Manipulation: A Personal Interpretation

[Friday]

My first day in my first psych class ever... The professor -this little blond pixie of a fireball- bounded out onto the stage, and introduced herself (with all of her doctorates & qualifications & experience) as "...Which means that I am a highly trained & extremely skillful manipulator! I WILL be manipulating you!"

And she did. Very. Very. Well :D

I agree with @scout86 's therapist 100% in this matter.

Manipulation? In and of itself is a very neutral thing. It's how it's used that determines value. Positive / Negative (and everything in between). Does a therapist use it to manipulate a client into not killing themselves? Or an asshole into manipulating someone out of their life savings? A teacher manipulating children into being active & excited learners? Or a jerk-girlfriend into hating yourself?

2 sides (or more ;)) of every coin.

ETA @scout86 ... Every time you approach a horse? You're manipulating them. Shaping your energy, body language, voice, hand, etc. to dictate to them how you want them to react. If you want them to shove over (hey, it's bossLady, move) without being threatening... Or projecting calm and authority at someone all skittish... Or NoNonsense to someone who would love to boss you... You probably have 50-100 different approaches, that you can instantly melt into, depending on what's needed. Is it manipulation? Changing the way that you approach a horse to get them to do what you want them to do? By definition. But it's neither negative, nor even neutral... It's positive. Exactly what's needed. :) Seeing a need and filling it. ANYONE who is good with horses (or kids) is a wicked good manipulator. At least in those very specific venues!

 

[scout86]

she was appealing to my ego to hear that as a compliment, when in reality , it was manipulation to keep me listening to her never ending drama..

OK, now how do you KNOW that? Is it possible she really DID think you were kind and understanding when you were listening to her? And then, when you weren't willing to listen you no longer met her definition of kind? But it never occurred to her she was asking too much (until you said something)?

And, how do you KNOW when you're asking too much? ("You" in the general sense, not "you" in particular.)

 

[ladee]

@Alice.in.Wonderland , you figured out why the word had such an impact on you !!!! That is awesome.... that's why we are all here... to figure it out....Want to share a word that just sends me up the wall, and it makes my stomach get in a knot even typing it.... the word slurp.... oh I hate hate hate that word.... so see, we all react to certain things.. at least you know where yours is coming from... I haven't the foggiest why my word bothers me so....

Maybe we should start a thread about words that send us up the wall, make us hyperventilate and leaves us in a ball in the middle of the floor... we would probably be amazed at the answers.... so hugs to you for starting this thread... s

 

[ladee]

@scout86 , I knew because of her body language, by the tone of her voice when she talked about it... and more importantly, how it made me feel... I know when someone is being sincere... and I know when someone is full of shit... all these years of hyper vigilance has paid off in a very positive way.... and of course her reaction to my confrontation..... I listen to my 'gut'... it never lies to me... ever.

 

[UnKnown-Self]

@ladee

Thank you so very much for making me really laugh out loud. I needed it. I will think of you each time I stop in 7-11 and see their name for their slushy iced drink.

 

[ladee]

See @Alice.in.Wonderland !!! It's the power we give the word... as long as you don't use that word with me, I promise not to use the other word with you !!! Oh god, my stomach is in knot....:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

 

[EveHarrington]

I think it helps to separate intentional manipulation from unintentional manipulation when dealing with manipulation in real life (not necessarily online). Not the easiest task, but there is indeed a difference between the two IME.

Intentional manipulation I see more as a lie, "I am going to wrap you around my little finger to get my own selfish wants met." On the other hand I see unintentional manipulation as a result of someone not knowing how to effectively get their needs met.

Of course this is an extreme oversimplification but it helps me to separate the malicious manipulative people from those who manipulate because they are simply unable to have their needs met in a proper way.

Is manipulation in either case a good thing? I don't think so. Just two different causes with the same modus operandi.

 

[Suzetig]

I think it's a really good question. I too have tended towards manipulation as a word or concept being value free but also can see @joeylittle's point about free will.

I do think it's a real double edged sword in that I know I learned to be manipulative to get some of my needs met but I also know I was manipulated by people who wanted to abuse me and have me think it was my fault. Neither feel ok in the sense that as an adult I should be able to ask fur what I need and, well I've spent endless time and money in therapy trying to sort out the "not my fault" thing. So, maybe the word has negative connotations because people's experience of being manipulated have such negative outcomes. I don't often hear people being manipulated to good ends, ie he manipulated me into accepting all of his lottery win, no strings attached, and it all worked out perfectly.

 

[mary1979]

Its probably a sore point for the majority @Alice.in.Wonderland.
Thank you for your courage in addressing it.

I doubt there's a single living person who could say they've never manipulated a situation be intentional or not to achieve a personal end.

For myself, I find it mostly unconscious though at times I'm semi aware.

Has anyone here read the Celestine prophecy?
The author discusses personal energies, how each of us have and need this energy, different ways of gaining said energy and categorises us into I think 4 or 5 personality types based on how we go about getting our energy needs met.

My Mother is a 'poor me' type. She plays the victim role like a pro. Everything's sooo terrible for her and the world simply MUST take pity on her for her feeble mind.
She is only happy when all sympathies are focused on her.

My father on the other hand has the 'aloof' personality type, he is withdrawn and appears mysterious, cleverly tricking people into meeting his emotional needs through his desire to be seen as someone charismatic and secretive.

 

[mary1979]

Oops. My phone posted when I put it down sorry.

So anyway, there is supposedly 4 personality types, we each are a blend of two of these and its all just interaction of humans at its most basic.

Some people drain too much of others energy in doing this though and I feel like this is where the manipulation turns a little desperate.

My ex (and kids dad) never learned how to ask for his needs, actually I dont think he was even aware enough to realise that he HAD emotional needs. As a consequence he was always threatening suicide. Like every weekend! Because he had learned it would quickly get him attention.
After 10 years of this, I finally worked out he wouldn't do it, and stopped reacting when he threatened.
He didn't stop there though, when he realised no reaction was forthcoming, he stepped up his anti, at times even actually attempting.
He was traumatising our whole family with this behaviour and eventually I took the kids and left.

But I now realise the problem.
Yes he was manipulating.
Yes it was abusive behaviour.
But why? Because no one showed him any other way, or even recognised that he HAD needs that hadn't been met in a healthy way.


If id known then, what I know now, id have been able to save our family.
If I could do it all again, I'd say to him "I'm sorry I haven't been emotionally available to you, so much that you feel desperate enough to want to die. How about together we work out what you need and a better way to get that need met"

Instead, I called him an emotionally abusive asshole and left.

I guess I just wanted to say that the word 'manipulative' and the word "seeking attention' as well, shouldn't be seen so negatively.

We all need others energy, and not all of us can see or understand how to deal with it correctly.
Its up to those who do know to show them.

But if they don't learn when you try?
Then kick em to the curb, you can lead a horse to water but thats all :)

 

[Sandstone]

It is the use of those words together that makes them so judgement laden. "Manipulative" and "attention seeking". They can be used to devalue and suppress someone in need.

 

[scout86]

I might be a bit like @mary1979 's ex, except that I think I also learned that getting attention isn't a good thing.
On the one hand, it's supposed to be ok to ask for what we think we need. On the other hand, if you need "too much" people will want you out of their lives. Better to just not need anything!