Therapist Clueless About Sociopaths

[Ronin]

What @FridayJones said.

It's also comparing the incomparable, @Dana1010. You're going on assumptions about child soldiers that are... nowhere near reality. Seems you're operating with very romanticizing & unresearched ideas of any of these experiences. It's... painful to see thousands of lives, generation after generation, are a trope to you. And no, thank you, saying something to the effect of 'those children were so unemotional about it, those poor souls' (paraphrasing)... Put down your cultural lenses, put down your condescending attitudes, *listen to* people. It may be people for whom it's lived reality, might actually feel safer when not encountered with such ignorance.

 

[shimmerz]

Pathological as in "indicative of mental or physical illness". Someone can be a liar. Someone can be cruel. A manipulator. A sadist.

For myself, I tended more towards the compulsive or obsessive definition of pathology. It is that that I relate strongly to if I were to describe this to a therapist.

 

[Pencil]

Maybe I'll try automobile accident terminology

:roflmao:

I don't find @Dana1010 's statements so contrary. I think there are two reasons for being generally in agreement with her (although I did not read the thread in detail, wanting to spare myself acute frustration):

Some statements may be sweeping and broad generalisations, BUT, she did not set out to define psychopathy or to contribute to the scholarly body of knowledge on the topic.

As far as I can see, she wanted to talk about the specific way in which some people operate that makes the victim go: "OMG I'm dealing with something VERY strange and scary (and possibly lethal) here." Whether that person has been diagnosed, has learned that behavior or was born like that, is capable of empathy or not, is a sociopath or psychopath or a narcissist or a whatever, clinically, objectively or verifiably, is really, really, really, beside the point. What is relevant is the damage they do. And what is even more relevant, is what is available to the victim to make sens of, and come to terms with, what happened.

The longer I live the more I see, observe and experience the human need to identify cause and effect. When we are confronted with something outside normal behaviour, we need to make sense of it, and we do so by looking for cause and effect. When something happens in interaction with others, and the others behave in a totally irregular way, we look for the cause in ourselves. 'He hit me because I was talking to another man (a colleague, a client, whatever)" It takes a shift to see that some people (the disordered) act the way they do due to who and what they are, and that their behaviour will NEVER make sense, no matter how hard we look for cause and effect, for sanity, for sense, for meaning.

We have to remember that Ted Bundy was NEVER diagnosed as a psycopath during his lifetime - he was diagnosed as anything from anti-social to borderline to .... and mainly posthumously. TO THIS DAY there isn't consensus on his pathology. The other thing we have to keep in mind is that Those Who May Not Be Labelled are diagnosed on the basis of THE DAMAGE They DO to OTHERS, not how they FEEL (which is the basis of most diagnoses).

It is only when I look at my sister's behaviour through the lens of sociopath, that her behaviour starts making sense: Is she capable of empathy? I don't care - it is irrelevant. What is relevant is that she KNOWS enough to know that having my daughter removed from my care will drive me to the brink of insanity, and so she tries to do just that (FIVE times in TWO years). Does she really want my daughter? I don't know and I don't care. What I do know is that she knows what she is putting us through. Can she empathize with my feelings? Does she know what the bond between a mother and a child is? Does she have maternal instincts? I don't know, for it is irrelevant. All I know is that she is hitting where it will hurt the most, and that is exactly why she is doing it. Has she ever been diagnosed? No. Will she ever be diagnosed? Probably not, unless she breaks the law, which she is careful not to do. All I know is that I'm dealing with a person who wants to hurt. Why does she do it? Does it give her pleasure? I don't know. Does she do it to win? I don't know. Does she do it out of anger? I don't know. All I know is that she is not normal, and she is not motivated by anything real, good, healthy, constructive, normal..... and so on. I don't look for reasons, I don't try to understand her. I see her as a sociopath (as suggested by a clinical psychologist) who is out to do as much damage as she can. It is only when I see her as a sociopath that there is in fact order, logic and sense in her behaviour, and she becomes predictable. And that is all I need. I don't need an official diagnosis. An official diagnosis will only be available AFTER a tragedy. I'm trying to avert a tragedy.

 

[shimmerz]

and she becomes predictable.

This to me encapsulates the difference in this type of trauma. It is ongoing. Strategies must constantly be put into place to protect oneself or our loved ones.

One cannot deal with our underlying traumas until we are given a mental 'break' from a cycle of unending attacks. Therefore, when those of use who are caught in this trap, we must have a therapist who understands the nature of our situation.

 

[Pencil]

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we must have a therapist who understands the nature of our situation.

Precisely, and that brings us back to the OP: It is imperative for the therapist to understand. It is the difference between the trauma counselor who said: 'But can't you talk to your sister?' and the psychologist who said: 'She fits the profile of a sociopath. Cut communication and interaction and RUN!'

 

[shimmerz]

But can't you talk to your sister?

I had to do my own research (on youtube of all places after investing tens of thousands of dollars with therapists who didn't 'get it').

I now understand that anything more than no contact whatsoever with this type arms them and damns me. They are 'special' in their pathological need to hurt their target. They most likely are charming to others. I won't bore anyone with stories but there are hundreds of them in my life to back this up. I now can identify this type of person and keep clear of them at not cost. My life is SO much better. It has not been without extremely painful losses however.

This question from your therapist is irresponsible and has the potential to be extremely dangerous.

 

[Dana1010]

Client: Well, aren't we going to talk about the car crash that caused my trauma?

Therapist: Why is it so important to you that you were in a car crash? Trauma is trauma. Now let's get back to the moment the airplane started experiencing turbulence.

 

[Pencil]

Or: Client: 'I was raped'.

Therapist: 'You had unprotected sex. Why is it so important to you to call the other person a rapist? '

 

[shimmerz]

Or....
Therapist: I get that the brakes failed when your car crashed but nobody can see anything wrong with them so I encourage you to just 'get on with your life' and back in that car instead of focusing on the past.

Client: But I am worried that the brakes will fail again. Just because nobody can see the problem doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

Therapist: That seems a bit paranoid to me. Here is a prescription that will make you forget all about it. Take these and you can hop right back in that car. No point dwelling on the past.

Dismissal, minimalization, denial, inappropriate description of problem (paranoia). If I thought about it the list could go on and on.

 

[shimmerz]

I feel like unless someone has experienced this type of abuse (and I can see this by this posting definitively), that this is beyond most people's comprehension - no matter how compassionate they may be. I can feel those that are posting that have survived this stuff. There is a knowing, an understanding, an authenticity that comes when speaking about this type of experience.

If one were to look, each of us as saying exactly the same things. It makes me sad that those who have been traumatized in different ways can't just trust that this experience is real for us, in the way we are describing without a general denial and dismissal by others.

 

[Dana1010]

I feel like unless someone has experienced this type of abuse (and I can see this by this posting definitively), that this is beyond most people's comprehension

Yep, that's how it looks. I think everyone on this thread who has experience with sociopaths readily acknowledges that they're different; not so much people but a force of nature like a tornado, and all you can do is stay out of their path. Sadly, nobody gets it until it's too late. I hope as the reality of the sociopath becomes more acknowledged in the mainstream - through books, documentaries, whatever - people will have at least a rudimentary knowledge of how to spot them.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Seven pages of debate makes me think that the OP isn't satisfied with the responses she is getting. I've seen it happen before, where the conversation just goes on and on and on....and for what? Ok, I TOTALLY get that some people like a good argument, and that's fine, but what does 7 pages accomplish other than a whole lot of.....nothing? No, I'm not trying to be rude, rather it seems that you posted a very straightforward question and when you don't get everyone to agree with you, the thread just continues on and on and on.

Is trauma at the hands of a psychopath/sociopath different than other traumas, at least in its delivery? Yes......BUT, this argument can be made for ANY trauma. The delivery of trauma where you see your best friend die beside you in a war zone is different than being raped. (Do you see where I am going with this?) I get the feeling that you want to say "my trauma is special because...." for one reason or another, perhaps as a form of validation? Is it a way of justifying why you are suffering more? Or maybe as a way to explain why your healing isn't progressing as perhaps you expected? Uhm, everyone has trauma that was "special" (read: different) in one aspect or another.

Why do I say "no"? Because in my trauma, I feel as if I've been mind f*cked, and no, my abuser (the emotional one) was not/is not a psychopath, but she does do the manipulation thing, she does change from one type of person to the next. So what you describe is not necessarily limited to sociopaths and/or psychopaths, rather can be seen in others as well. I literally feel like it was as if I was living in the twilight zone. You don't know which way is up or down, left or right.

Instead of spending SO much time debating how abuse at the hands of a psychopath is different, why don't you spend this time constructively looking for a new therapist! A therapist who thinks that sometimes people are just jerks isn't EVER going to get it and it is time to find a new therapist NOW. You need to find a therapist who understands the aspects of manipulation and character switching which can confuse their victims and turn it into one big mind f*ck.

So 7 pages of debate when it simply comes down to a therapist who doesn't understand your type of trauma or know how to help you deal with the aspects of manipulation or character switching. Who cares what we think? If you have a problem with the way your therapist is handling your healing, find a new one. No need to debate this until the end of time. Its your life, its your healing. Do something about it if you don't like it.