Termination Notice - Due To Ptsd Symptoms

[Knight-Soldier]

Ok, so I am actually currently employed by the Department of Veterans Affairs... However, today I received a Notice of Termination, due to Attendance Issues. Now before I get into that, I would like to offer a bit of knowledge in regards to my PTSD. I deal with Chronic Night Terrors, Chronic Insomnia, Anxiety Attacks, Hallucinations, Moderate to Severe Depression, an Inability to form working relationships with Supervising Figures, Social Anxiety, Anger Issues, and Flashbacks. I am currently rated at 30%, and know that it should be a higher rating, but the rating is not what I'm here to talk about.

From the get go, I informed my Supervisor, My Supervisor's Supervisor, and my Department Chief, that I had PTSD and dealt with sleep issues, to include Nightmares and Insomnia, which also lead to Anxiety Attacks and Hallucinations. They immediately let me know that they understood, and stated that they would be more than willing to work with me on it. Yet, as I stated at the beginning, today I received a Notice of Termination from my direct Supervisor. With all that stated, nearly all of my attendance issues have been due to me not being able to get enough sleep, waking up to anxiety attacks, or more often than not, a combination of both lack of sleep and waking anxiety attacks. The points in time, where they were not related to my PTSD, I had to miss work due to inclement weather conditions or being in an injured state after totaling my car. I have totaled 2 cars since I started working for the VA. One of the accidents was actually caused by a Flashback while driving down the road, and me hitting someone else before I had time to respond. The other car I totaled, someone else hit me, and then immediately after being hit I found myself surrounded by a large group of hostile people who were pissed at me. Which by the way, one of the traumatic events I dealt with was in a combat zone, where I was surrounded by an enormous group of people, quickly becoming hostile. Needless to say, the wreck where I totaled the 2nd car has very recently caused some of my PTSD Symptoms to flare up even worse.

The Notice of Termination specifically states that I am being let go due to attendance issues. Attendance issues that have been caused my PTSD symptoms, being in a car wreck, or a combination of both due to my symptoms flaring up after the accident. I have kept my supervisor informed of all situations, letting him know that me missing work was due to everything that I have stated above, and for the most part have actually even been able to cover most of those days with accrued leave. However, I have not been able to cover all of the days I have missed work with accrued leave, and was forced to take Leave Without Pay on a few occasions (No more than 5 days of Leave Without Pay in the last 8 months).

I do understand that me missing work can place a burden on my co-workers, and I feel bad for doing so as such. However, of all the places that I've worked, I expected the VA to be understanding of my situation. It is not as if I am wanting these things to happen, as I am also in the midst of going through therapy for my PTSD. Unfortunately, due to time constraints, I am only capable of going to therapy once every two weeks, and have been working through Anger Management Courses, per my own request. I have not yet been able to address everything else, and thus still deal with -ALL- of my sleep and anxiety issues. Today once I received my Notice of Termination, after forcing myself to come to work even after waking from a Night Terror and immediately entering an anxiety attack, I soon found myself yet again in an Anxiety Attack at work, but this time caused by the thought of me losing my job, car, and house rooted in PTSD. Luckily the Uncle whom lives, and carpools, with me bought a truck the same weekend I totaled my car, so I was still able to have a consistent ride to work. I even informed my boss of this, letting him know that it may be a bit before I could get a new car, but I would still have a way to get back and forth to work.

This Notice of Termination will go in affect after the following Pay Period, and I have already contacted my Union Representative to let them know about the situation. Other than my attendance issues, I have a Fully Successful Performance Review in all required duties. The one performance review that I do have, also does not state anything negative about my attendance issues or any other issues. I could even make the argument that my Customer Service to other Veterans has been exemplary and above the 'Fully Successful' mark. I believe this not only because I have received a reward after multiple Veterans recommended as much, but also because I will go above and beyond, moving outside my regular scope of work, just to take care of a Veteran. For example, my job description does not state that I deal with billing issues, but due to my gained experience while working at the VA, I have found out the proper paths to take to get billing issues taken care of. So I will almost always take ownership of many situations that are outside of my regular duties, and I do my best to take care of those situations for my Brothers and Sisters. Yet I am repaid in kind, by receiving a Notice that I am to be terminated.

I doubt that I will actually be terminated, due to the Union Rep and Union President knowing of my situation, but I want to know what to do if I am let go. Would this be possibly worth pursuing legal action? This is a Federal Agency that I would be attempting to take on, and I also live in an 'At-Will' state. However, I also believe that in these circumstances, I should be protected by the Americans with Disabilities Act. Also, if I am terminated and find a lawyer that would back me in a 'wrongful termination' case, should I possibly consider going to the media with this? It seems like something the media would eat up, but it may also prove to provide a lawsuit that would be even harder to settle, due to the VA not wanting to publicly admit fault to national media.

 

[Kintsugi]

I don't know about working federally, but I work for the state, and you... can't do that? Like, they can't fire you where I work without two formal write-ups for unsatisfactory performance unless there is an incident of abuse, abandonment, or neglect (which are all illegal, so, duh). I'm really surprised to hear that they would do that at a federal level.

I think you have a case, but I'll let the legal advice champs of the forum preside. We have some really smart cookies around here.

 

[Knight-Soldier]

I don't know about working federally, but I work for the state, and you... can't do that? Like, they can't fire you where I work without two formal write-ups for unsatisfactory performance unless there is an incident of abuse, abandonment, or neglect (which are all illegal, so, duh). I'm really surprised to hear that they would that at a federal level.

Well, I have received write-ups previously... There have been at least 2-3 times where I have received what my supervisor told me to be non-disciplinary actions. AKA The man gave me the equivalent of a military counseling. Let's just say there were three counselings in total, before receiving this Notice of Termination. Two of those three counselings happened for times where I had the accrued leave to cover those 'Sick Days'. Which is another thing that kind of threw me off, and I later found out that I should not have received those counselings, due to my supervisor not being allowed to question why I was taking sick leave when I never took more than 2 consecutive days of sick leave. I have taken 2 consecutive days only one time, and that one time was immediately after me being in the most recent accident. Which by the way, the most recent accident happened 2 weekends previous to receiving the Notice of Termination.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Thats a hard one because PTSD as well as all mental illnesses are protected by the federal discrimination law but it has precise stating that you have to be able to preform job duties, attendence would be in that, but most missed days are PTSD related so its like a circle.

Im not a 'legal expert' by any means nor am i a vet (my dad is) but i have read and read and read the law for myself.

The Union Rep should save you from a job loss, you are right there. Being that the country (way too many documentries on this) isnt taking care of our vet's mental issues like they should and you do work in THE PLACE the should understand that. I would say it would be worth persuing, or i would. Even just to get people to see that a vet working at the VA should be more understood then anywhere else.

Its a hard one for sure.

Thank you for taking care of our vets! The VA here sucks and im always hearing them jerking my dad around (and yes you should be way higher than 30%; my dad is on i believe 60% ish for claiming that all his 74 yr old medical issues are due to Agent Orange).

Im sorry you have to go through this! With service to our country should come w/ our country making sure your needs are met!

 

[Friday]

This is more along the lines of flanking your issue rather than addressing it:

Does the VA offer any flex-time positions, or can your job be converted into one? Either in the same department, or in a different dept.? Jobs that it doesn't really matter when you're there, as long as you're meeting your mission &/or hours.

I ask, primarily because attendance & punctuality are fairly permanent problems with me over the past 15 some odd years. How much of a problem (virtually nonexistent to severe) really depend on how well I'm doing. Flex-Time, work from home &/or your own recog, & gig work are the types of jobs that really let me rock out with my cock out. Where the focus is on my performance, not my presence. While I can work shift-jobs? They put me in a fairly precarious position. Joy. Stress. :wtf:

 

[Biz]

@Knight-Soldier , I have spent over a year trying to fight my previous company about their unfair treatment and my protection under the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act). My case is going to close in the next 1-2 months. Here are some things to think about.

One, if you do not have written record of telling your supervisor that you have PTSD, the company will make the argument that they did not know you were disabled and you should have filed for accommodations if your disability was affecting your work. (It's a bullsh*t shaming argument, but it's the most common one in disability cases, often, companies win with this argument alone).

Two, money, depositions, pain. How much do you want to fight this? For what reasons? Would finding something else be enough? How long do you want this to last? Are you willing to be deposed, potentially have your therapist deposed, and have to answer questions to any incident that ever happened at work? I knew I never wanted to go back to my previous organization, but I wanted to emphasize to them that they were wrong to treat me as they did. I feel, in some ways I did that. It cost me ~$7k to do that. I wouldn't go further because I felt it would be traumatizing to be deposed. I know that was the right decision for me.

Three, the VA will have it's own lawyers and lots of resources to support them. You will spend your money and theirs are on salary. I would wager this is not the first time the VA has dealt with a veteran working for them with PTSD symptoms being let go.

I'm so sorry they treated you like that. I hope you are able to do something that helps you find closure.

 

[Knight-Soldier]

Ok, so I'm glad that someone with at least experience with this kind of lawsuit is speaking up. First, let me state that the diagnosis is most definitely documented with the VA. It is a recognized Service Connected Disability, along with all the symptoms and more that I have stated in the first post. So when it comes to the argument of the legitimacy of the disability itself, there is none. As for the documentation of the missed days, I have it documented for every day that was a sick day as well. As for having it documented for my supervisor to see, that documentation is there as well. I have informed not only my supervisor through documentation of the PTSD, but have also informed his supervisor and the chief of the department. I made sure to take care of that the moment I met my supervisors in our initial meeting, after I was hired.

So needless to say, that documentation is there, the information was provided up front and the Attendance issues are most definitely caused by the PTSD. As for ~7k... If it came out over a year, and not -all- up front, then I would very easily be capable of affording that, even without employment.

 

[Biz]

It sounds like they knew about your disability Knight Soldier, but do you have a written record, an email or letter, that shows that? (Not to push the point, but the court, and a lawyer will ask you this).

Also, the deposition piece. That's why I stopped pursuing my case. I want nothing to do with depositions. Talking about my trauma history with strangers who would mainly like to locate my weaknesses, either as a witness or as a 'legal opponent', seems terrible. I don't want to hear coworkers deposed with their perceptions of how I was handling my trauma or my former boss to give her perception. It stopped me short of where things could have gone, and it's very common in disability/mental health cases. Are you willing to go there?

 

[Justmehere]

Working with your union rep is probably the most likely path to be able to get your job back anytime in the near future. You could talk to your union rep about a return to work with accommodations a modification of the attendance policy. Because it is a federal agency, the ADA does not apply here. But Section 504 of the Rehab Act does.

On the face of it, you have a very good reason to ask they do not terminate you, but keep you on, and change the policy to accommodate further disability related needed absences.

They might fight it, based on how you asked for the time off and etc, and based on the type of job you have, but because you are a part of a union, they may be even more motivated to work this out and not have the union hounding them about this possible civil rights issue.

Here's the not so good news...

As for suing them, suing government agencies is much harder than suing private employers due to government immunity laws and limits on claim amounts. It’s also a process that typically takes at least 2-3 years.

Even if they are 100% in the wrong, it still may be hard to find a lawyer to take the case on a contingency basis (where they get paid if you win, and don’t get paid if you lose). This is because the amount of money you could win may be less than what their legal fees would be, or otherwise not enough money for them to risk it. Unless someone is severely harmed (lost a limb or died) due to a federal agency’s actions, or there is a group of people victimized, most lawyers don’t want to risk that amount of legal work on a contingency basis for what probably would not be a high monetary win anyhow, even if you did win. That’s just the practical nature of a lawsuit against the federal government. (It's awful.)

However, you might be able to find a passionate attorney who specializes in VA law who is good a negotiating settlements and would want to take this on. Either way, consulting with an attorney in your area is the best way to know what your legal options and possibilities are.

You could also pay out of pocket for an attorney, but expect a retainer (sort of like a deposit) around 2 grand to start.

For now, you may have the most success working with the union rep. If that doesn’t work, try to explore any other non-civil suit advocacy options to get your job back.

If you do choose to sue, keep in mind that in most cases, people are required to officially start that process within 180 days of when you were fired. This is a very key deadline.

Edited to add: Any route you choose, be sure to document, document, document everything.

 

[Knight-Soldier]

Biz, the written record I would have to currently track down.... I am certain that I have a copy, but I am not sure where it is off the top of my head... Likely in my personal folder I keep for myself or in my records drawer at work, in my desk, which is under lock and key. I also know that my supervisor has a copy of a statement of me saying I had PTSD, and also of me stating that my attendance issues were due to that disability. I saw that statement with him just the other day... It was part of one of my performance appraisals. I will make sure to track that information down in my copies of the stuff that I have received from my supervisor, and I will have my Union Rep request copies of EVERYTHING my Supervisor has on me, if the rep hasn't already.

 

[Biz]

That's good. I hope you find your papers. Keep talking to your union rep; they'll be a great advocate. Really weigh out what is most healthy for you. Good luck Knight Soldier.

 

[Michael B.]

I doubt that I will actually be terminated, due to the Union Rep and Union President knowing of my situation, but I want to know what to do if I am let go. Would this be possibly worth pursuing legal action? This is a Federal Agency that I would be attempting to take on, and I also live in an 'At-Will' state. However, I also believe that in these circumstances, I should be protected by the Americans with Disabilities Act. Also, if I am terminated and find a lawyer that would back me in a 'wrongful termination' case, should I possibly consider going to the media with this?

I was terminated on 1/26/16 from my position with a government agency (Special District) after I notified them I was diagnosed with PSTD resulting from a workplace injury. I filed a complaint with EEOC in late 2014 and I'm awaiting the "Right to Sue" letter that will allow me to move forward with the legal process. Federal employees have an opportunity to file with EEOC, but first must read and understand the process in doing so. It is a lengthy process of 1-3 years just for the EEOC decision. Also, many people have asked me about going to the media with my story, and personally, I don't want to bring more pressure and have decided to use legal means only. Whistle-blowers are not treated well, in my opinion. I was an "At-Will" employee which means that I can be terminated for any reason at any time. And that is what happened.

I'm dealing with my situation on my own. I've applied for LTD insurance in November and I await that decision. Otherwise, I have qualified for Unemployment Insurance (even though I was fired) and will go that route if denied LTD.

You are fortunate you have Union representation. Stay in contact your Steward/Representative and hang in there!