Tired of my wife's yelling

[TiredOfYelling]

What is that hope based on?

Well, things will probably get better for the kids, because, eventually,...

Thanks for sharing your perspective. It seems that everyone thinks this is an open and shut case of abuse. I'm really listening to that, and I'm going to discuss all this with my therapist in our next appointment. Still, I want to make sure I'm communicating clearly.

I think my wife does have a desire to change. She's seen a number of therapists over the years. The problem is that she's the type of person that feels compelled to do things, and that makes her have very limited time. I definitely don't think she yells because she cares mostly about feeling good in the moment. She yells because she feels powerless, because she's unable to come to grips with her own traumatic childhood. (Her mother is a very difficult person. She called my wife a prostitute in public for sleeping with me before marriage; she had a fight with her own son 18 years ago and has since almost never seen her own grandchild due to her refusal to make up; when I once invited her to stay with us out of politeness, she immediately claimed I was doing that because I wanted free child care, etc.) She tries desperately hard to help other people, but she's often doing things that people don't really need. She ends up burning herself out, and then she goes crazy.

An example: our younger son had a soccer game 100 miles away that conflicted with a piano recital. She was planning on driving him there, staying for only 30 minutes, and then driving to the piano recital before I convinced her that that was too much. But she regularly has trouble setting boundaries and then becomes frustrated that she doesn't get the appreciation she wants.

Her screaming is also not generally filled with ad hominem attacks. A lot of the time, she really wants my son to develop good habits (a very healthy habit), but she gets trapped in vicious cycles. So she'll repeat herself over and over again, making no progress. She wants our older son to become more efficient (he's not at present) so he won't have difficulties later in life. It's this motivation that causes her to push herself past her ability to take care of herself. The long periods of screaming are perhaps more intermittent periods of yelling interspersed with long periods of exasperated frustration.

Still, she has major issues, and I'm not happy. Just because she's not a terrible person doesn't mean I have to accept it. And I don't want to live like this...

 

[scout86]

What happens when your wife sees a therapist? Is she willing to listen to and apply their advice?

There's something about your description of her that reminds me of my mother. My dad adored her. I never quite got it, because I was the one she screamed at.

When I got into therapy myself, I slowly realized that my mom had some major mental health issues. And yet, she had nothing but scorn for anyone who was weak enough to 'need help' of that sort. (Trust me, I never in a hundred million years would have told her I was in therapy. She thought little enough of me as it was.)

One of the things my therapist said about my mother is that it sounded to him like, when she was upset about something, she had no other way to handle it besides spew a bunch of emotions out there and expect someone to fix them. I truly don't understand how that works. Probably never will. It's possible, maybe likely, that somewhere behind all that, she meant well. It was damaging never the less. She was who she was. Maybe she couldn't help it. But she was also capable of being pretty toxic. I use to imagine what it would have been like to be adopted into a family where I was actually wanted. Until I decided that the truth was, no one actually wanted me, unless there was something they wanted me to do for them.

Motives don't always matter. Actions do. Life is to short to be miserable. I'm not sure what the official definition of 'abusive' is. What I am sure of is that in a bad situation, you have 3 basic choices. Live with it, change it, or get out. You DO have a responsibility to make sure you're kids grow up capable of having a normal relationship, if you can. And we tend to think that what we grow up with is 'normal'.

 

[The Albatross]

Sounds to me like the erosion of communication and problem solving skills.... partners need to revisit them fairly often in long term unions because they create detrimental/bad habits and behavior.

 

[anonymous]

Being around yelling causes so much tension and really impacts an environment. I used to work with someone like that, it was miserable.

 

[Lionheart]

When I am yelled at, I walk away until the person calms down, then I explain that they can get their message across without yelling at me.

I can't think when someone is shouting at me and I want to address the issues at hand. If reasoning doesn't work, I will permanently remove myself from the situation until they agree not to yell at me.

Also it sometimes helps to whisper a response as it forces them to quieten down in order to hear your responses. I hope you are able to resolve the situation without it escalating to a shouting match.

 

[LuckiLee]

She IS her mother!!

I feel for your children. They don't deserve this. You as the "healthy" parent have to get them out of this environment if your wife is unwilling to change.

Good luck!

 

[Scarlet13]

So, there are some signs in what you wrote that seem to point to Narcissism. This is something you could research and bring up with your therapist. My mother has NPD and I am recovering, so sorry if I am projecting here. But, some things just seemed to me to be red flags for NPD. Yelling excessively at you and her children and especially if she does not get appreciation sounds very narcissistic. Does she seek to control you or the children? Does she guilt trip, lecture, or criticize? Does she think she is the perfect wife/mother? Does she ever say sorry? Does she act like a martyr? NPD is not something she will ever admit to having or would own. The fact that she won't continue with therapy and yet continues to rage is a tip off as well.
Even if she does not have NPD or only some traits, she is still verbally abusing you and your children. Verbal abuse is just as bad and destructive as physical abuse.

Trust me when I tell you, your son is absolutely impacted by this. His "ok appearance" and comparing her yelling to rain is a defense mechanism. He has to survive, so he has to force it to "not bother him". This might not just impact his relationships, but everything, his self esteem, his career, his success as an adult, his life as a teen.

You are making excuses for her behavior. It is one thing to try to understand behavior, but it sounds like you are in a way excusing it. I know you know its wrong, but it does not matter how much she loves them or does for them. If she is verbally abusing them then she is not loving them the way they need.

 

[The Albatross]

Still reads like a deterioration in communication and problematic styles to me... they do degrade without reconnection and work over time.

 

[TiredOfYelling]

Thanks to everyone for expressing your thoughts. I had a long discussion with my therapist about all of this yesterday. Her thought was that, while my wife is sometimes abusive, she's not an abuser; it's true that her behavior is not constructive, but it usually comes from trying to help fix something and getting frustrated that it isn't going the way she wants it to. My therapist also pointed out that if we got divorced, half the time, the kids would be with her, alone, and she might end up actually acting worse. While I appreciate the many opinions people have expressed about the consequences in the future for my kids, I tend to agree with my therapist.

This isn't to say that her behavior is acceptable or that I'm okay with it. I still have to decide what to do. But I do feel a little better about my children's future.

The Albatross, you're absolutely right. We have had a breakdown in communication. I'm not really sure if I can come back from all this and actually respect her as a person, but if we do get back to trying, I do know that I have a number of issues to work on myself.

 

[scout86]

but it usually comes from trying to help fix something and getting frustrated that it isn't going the way she wants it to.

I could be wrong, but I think if you'd asked my mom, she'd have said she resorted to screaming at me and calling me names for exactly those reasons. I've never called her 'an abuser'. She is, however, part of the reason I have PTSD. I'm not quite sure when one stops being merely abusive and becomes an abuser.

Does your wife understand that her behavior causes harm?

 

[NoWhereKnowWhere]

TBH your therapist sounds like a joke.

My mother didn't mean to be abusive she wasn't well it wasn't 100% her fault. Yet here I am. Intentions mean nothing absolutely f*ck all in the eyes of a child who hasn't had a chance to build a resilient self. Someone who hasn't had a life time of learning coping skills and how to not take things personally.

I used to lie for my mother help her cover shit up because I didn't want her to get into trouble. That's what kids do for abusive parents that and blame themselves. If I was better she wouldn't hit me if I could anticipate irrational behaviour maybe she would be happy and not yell. If I was a good little girl maybe things would be better. Then when you realise your damned if you do/don't might as well please myself.

 

[TiredOfYelling]

I appreciate all the responses, but I can see that I'm in the wrong place. Good luck to all of you.