If someone has SI they are untrustworthy

[Movingforward10]

My T practices Transactional Analysis so I thought all relationships were full of transactions?

Mine does too! I think she means it's reducing our assessment of the whole of a relationship down to that particular transaction rather than taking in everything as a whole. If that makes sense? I do it all the time, hold one thing as everything and forget all the other stuff to prove my projection or negative voice etc. Part of hyper viligence? Or insecure attachment?

It’s a nice thought but I don’t see how it could be neutral.

It's not dishonest though? It's a fact that the thought is there,for whatever reason for however long or short.

As I reflect upon your wish for me I realize that I already experience peace and self acceptance nearly every day at some point. AND I also hear the SI thoughts.
When I reflect upon this split it leads me to my original question—how can I have both and still be authentic?

You can be both and be authentic. You're not being dishonest and it isn't being untrustworthy. It's having different feelings and thoughts at the same time. Which can be draining and crazy making and feel horrible - but why inauthentic? All authentic parts of you.

Could that trigger the SI, in order to give myself a reason to feel disconnected?

It's the ultimate abandonment: us abandoning ourselves. That's how I see it for me anyway. Obviously ignore this if it isn't helpful.

 

[shimmerz]

I am aware that one of the most trustworthy students of mine has SI because they disclosed it to me. That didn’t change my view toward them except to soften my feelings toward them. But that’s different because there’s a power difference. I’m providing care unconditionally.

"I'm providing care unconditionally." This is what I have learned self care for myself to be. It was a struggle to get there but it has helped me a ton once I was able to see the possibilities that came forward as I got better at it.

I am wondering, was there an age that you have that ability to see yourself as? Someone to be provided care unconditionally?

only experienced enmeshment and codependency in intimate relationships prior to recovery.

Totally makes sense. This was the model of 'love' that was modelled for you. Can a therapist help you with this to see other options where enmeshment wasn't part of love?

Before I started recovery and realized I had CPTSD from csa I felt the same way about my compulsive skin picking

Unconditional self regard. I learned it in WRAP (Wellness Recovery Action Plan - Copeland Centre). No idea what your financial restrictions are but I highly recommend if you are able. It really helps guide a participant into their internal self rather than navigating based solely on the responses of others around us. It almost looks like you have situations that help you ground to this 'without this I can't have this' kind of thinking.

For me, I trigger into SI when things feel hopeless. I withdraw from everyone. I have mainly healed but I still get thrown into these states. I decided about a month ago that I have a new plan. I will starve myself to death. lol. Will never happen. I like cheesecake too much. :-) But somehow - having a plan - that on some level I recognize I could never succeed in, is still a plan. So what I find is happening is that I stop eating until the feeling passes. Or there is cheesecake to be had!

And I’m confused how I could be authentic if sometimes I feel acceptance and self-forgiveness but other times I feel SI.

For me, this is the nature of CPTSD. I think it is even human nature. Ebbs and flows. Comes and goes. It's just hard to ignore feelings that come and go when they painful and scary and hopeful like SI can be.

This might sound arrogant or offensive but I don’t want to be in an intimate relationship with someone who has SI. And so the fact that I have it is a conflict for me, and blocks intimacy with myself. I imagine that in an intimate relationship I would want to see myself in a partner and vice versa. I wonder if I am being unrealistic about my expectations.

This is super insightful. I don't think there is anything arrogant or offensive about it. You are allowed to make choices. You do seem to be in a bit of a double bind with it all as there is a conflicting sense of morals and values there. I would look into Ericson's double bind. It is an NLP tool that may be of some help to you.

 

[Renly]

This is an interesting conversation. Maybe my viewpoint is too simplistic, but I view SI as an emotional message. It’s a feeling. It’s there to inform us of something. How we act upon it is what matters.

For example, I’d say most of us have anger - but how do we express that emotional message? I can accept that I have anger and other people have anger sometimes. I couldn’t be with someone who expresses their anger by beating up me or another person. I could probably be with someone who expressed their anger by beating up on a punching bag instead (as long as that’s where the physical aggression ends). That’s just me. It’s not right or wrong, just what works for me.

To me, it’s not so much the HAVING of an emotional message (in this case SI), but really how the person decides to act upon it and how that affects me, my safety, and my happiness.

 

[Rose White]

what you are trusting them with.

Something like reliability? Or like a sense of “who I am”. If I present as this positive, growth-minded person, but actually I’m not fully invested in life, then I’m not really who I say I am?

I have people in my own life who are chronically suicidal and its a huge pain in the ass. But I also know their struggle isn't about me and my trust. It's about their pain

Sounds like for you the boundary of friendship is helpful. Yet, I couldn’t help thinking that there are lots of things that others do or have to manage that are huge PITA’s—and that thought is helpful. SI is one thing that is a PITA.

those are pretty harsh questions

Not at all. And my answer is yes to all of them.

if it isn't helpful.

It is very helpful to feel validated.

human nature. Ebbs and flows. Comes and goes. It's just hard to ignore feelings that come and go when they painful and scary and hopeful

Yes, I feel like this is something T tells me every time—that It comes and goes. That’s the nature of life. Thoughts are hard to ignore, but not impossible. And I don’t have to punish myself just because it’s hard.

how the person decides to act upon it and how that affects me,

This is helpful. For some reason it reminds me of the ET. It’s okay to have it. It’s understandable. How I decide to act on it makes a difference. How it affects T makes a difference. I don’t go in every week telling her how much I want her. I rather work with the energy of the ET to focus on my recovery and myself.

Which means, similar to what @Rosebud said, I may not tell a person who is a friend or partner about it right away or even for a while. And I may not discuss it with them much or in detail. I will cope with it in the ways I know how—ignoring, distracting, sublimating, and so on.

Today it seems more reasonable. It comes and goes. I use my coping skills. I don’t need to discuss it in detail with anyone. I have support here. I have support.

 

[Tinyflame]

@OliveJewel I think it has to be each person's own individual journey. And as @shimmerz said one hopefully with support, and not in isolation (I haven't had a chance to listen to the video yet). I think @Freida hit on a big point too that the causes and contributing factors are so diverse.

I think you are doing a geat job picking it apart!

Just to say as to this, re the relation to trust(worthiness):

Something like reliability? Or like a sense of “who I am”. If I present as this positive, growth-minded person, but actually I’m not fully invested in life, then I’m not really who I say I am?

I am probably older (or just more tired), but the thing about authenticity is our emotions or thoughts will vary. It won't be necessary to tell anyone anything, just to speak whatever is the truth- but not disclosure to all at all times (unless you wish to). Simply too because no one is actually defined by their roles, or emotions, or accomplishments, or failures, or past (I have learned).

The phrase “if I loved them already” tells me that I need to be careful. This taps into the unworthiness feeling—a small part, I believe.

^^ I hesitated to write that actually but I did because as you said after:

This might sound arrogant or offensive but I don’t want to be in an intimate relationship with someone who has SI. And so the fact that I have it is a conflict..

i think that's the thing: no one seeks to look for problems. And the dating phase (and even beyond) is a time people usually try to present their best (thoough incomplete, and may or may not be authentic) self. What I meant was when (I) love someone the sacrifice(s) no longer feel like that, they are just 'love'. But I would not have envisioned they would be talking about them hypothetically. I would like to think it can be possible for others too, but as you said nothing wrong with it not being acceptable, or tolerable, or something a person could sign on for.

Which means, similar to what @Rosebud said, I may not tell a person who is a friend or partner about it right away or even for a while. And I may not discuss it with them much or in detail. I will cope with it in the ways I know how—ignoring, distracting, sublimating, and so on.

Just solely for me, but I see it as my battle. If or when I disclosed it would only be if I was desperate, or I thought it was better to disclose than to carry on the same-old, or helped the other person. But for me, it's about trust. I would not/ could not just say it, I am too private and I know how I felt (how negatively it can be received) by anyone not familiar. I apologize because I guess too (for me) I am strange in that I am super-selective about what and to whom I would reveal the innermost thoughts of my mind and heart to. Most people are less so, and that's probably an ok thing (just not for me). So you know, for one person it may be 10 minutes, for me it would take years.

But no, I don't think SI is related to trustworthiness. That's kind of inferring it's willful or more rational or less 'ill' than it really is, IMHO. As you get more well hopefully it will be something you can see as an accomplishment and that you can help others to overcome, too, because of your expeiences.