Overcoming Self-hatred And It's Relation To Healing

[Tinyflame]

Thank you @Ms Spock , so much I agree with, & some I just need to think.. :wideeyed: I only had the suicide attempts at 14/15-(?) after my attempts to manage the ptsd failed badly. Struggled with depression & trying to ensue preventing S(I) at some point in my 20's (dating an abusive guy), & then in 2006-ish (family situation), but no specific plans in place, lastly it popped up in 2008 onward after a 'bad date' (I didn't realize it though, except I know I thought "I will try (this last thing, some way to cope) & if it doesn't work that's what I'll do, end of story, plans in place"). Didn't see it as 'suicidal though. :rolleyes:

But- funny- I have done that on my own, go to a safe place. :wideeyed: And sought out the feeling of safety, too. :)

:hug: :hug: :hug:

 

[ms spock]

But- funny- I have done that on my own, go to a safe place. :wideeyed: And sought out the feeling of safety, too. :)

:hug: :hug: :hug:

:hug: :hug:

 

[Tinyflame]

You are so sweet, @Ms Spock ! :) :inlove: :hug:

You know, I was thinking, ptsd is really a difficult thing to manage, without adding on extra grief with self-doubt, self-reproach, worry, hesitation, & all the things we blame ourselves for (etc etc).

It probably would be helpful to really just let those go. :unsure:

 

[ms spock]

Have you read that book that anthony recommends? "Feeling Good The New Mood Therapy" by David D Burns? I have just started it, and it seems good. It lists ten cognitive distortions which you might find of use.

I would imagine that until you can stop blaming yourself and all that entails with self doubt, self reproach, worry, hesitation that it will be challenging to go forward.

As always take what you want and leave the rest behind.

 

[Tinyflame]

Dear @Ms Spock , I would never take any offence or discredit a suggestion from you! I know you work very hard & are very far ahead with your healing. :) :tup:

I have not heard of the book, sounds good. I do have a 'cheat sheet' of the cognitive distortions, thankfully because my biggest obstacle is getting the time to read & retain info from n entire book at present.

But, I think that I may be able to affect the thoughts by 'choosing to' drop them somewhat. That is, even though I can recognize a potential distortion but not necessarily believe (in my heart) that it's distorted, I can still elect to not think of it based on taking the opposite on faith it's a distortion rather than belief. Not avoiding it, but dismissing it. Dismissing it as being potentially a distortion, regardless of the probability (Likely-to-not-likely-a-distortion). If that makes sense?

I think I have to go slow on this stuff.

 

[ms spock]

Well our thoughts are inextricably linked to our feelings and vice versa, so when we are in a depressive episode our thoughts seem logical, even when they are entirely not rational at all, and if you don't have something to compare this to then you get sucked in by those thoughts and feelings.

Our feelings aren't facts.
And our thoughts definitely are not facts either - it just feels like that which is part of the depression.

Burns says " Even though your depressing thoughts may be distorted, they nevertheless create a powerful illusion of truth. p48

and But these abnormal emotions feel just as valid and realistic as genuine feelings created by undistorted thoughts, so you automatically attribute truth to them. This is why depression is such a powerful form of mental black magic. (p48)

 

[ms spock]

Once you invite depression through an "automatic" series of cognitive distortions, your feelings and actions will reinforce each other in a self perpetuating vicious cycle. Because your believe whatever your depressed brain tells you, you find yourself feeling negative about almost everything. (Burns, p 48)

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes @Ms Spock , I believe that is true.

Oddly, I don't find all my thoughts are negative, most aren't actually, but the ones that apply to myself or the future are. Sometimes I think that is from verbal abuse/ put downs directly. And also going hard on myself re: ptsd. Both I can challenge.

My greatest difficulty comes with fear, dread, & using up so much energy dealing with the ptsd. I need new batteries! :rolleyes: :)

 

[ms spock]

[DLMURL]https://www.myptsd.com/c/albums/the-mindful-way-through-depression-full-youtube.802/[/DLMURL]

Listen to 2:39:20 about ruminating thoughts and how to be with them. It talks about experiencing thoughts as mental events. Might be of interest.

2:40:42 - ruminating on and on and looking for answers that don't come to a depressed mind.

2:42:23 thoughts are not facts.

Might relate to what we have talked about.

 

[Tinyflame]

I will listen @Ms Spock , thank you, xoxox.

I heard it's ok to just accept when we have used up our energy, & trust that that is 'ok' . And that it's not selfish if that's as much as we can do, just trust it's 'useful enough'. I realized I have more self-hatred from not being or doing what I think I should be doing or able to.

I also thought, maybe, because so much goes directly to the ptsd, all the 'expected likely problems' but also ancillary common problems so many express here, that I don't have necessarily a complicated problem of ptsd, but a 'regular' problem of ptsd- since so much is directly related to it specifically!

Then later I thought of the craziest thing. I have to hem a pair of pants- & OMG I couldn't be a worse seamstress! The thing is, I think, "OK I have to shorten them by 3 or 4 inches", then I do. But I have one leg shorter (injuries?), so I folded them to where they should be, even though they are different. My leg length is 'me', my ptsd is me. Being passionate or having lots of energy is 'me', but so is being totally depleted. I can forgive pretty easily stuff, & also feel good about recognizing there is nothing to forgive or judge when I don't have a clue what I don't understand, but also I myself can be avoidant or fearful because of my own mistrust. Other things I wish I did differently or knew earlier I realize I still have learned or changed decades before most people think of it (in those ways). Etc.

Maybe that's what makes everyone unique? Maybe, though ptsd is bad, it's not 'doomed to be quirky' (me) but 'destined to be quirky'?

(((((((((((((Dear Ms Spock , xox ))))))))))))))))))

 

[ninja]

Oh. . . Thank you for this discussion.

 

[Tinyflame]

@Ms Spock , probably not for for me to comment in so far as I have not listened to it in it's entirety, but as you (& he) said, in identifying:

- ruminating on and on and looking for answers that don't come to a depressed mind, and
thoughts are not facts.

,

what I agree with here is applying that principle in regards to (non) judgment of one's self (negative self-talk) or of others, or drawing conclusions (therefore creating a 'reality' that may be anything but actually accurate.)

However I realize I don't find solace in or acceptance of 2 basic principles. The first is meditation as in 'observing' the thoughts; while I agree with that, the difficulty comes in reducing hypervigilance to meditate. That is a question of practice. What I find disturbing for me however is that it also seems to border dissociation pretty closely. For example, if I think of the 'thoughts' in recognizing pain, I can master nearly ignoring the pain exists, or delegating it to of zero importance. (Good for pain management, bad for addressing health issues). The same could be said emotionally. Depression is an extreme, so is numbing out.

The other principle I find difficult is this one: even without judging or guarding against creating realities, we (I) have to choose based on the information we have. I abhor going through life 'floating' or indecisive. 'Some' truth exists, & I don't want to be the last to know. Even more so, it's simply a required function of daily living to draw conclusions, & act or react accordingly, & make decisions. My analogy would be asking for help: if it's met with avoidance or lack of acknowledgment or negative reaction, we can leave out judgments of ourselves or them, but the one thing we will do is recognize that if the situation were reversed, we may have a somewhat accurate guesstimate of how they would react if we know them well enough. Or even how a majority of people would react.

Much as I'm against drawing judgments, without judgment one thing is certain, the probability someone doesn't make it a high priority will be reflected in their (or my) actions or lack of. Just as, for example, if we want to get paid, we go to work. Etc. That is, I think there is a point wherein we can be so open to not drawing some relatively realistically probable conclusions that we repeat mistakes (& that would qualify as creating an overly-optimistic reality.)