his aim; he has stirred you up and made you think! I hear anger in the post above. Anthony is not responsible for your abuse, but is trying to make you turn your thoughts to looking forward rather than looking back ... or at least that is my interpretation of it.

Feeling uncomfortable is about healing and challenging perceptions. Don't be sorry. be glad you are moving in the right direction.

 

[Tirnanog]

It seems that since I am functioning (going to work, getting out of bed, going to the gym, etc) that most professionals don't take me seriously. I brought it up to my new therapist to see what she would say. She told me she wasn't worried about my jumping off a bridge but that she knew I was hurting.

I can see how this statement would make you feel as though your therapist may be minimizing how much you are hurting. Perhaps she sees your ability to do things such as go to work and go to the gym despite your hurting as a strength. I can see how this is frustrating for you. I also think that your ability to do these things despite how bad your symptoms are is a coping mechanism to deal with your feelings.

I've never NOT been functional no matter how depressed or suicidal I've been. Maybe it's the OCD or the not wanting people to know.

I think you are right it could be an "OCD" thing. I actually think that it makes a lot of sense that you are "functional" despite how bad you feel as you could be looking for ways to find some control. We can't always control how we think or feel but we can control things like how intensely we push ourselves during a workout/exercise because that is something that we can have almost total control over. I think going to work is a little more challenging and I know I myself can work everyday despite how I feel because it is an obligation that I have.

I think any talk of suicide should be taken VERY seriously by your therapist. She shouldn't even take into consideration that you are still able to go to work or that you go to the gym. She should be focused on what you are telling her about how you feel. I think you mentioned that this is a new therapist? Maybe she really just needs to get to know you better? Some therapists are more intuned to things like body language and para-communication. (They aren't just listening to what we say but how we say it.) I just met with my prescriber and I told him that I felt like the medication he had recently put me on (Effexor) was making me feel more depressed. This immediately concerned him and he asked if I was suicidal. I said "No, not at all. I am just feeling a little more blue." (I really am not feeling suicidal at all) I told him that I wasn't majorly depressed and I was still able to get out of bed and go to work and he said that that didn't matter. He said, "I think you are tough. But I can see it in your eyes that you aren't right." He isn't even my therapist. I see a therapist and then I see him separately just for meds. He appears to be an example of a Mental Health Professional who just reads body language well and takes things seriously. He seemed genuinely concerned. I didn't need to say much to convince him that the med he prescribed is a bad fit.It is almost the opposite problem from what you have. I felt like I needed to convince him that I am not majorly depressed or suicidal just unhappy with a med.

I wish I had the right words to say to you right now. I am taking everything you say very seriously and I am concerned for you. I hope that you have better success with your therapist during your next visit.

Also please know that you do not deserve to suffer. I do not mean to minimize your feelings by saying that. I think I am at a loss of words but want to show you support as best I can.

 

[brokenchild]

Brokenchild, I think Anthony has achieved his aim; he has stirred you up and made you think! I hear anger in the post above. Anthony is not responsible for your abuse, but is trying to make you turn your thoughts to looking forward rather than looking back ... or at least that is my interpretation of it.

Feeling uncomfortable is about healing and challenging perceptions. Don't be sorry. be glad you are moving in the right direction.

He hasn't made me think of anything I didn't already know and tell my therapist. I told my current therapist things on the first visit I NEVER told any other therapist, just to speed things up. I do EVERYTHING I can to get over this.

I'm not angry, I'm just getting more depressed because I feel like I'm being accused of not trying hard enough when that's what I spend so much doing. It's just another thing in a long list of things I am failing at.

I feel uncomfortable about the people on the forum, not the forum itself. I posted for advice and guidance and ended up having to defend where I am in my recovery process and how hard I am working.

I feel attacked and I didn't come here to feel attacked.

 

[brokenchild]

I can see how this statement would make you feel as though your therapist may be minimizing how much you are hurting. Perhaps she sees your ability to do things such as go to work and go to the gym despite your hurting as a strength. I can see how this is frustrating for you. I also think that your ability to do these things despite how bad your symptoms are is a coping mechanism to deal with your feelings.

I think you are right it could be an "OCD" thing. I actually think that it makes a lot of sense that you are "functional" despite how bad you feel as you could be looking for ways to find some control. We can't always control how we think or feel but we can control things like how intensely we push ourselves during a workout/exercise because that is something that we can have almost total control over. I think going to work is a little more challenging and I know I myself can work everyday despite how I feel because it is an obligation that I have.

Thank you for this. Just, thank you.

I think any talk of suicide should be taken VERY seriously by your therapist. She shouldn't even take into consideration that you are still able to go to work or that you go to the gym. She should be focused on what you are telling her about how you feel. I think you mentioned that this is a new therapist? Maybe she really just needs to get to know you better? Some therapists are more intuned to things like body language and para-communication. (They aren't just listening to what we say but how we say it.) I just met with my prescriber and I told him that I felt like the medication he had recently put me on (Effexor) was making me feel more depressed. This immediately concerned him and he asked if I was suicidal. I said "No, not at all. I am just feeling a little more blue." (I really am not feeling suicidal at all) I told him that I wasn't majorly depressed and I was still able to get out of bed and go to work and he said that that didn't matter. He said, "I think you are tough. But I can see it in your eyes that you aren't right." He isn't even my therapist. I see a therapist and then I see him separately just for meds. He appears to be an example of a Mental Health Professional who just reads body language well and takes things seriously. He seemed genuinely concerned. I didn't need to say much to convince him that the med he prescribed is a bad fit.It is almost the opposite problem from what you have. I felt like I needed to convince him that I am not majorly depressed or suicidal just unhappy with a med.

She's not a new therapist, just new to me.

There are all kinds out there I guess. I've rarely, if ever, had a therapist who was concerned about anything I told them, suicidal thoughts included.

I wish I had the right words to say to you right now. I am taking everything you say very seriously and I am concerned for you. I hope that you have better success with your therapist during your next visit.

I just have to get the guts to say something. That can be so difficult.

Also please know that you do not deserve to suffer. I do not mean to minimize your feelings by saying that. I think I am at a loss of words but want to show you support as best I can.

Thank you again, for everything you have said. Thank you.

 

[WonderingWhy]

I never would have posted this if I thought I was going to have to defend where I am in the healing process or how hard I am working. Accusing me of not working/trying hard enough isn't helping at all and is just making me feel ever worse about myself. Nor is telling me how much progress I should have made in a given time period.

Everyone heals at different rates/struggles with different. I thought we all knew that here.

I'm at a loss of what to say anymore and am really starting to feel uncomfortable on these forums. I'm sorry to have stirred this pot. I am really, really sorry.

BrokenChild,
I have an idea of what you felt when you read Anthony's reply.:banghead: The reason I say that is because Anthony gave me "advice" that scared/overwhelmed me. I considered leaving the site also. PLEASE DON'T!:praying:

I hate to say it Anthony may be a bit abrupt and insensitive, but his words are usually dead on target. :rolleyes:The big problem is when someone (like you & me) are not at a point in our healing, where we can achieve what he has suggested. What makes it a bit worse, even though he is completely well intentioned it can scare us. Hence the feeling of wanting to leave the site.:running: I hope you don't leave.

I am not sure if it will help you, but what I have found to really help is mostly to understand that Anthony means absolutely no harm, only to try to help. He does that by stating what we need to do to help ourselves. Unfortunately as you stated everyone is not the same, nor at the same stage of healing.

I hope this all makes sense to you. I believe YOU, as I need this site, do also. because we both need so much healing to do. I think you would be losing a huge support resource. It's obviously your choice and we support whatever your decision and wish you all the best regardless if you stay or leave. Take care.I do hope you will stick around.;):hug:

 

[anthony]

I am going to forewarn you right now BC... I don't care what you have told another therapist in your past, or what you state to have achieved, you are here, you are still ill, so that means things aren't being done the way they need to be.

This is going to open Pandora's box... are you up for that? You may want to think about that statement, because if you haven't dealt with things truly at the emotional level, then your ride is about to get extremely severe.

If not, then do not continue with the below. If so... then I am going to push you, you are going to get angry... but remember, I am only here to help you, even though its going to hurt you. Ensure you have support, as you will need it.

The easy version of this is because it was beaten/sexually abused into me. Do something wrong? Get beaten and/or raped while being told I deserved it because I was bad and disobeyed. Eat/ingest some of the things I was made to eat/ingest, get told I was less than human and disgusting. It's what I was told growing up and I can't see to stop believing any of it.

Ok, you have completely ignored what I have asked you, and instead you have told me what happened and/or what was forced upon you, which isn't what I asked, so again, this time I will elaborate more to remove doubt:

• Why do you deserve to suffer?
• Why are you less than human?
• Why are you disgusting?

These are yes / no answers, then requiring an answer based on what you feel, not what happened, or what was pushed on you, etc etc... what do you feel. The best way to answer such questions is like the following, always commencing with "I feel..."

Eg.

• I feel that I was degraded when he did x
• I feel that I was humilated when he forced me to x
• I feel.... etc etc...

This often becomes an extremely long list... and I asked you 3 significant questions, which will no doubt invoke some serious feelings when written like above.

I don't know how to not believe them. I don't know how to not listen to them or obey their rules without punishing myself. That's what I'm saying. I DON'T KNOW HOW. That's the whole point.

Problem is... your getting ahead of yourself, because if you had dealt with every aspect of your trauma at the emotional level, instead of just talking about the trauma itself, then the severe negative emotions would not still be prevalent. It must be dealt with at the emotional level, not the surface on what happened, or why... but what you feel. If you don't solve that first, you can't solve or find solutions to how to regain control of your life.

Its a process, and skipping any step will just make the entire process useless.

 

[Hlost]

Brokenchild, this is a site where everyone absolutely believes you and what you are saying despite how you are feeling. I can see where Anthony is going with this even though the his direction may not be look to you, it is clear throug the fog and in no means is he the 'enemy'.

Setting that aside, let me commend you for having not having taken off despite your not being sure of any this and by your own words, "feeling attacked". If anything, I see the opposite and that is members trying like crazy to help support you and reassure you that you deserve the best care possible and quite possibly have missed a step or along the way while presenting yourself with the professionals, no matter how slight. In this case it seems, however, you have been the most upfront.

I have plenty of my own 'war stories' from the therapeutic front lines clear down to the past tdoc taking great pains when I decided to invite my husband for a couples meeting, to accusing him of needing to take on more responsibility at home and his need to take be less of a codependent! I had absolutely no idea where he got that misconceived notion as it was never a conversation we had had. Worse yet, when I asked for the pdoc to hold up on his line of conversation so I could speak, he interrupted me and continued on at a rabid pace that made no sense, and was even on the angry side. While I fumed, my husband just sat and observed. He works full time plus over time and takes on several household chores due to my disabilities. I was at first stunned then furious and so decided to call the session early to keep from yelling at my pdoc.

When I returned alone to do a follow up to find out what the heck happened he was ready with some ridiculous 8th grade science project to explain to me to the elementary physics of codependency (something I learned when he was well into in diapers, not take away from his expensive education but it's true). I suffered that and realized he was not in a place to listen to anything but his own voice so I reminded him I was the client and ask him the simple question, "what the hell was that all about?" He had no answer for me. I continued with where he had come up with the idea that my husband was a 'codependend' when he was the Carer and I was on 100% Disability? It made no sense to me. He hymmed and hawwed - seemed lost in his original project of defense for his action. I had not use for someone who felt it necessary to attack the one person I trusted and had nothing invested in this tdoc. Time to keep moving.

Yes, I would cut ties that simply. It had been the 2nd time he had attacked my husband in a similar manner while he was there in person to support to support me, and without being willing to get honest about it, I have no desire to spend my time and money to work on whatever his issues he was having. I'm just not that devoted to him. When I said to stop during the session he ignored me. That doesn't work for me.

I am always willing to revisit the issue to see if it's a good fit, if it was a misunderstanding (I have those days, a lot), and I won't be disrespected so I have to check that out. I feel like if I have to "prove" my feelings I'm in a therapeutic relationship that is not going to work for me. If I have been honest about how I feel about that with the clinician and laid my cards on the table about that then it's time to pack it up. To be honest Brokenchild, in my opinion, I have found a lot in the field with their own issues. In many ways this makes them more effective, in others it can make it rougher. It is one of the reasons I insist on a higher degree in education. Not to be snotty but for education and commitment. Even my tdoc is highly OCD about getting the money and insurance paid properly at each session down to the last penny. I find it endearing as long as it's done at the beginning and not the end of the meeting. When the session is over I am out of there!! It's just something that works great for me. I can trust she has this issue.


I've blabbed on but I hope I've made some sense. I still hold some cards close to my vest, when first meeting new therapists. I don't do it on purpose, it's just that I don't automatically trust and honestly don't want them making snap decisions like they could know me so quickly. I do want them to know I am first and foremost I am I very hard worker.

Straight forward questions work best. Anthony had some interesting questions. I didn't hear accusations...maybe that's just me. I am not accusing you of anything, just throwing out ideas and telling you my experiences. More than I'm sure you care to hear but there it is.

Again, you deserve the best therapy. Straight forward questions are the best. They can be the hardest to ask of others and ourselves. I have no doubt you are looking for the answers to move forward or you wouldn't be here. Deep breath, reread the posts, rethink the your approaches, and I know the answers are there even if they are with another tdoc. And GF, you are worth the best!!! Never forget it :)

HL

 

[cherryblossom]

BC, I understand that you might feel you are being attacked, but that was certainly not my intention, and from what I know of anthony, he only want's to try to help you too.

You asked for advice, and that is all we have tried to do. This site is not about sympathy. Yes, understanding, empathy, and support are all valid and encouraged. But I want memebers to feel challenged (not attacked), into finding different approaches, when their current methods for recovery are not working. I totally respect all your efforts, and never thought for one moment that you weren't trying - just wanted to give you some suggestions as to how you might make progress. I could comment further, but don't want to offend or upset you further, so will leave it there.