The Purpose Of 'shame'

[Pencil]

@ghotiff what you, and others, are saying is that your shame protected your abusers. Ditto for me. I think this is a very important point. Alas, it is still not clear how shame elicits care giving.

Sorry @Valentino, I'm really trying to understand this, and I've been thinking about it a lot. I'm not simply trying to argue - with you or the author.

 

[ghotiff]

This is my thinking right now, but I might change my mind as I am not sure of the below, but here it is in case it helps clarify anything for you.
Note, that for me I think any potential shame feelings I have came from my 'betrayers' not my 'abusers', so this is in regard to my 'betrayers'.
If I hadn't felt 'shame', I would have reached out more often, discussed my abuse more often etc. The people around me who I disclosed to did not have the capacity to cope with my disclosures which is why they responded with minimisation and denial. If I had not 'respected their boundary' by being 'shameful' and instead had continued to tell my abuse stories until I was heard...they would have not been able to minimise or deny my abuse and so they would have started to avoid me, I would have had no friends etc. So in this example, care-giving was them being my friends....the friendship was limited but it was there.

 

[digger]

I understand what a caregiving response is, I can't understand how it is connected to shame.

Can anyone give an example of the type of care a child would receive from an abuser as a response to their showing shame? That's what I'm not understanding.

 

[digger]

Apologies @Lucycat - missed your post previously where you give an example. I still don't really understand it but I think that may be because I'm finding it hard to relate it to my own experiences.

 

[ghotiff]

I hate to write this because I personally think think is an absolutely horrific line of thinking, and I do not agree with it at all.....but I think the author may have thought that an abuser who clothes and feeds their victim is being 'care-giving' in providing those clothes and food. Added to this is that a child who is trapped in an abusive environment has only shame as an option as the author only allowed two other options of flight or fight - neither of which I believe are actually available to a child suffering abuse, particularly if that abuse is within the home.

I want to be very clear that I do NOT agree with this personally....by all means attack the potential view of the authors, but please don't attack me personally.

 

[digger]

He was also the person who provided my home, my food and organised my education./ My shame kept a roof over my head.

I think the author may have thought that an abuser who clothes and feeds their victim is being 'care-giving' in providing those clothes and food.

I guess my confusion is because I am thinking of 'caregiving' as needing to provide for emotional needs as well as physical ones (ie food, shelter etc). If the interpretation of caregiving is providing for physical needs, which at its most basic it could be, then the quote does make more sense.

 

[Hashi]

I'm suspecting that the disagreement and confusion is more about the idea that shame can be helpful in certain trauma... Or it's the idea that shame can be helpful period. That suggestion alone is likely triggering, and probably polar opposite to long held assumptions that were created as survival mechanisms in the midst of childhood trauma. Maybe there's some black and white thinking going on, labeling shame as all bad?

In my case, no. Shame isn't a defining characteristic of my response to trauma. Nor is submission or compliance. However, submission and compliance is my sister's characteristic response, and if I compare her and me at a time when my mother treated us both in a similar way, I don't see anything I'd call a caregiving response to my sister's compliance as opposed to my defiance. I got more abuse, but I don't see that my sister got more caregiving.

Response = action or behavior by a person in reaction to another (in this case an expression of shame by victim)
Care = Attention that is helpful to meet the physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual needs and wants of another person.
Caregiving = Above type care that is often associated as parent to child in primary caregiver role, or care that is given to someone who's ill or elderly.

Like @digger (if I understand correctly) I think a distinction between emotional needs and physical needs is key. Without specifying that, the quote is unclear and ambiguous. You may think it's unimportant, but I think unclear and ambiguous is unhelpful (and unscientific, and lacking in credibility).

 

[Pencil]

In addition to @Hashi's post above - compliance and shame are not the same. That care giving is elicited is a no brainer, I just don't think shame is the vehicle.[DOUBLEPOST=1400876820,1400876574][/DOUBLEPOST]I really wish the author would read this thread and comment. Really.

 

[Valentino]

I'm confused at everyone's confusion.

Are y'all really arguing about the validity of the complete and actual statement written by the author?

This is the exact quote everyone seems to be confused or arguing about:

Thus, the expression of shame has the potential to elicit a caregiving response from the perpetrator which could ultimately keep the victim as safe as possible within an unsafe situation.

With the qualifier of has the potential, it makes it possible for almost ANY sort of action or feeling to be the elicitor of a caregiving response. And the same thing with could ultimately, that's another qualifier which makes it totally theoretical and impossible to know for sure, almost anything is possible in an 'ultimate' context.

What's the point of getting caught up with this just one line, and miss the bigger context of what the author was trying to address??? This was clearly stated in the title of the paper: A Place for Shame In Betrayal Trauma Theory? She is simply exploring how shame and dissociation work in relation to close relationship trauma situations. She is doing research, exploring possibilities. This is not a paper trying to teach people how to use shame to control perpetrator's actions. The paper doesn't even try to address any therapeutic strategies.

The author did write a Doctoral Dissertation which goes into detail of her actual research with study groups of about 400 trauma survivors, this is the abstract:

FEELINGS OF SHAME AND DISSOCIATION IN SURVIVORS OF HIGH AND LOW BETRAYAL TRAUMAS by MELISSA G. PLATT

Defended & Completed May 2013 PhD to be granted 2014 after clinical internship
Advisor Freyd, Jennifer J.
Dissertation Abstract

Betrayal trauma theory posits that victims of abuse perpetrated by someone close are more likely to dissociate from awareness of the abuse in order to protect the needed relationship. Shame may likewise protect the relationship by turning the victim’s attention inward, thereby increasing the likelihood that the abusive environment will be overlooked. In this dissertation, the associations between shame, dissociation, and betrayal trauma were examined in two experimental studies. A third study examined the consequences of chronic shame. Aims were to determine whether shame and dissociation have a unique link with high betrayal traumas (HiBT), to understand the nature of the relationship between shame and dissociation, and to investigate the consequences of chronic shame.

In study 1, 124 female trauma survivors were randomly assigned to a high or low betrayal threat condition. Greater exposure to HiBT but not low betrayal traumas (LoBT) predicted increased shame and dissociation following high betrayal threat. Greater exposure to LoBT but not HiBT predicted increased fear following non-betrayal threat. Compared to non-dissociators, dissociators from threat endorsed more negative psychological consequences.

In study 2, 127 female trauma survivors completed a dissociation induction and battery of questionnaires. The bypassed shame theory, which proposes that dissociation serves to disconnect from the pain of shame, was examined. Results partially supported bypassed shame theory. Although feelings of shame led to a larger dissociation response to the induction, dissociation did not interrupt shame but rather led to even higher shame. Implications are discussed for a possible contributing role of shame to betrayal blindness.

In study 3, 247 trauma survivors completed online questionnaires addressing chronic shame hypotheses. Regression results revealed that all forms of chronic shame, especially trauma-focused shame, predicted negative health consequences. Correlation results revealed that HiBT was associated with more types of negative outcomes compared to LoBT and that HiBT but not LoBT was associated with chronic shame.

Taken together, results indicate that, like dissociation, shame may be both an adaptive and detrimental response following betrayal trauma and that emotional and cognitive responses other than fear warrant attention in trauma research and practice.

----- http://dynamic.uoregon.edu/jjf/theses/platt13.htm

re: caregiving & emotional needs

I don't see where people get the expectation of addressing emotional needs is within the common definition of caregiving.

Here's some official definitions of caregiver:

"A person who provides direct care (as for children, elderly people, or the chronically ill)" - Merriam-Webster Dictionary
"A family member or paid helper who regularly looks after a child or a sick, elderly, or disabled person." - Oxford Dictionaries
"A person who cares for someone who isn't able to take care of himself." - Your Dictionary

I grew up in a traditional Chinese culture family, and it's very common for parents to provide absolutely no emotional care, in fact it is beyond emotional neglect, because it's a systematic training to over-identify with shame, ignore all other emotions, and instilling a constant drive for duty and moral perfection. This is because Chinese culture is a shame based culture with a complex intertwined social enforcement structure of 'saving face', this is in contrast to western societies which are guilt (behavior) based and often value self-esteem.

An example of Chinese socialization:

What distinguishes the human being from the animal is shame. When a person does not know shame, his/her conscience would vanish. For such a person, parents would have no way to discipline; teachers and friends would have no way to advise. Without the will to strive upward, how could one improve? To be an official without shame is treacherous; how could he be loyal? To be a son without shame is disobedient; how could be be filial? To be a neighbor without shame is wicked; how could he be kind? ... As one knows shame, the sense of right and wrong would be realized, and his dying conscience would have a chance to revive.
--- The Pedigree (and Familial Instructions) of the Zhou Clan

 

[Pencil]

Valentino, yes, I got stuck in that one line. I can't for the life of me figure out how shame had any purpose for me, apart from PROVIDING care. In other words, I felt I had to do better, I protected my family by not speaking out, etc. But the interesting this is that thread made me realize just how much I HID my shame, especially from my abusers.

I really understand your frustration - you post something that has meaning for you and we all analyze one line for four pages. But is this not an indication that the author is ... not clear, or perhaps just plain wrong? Perhaps she means something that needs to be articulated differently, or explained, or qualified. Even with your explanations I still fail to see it.

So, how did it work for you? I can see from your quotations how it would work in Chinese culture. A child filled with shame is a good and obedient child and would therefore be worthy of receiving the basics. Perhaps this could be compared to the Christian idea of 'spare the rod and spoil the child'.

If you understand the author's meaning and intentions, won't you please explain?

 

[amy4k]

I just finished reading Platt's dissertation. In fact, I even pulled out a few quotes to save for later pondering.

Platt's focus seems to be on comparing High-Betrayal Trauma, meaning trauma that is inflicted in a close interpersonal relationship, and Low-Betrayal Trauma, described as low interpersonal involvement like an accident, and emotions such as shame vs. fear regarding memories. And, she also looked at the relationship between shame and dissociation.

Two quotes that spoke to me:

" Like dissociation, shame and self-blame may facilitate betrayal blindness by keeping the victim from perceiving any threat from the perpetrator and instead perceiving the self as the source of threat."

"Rather than dissociation serving to interrupt shame for the sake of avoiding pain, it may be that both dissociation and shame play a part in protecting the needed relationship with the perpetrator. In the case of dissociation, the victim is able to attend to the love and positive connection in the relationship while keeping the abuse out of awareness. In the case of shame, the victim may attribute her negative emotions to her own perceived flaws and inadequacies rather than recognize that she is being harmed by someone she trusts"

My feelings about my traumas are all very shame-based. I can see how my shame, my dissociation allowed me to maintain what I still describe as a love relationship with my parents even while I was experiencing emotional and verbal abuse at their hands. I could internalize that I was bad, I was wrong, etc. so that I could continue to love them as a child wants to love her parents. The long term-sexual abuse and the harassment at school all feed into my shameful-perspective I had of myself. And, as long as I could blame myself than I didn't actually fear those around me. Things happened to me because I was bad...not them. And, if I am ashamed of myself then the perpetrator is safe because "it is not their fault". They can continue to both caregive (even emotionally at times) and abuse, because I, the victim, believe it is because of who I am.

Often abusive parents and other interpersonal abusers create the shame in the victim by telling the victim that they deserve what is happening to them. A victim who internalizes this shame and owns it, makes it very easy for the abuse to occur over and over again.

This is what I got from the quote being discussed and then further reading.

Can you tell that shame is topic in almost all of my therapy sessions?

 

[Pencil]

Okay, it makes more sense now.