News Human Rights For Sex Offenders

[scout86]

@joeylittle , I just read the article. Let's call it "thought provoking". Something that struck me is that, while it seems to be true that pedophiles are vilified, it also seems to be true that their victims are often disbelieved and the offenses minimized. A lot of sentences seem pretty short, for example. And there's the whole "blame the victim" thing, which really does happen. Maybe I can't see this clearly because of my own prejudices, but I think the VICTIMS are at LEAST as mishandled by society as the perps are. It's quite a mess! But thanks for posting the interesting article.

 

[joeylittle]

I think the VICTIMS are at LEAST as mishandled by society as the perps are. It's quite a mess! But thanks for posting the interesting article.

Oh, I don't disagree at all. Nor do I think the article makes any statement on how the perpetrators are more worthy of attention than the victims - the entire slant on the piece is on perpetrators, that's all. And I do think that early-intervention - basically, catching people before the crime is committed - would be the best thing for everyone, especially victims.

It's a little bit like, the subject of child molestation is so horrible and so wrong and so sickening that society doesn't even know how to talk about it or look at it. In an environment like that, it makes sense to me that victims are afraid to talk, or people look for reasons to not believe them...kind of a "don't talk about it" cycle that can really only be broken by getting the topic on the table, in my opinion - even though it's unbearably uncomfortable.

 

[Anarchy]

Going slightly OT, the examples of "pre crime" that I've seen, amounted to little more than mass kidnap of children, followed by their torture in an attempt to coerce them into offering false testimony.

The Cleveland scandal, and the Orkney "satanic abuse" [hoax] scandal are examples of this. In the latter example, the children were denied sight or knowledge of letters sent by well wishers, and were repeatedly given stories and told to validate them, or they would never see their parents again. The supposed "satanic cult" they belonged to, was "the religious society of friends" aka "Quakers"!

In the case of an individual who was adjudged to be a "risk" it consisted of the coerced self outing and subsequent shunning by employer friends and neighbors, of someone who - if there had been the slightest whiff of actual evidence against, would have been prosecuted. there wasn't. and what accusations there were, were never tested under cross examination of the accusers.

One of the shocks I got a couple of years back, was discovering that the father of one of my little school pals from 40 odd years ago, had been one of the most prolific child rapists, yet convicted in Britain. I've seen at least one member posting on myptsd whom I suspect was raped by him.

he was a feckin prison officer! and Presbyterian minister, his prey were kids sent to prison as part of a Thatcher government's "short sharp shock" policy. There were attempts to report him at the time, but each time, the management chain threatened the would be reporters, and protected the rapist.

 

[Neverthesame]

What I have always wondered, when hearing about people who hold positions of power or trust such as the Presbyterian minister @Anarchy mentioned. Do predators more often choose such professions?
Or is it just more impactful due to the trust such positions engender?

Edit: Forgot to mention something. Oh wait, you can't add a quote in the edit mode. Sorry for what will be two posts in rapid succession.

 

[hodge]

I don't know, Neverthesame, but I have heard from people who know that people who like wielding power are attracted to such professions.

 

[Neverthesame]

We don't have a rule against profanity, just FYI.

True, but I don't think anyone really wants to read a full paragraph of f-him, f-his dog, f-his cat, f-him upside-down with a pumice stone. Ect, ect. :p

I felt it would detract from the civility of the discussion. It was also written after a long shift. I have found that my ability to inject humor into the rude and hostile things I say, suffers greatly when I am tired. ;)

 

[anthony]

I still personally like my original response: https://www.myptsd.com/threads/human-rights-for-sex-offenders.26446/page-2#post-401036 yet also accept it is the most unlikely, albeit, whilst I personally think appropriate punishment for the aftermath caused from this specific crime.

If I had my way, I would set up prisons specifically for sexual offenders. We would endure the same punishments as any other criminal within these institutions. But these institutions would also have sex offender treatment programs going on, as well as research. Being around only sex offenders, the offender feels less threatened in discussing their crimes and their motivations. We would be free to talk openly and honestly about those issues that helped us make such atrocious decisions. We could do this without fear of retaliation, which would, I think, be a boon to the effectiveness of treatment, helping us be a substantially lesser threat to those wtith whom we share this world. But that is only my subjective opinion.

Saying that... this is a good idea IF it worked. It should be tried, that is for sure, if not already. Saying that... this could also have the counter productive aspect, in that you have sex offenders now learning off of one another in order to hone their skills to limit being caught the next time.

It is one thing to put a bunch of people in one place to harness the power of thinking for positive, its another with the intent for positive outcome, but what really is bread is professionalism for the negative.

America has a huge problem in sending amateur criminals into a system that breeds professionalism... they come out knowing more about crime than when they went in, and have harnessed their skills through collective knowledge.

 

[hodge]

Yes, Anthony. I am so very skeptical that sex offenders can be "rehabilitated."

 

[Neverthesame]

I couldn't put my finger on it till just now, something was really bothering me about what "sex offender" had said. Why does it matter if the inmates surrounding the pedophile are also pedophiles?

Mind you, I have never been to prison. But wouldn't any rehabilitation programmes be run by prison staff? People who already know full well, who is or is not being incarcerated for sex crimes?

Seems like it would be a poor idea to encourage such people to communicate with one another, in a private setting. I can (sort of) understand the fear of other prisoners who would be keen to harm sex offenders. But honestly, prison is a rough place. They knew full well what they were doing could get them put there. They made their bed, let them lay in it.

While sure, maybe a rehabilitation programme might be beneficial, the ever present threat of having the unholy shit beaten out of them, adds some much needed motivation. My reason for this? I have seen it mentioned a couple of times in this thread that the compulsive nature of the crime is similar to addiction. In which case, one usually needs to hit "rock bottom" before the desire to change overrides the discomfort of changing. I don't think they should feel safe in prison. I honestly don't see that being helpful.

 

[hodge]

I just think they have such a small chance of changing. There is much literature on the subject of sex offenders being unable to change. I think they should all be put away for life. Whether in the general prison population or not. I don't really care. They didn't care about what they were doing to me.

 

[Anarchy]

There are lots of supposedly "incurable"/"untreatable" "conditions"

When you start to read up on the attempts made to "treat", firstly there are very few, presumably because most practitioners believed what they read in their text books, and within that very few attempts, a lot of them a ridiculously inappropriate or superficial, and with hindsight, were destined to failure.

It is argued that the "personality disorders" are "untreatable" I wouldn't want to guess how many regulars here have been stigmatised with a BPD "diagnosis", There is no way that I am going to suggest that the collection of traits that get called BPD are "untreatable"

Sure, there is a popular myth amongst practitioners that people diagnosed with BPD are "difficult" or "manipulative" (when the blame for the client's reaction might well lie with the practitioner acting like a pompous arsehole), and to be avoided. Which may account for very few and very poor attempts to help,

but there are plenty of people here with BPD diagnoses who certainly do not come across as being in anyway "difficult" or "manipulative" and who probably would no longer meet the criteria for a diagnosis.

I've read of the same being true for "autistic" individuals. With careful treatment, they cease to meet the criteria for autism.

Whether the background to child molesting is acting out or a power trip or what ever (and by child molesting, I mean incapable of giving informed consent - a look around the "age of consent" laws in Europe will show that sex with a 13 year old is legal in Spain, and over approximately half of Europe, including Italy and Germany, the age of consent is 14 years. In France it is 15 years - there isn't a consistent deffinition of age at which someone can give informed consent. Before someone harrangues me for this paragraph, regardless of age - 9years old or 49 years old - if sex is coerced, it is assault or rape)

If the urge is not controllable (and at least one member here has posted about a pedophile who was non offending, who was attracted but who did not act on that), then we are into the field of compulsive coping strategies:
until a new coping strategy is found, the person will keep going back to the old one: whether that is self harm, smoking, drinking, or kiddy fiddling.

The kiddy fiddler troll might not be too far from being right about putting kiddy fiddlers together in a group. Certainly it could go hideously wrong, and has big potential to - just as sticking a bunch of alcoholics together in a group has big potential to go very badly wrong.

But sticking alcoholics together in a group also has a proven track record for being extremely effective at stopping their compulsive coping strategy - for example, alcoholics anonymous and the related 12 step groups for overcoming other compulsive coping strategies.

Clearly with offnders who are narcs and psychopaths, it is very difficult to get them to accept that there is anything wrong with them, and to motivate them to invest the time and effort needed for change, but even with them, I'm not convinced that they are incurable.

 

[Pietro]

It's a little bit like, the subject of child molestation is so horrible and so wrong and so sickening that society doesn't even know how to talk about it or look at it.

I think that's an enormous part of the overall problem. It helps to breed sex offenders and interferes with both pragmatic and humane ways of dealing with them. It also interferes with proper care and justice being provided to victims. Our collective societal maturity needs to improve before a real dent will be made in lessening the cycle of sexual abuse and victimization.

Do predators more often choose such professions?

I have read (can't remember where) that this may be true. I think some are attracted to positions where they are provided easy access: priests, pastors, and those who are part of church leadership; teachers; activity leaders; etc. However, I also think that some become corrupted by growing power and authority and arrogantly choose to act-out on their baser desires, feeling they are buffered from discovery and/or accountability.