General What are they thinking?

[Freida]

So a bit more on isolation. It can be very calming for me. I think sometimes supporters dont realize that. Yes...sometimes my brain is eating itself and I have to escape. But sometimes It like now....I'm totally dissociated, so I'm calm. And I need to isolate to keep it that way. I've gotten the noise in my head down...for the moment. When that happens isolating is necessary to keep someone "out there" from making me pay attention to anything and lose the veil. Then it will all start up again. So I hide in my corner and enjoy the calm while it lasts

 

[EveHarrington]

I think it's important to note that there are various ways that sufferers create this "calm". I know a lot is said about isolation, but there are many of us who do not isolate. I don't isolate but I find ways to create comfortable distance. Some of us want to be totally alone....zero contact is the comfort zone. Others (like me) have a comfort zone that is somewhere between normal contact and total isolation. I am FOREVER trying to get people into this ever moving zone.

 

[Freida]

Random thought on the difference between isolating and walking away. I wasn't sure if I wanted to put this here or in my diary ..... maybe both.

I've been thinking alot about the supporters who have sufferers who just walk away. They turn around one day and poof...they are gone. So I asked myself if I've ever done that. Usually when I isolate it is to create calm in my head -- not because I'm upset with someone or want to break up or any of that nonsense. I just need my brain to stop screaming and sometimes those I love are collateral damage in that process.

But walking away. As in never looking back? Yep - I've done that too. I just don't know that it's a ptsd thing. I'm pretty pragmatic. If I'm hurt by someone or betrayed or any of those angry things I bail. I might give people a couple chances to fix it but if they don't --then that's it. I'm gone. They will never hear from me again.

Is that ptsd speaking? Or is that just my super special way of dealing with relationships and the ptsd numbing makes it easier to do? If they try to come back into my life? Nope. They are pretty much dead to me. Again - ptsd? Or does ptsd just make it easier because it breaks down my "caring" part? (or.. is it just one more mal adaptive coping mechanism to deal with in therapy?)

yep - totally random thoughts banging around. No idea where I'm going with it -- other than the idea that walking away might be it's own type of isolation....??? Like a permanent one. Or maybe not. hmmmm.....

 

[blackemerald1]

No.. I don't think it is isolating or anything mental. It's being practical in my view. So long as you say what you are doing and you say it the right way.

I think the big difference in a lot of cases is that the ppl who disappear and DON'T TELL their loved ones are dickheads and they cause a huge amount of psychological damage and grief.

Similar to the new age of ghosting... which is known to cause a load of grief for those being ghosted.

The only time I think it's okay to leave without saying is when there is a risk of harm... DV etc., That is completely understandable.

I'm very much the same as you @Frieda I will tell ppl that I am not coping with whatever they are doing or is going on. I will ask them to stop and then they get to chose. If they do I try let it go.

But if they chose to ignore... pff.... I am gone and they know why and there isn't a way back. I have been that way all my life and it works. I think there are a few ppl out there who behaved like toddlers and thought I would give them 250 million warnings and discovered to their dismay, I only give one and that's me being thoughtful about it.

Example:-
I had a really lovely friend once who allowed her dogs to chase my horse. I told her that was a capital offence in my view and there was no room for a repeat. She allowed it to happen again and I asked her to take her dogs and leave and never bring them back. She thought I was joking until I picked up her dogs and locked them in her vehicle and told her I wasn't mucking around. She begged and pleaded with me for a few years - stubborn woman! There was no going back and then she got angry with me. What a drama queen. :rolleyes: Somehow all the neighbours (who didn't own horses huh!) thought it was me being too stupid. I don't think so. And it had nothing to do with having ptsd.

 

[EveHarrington]

No.. I don't think it is isolating or anything mental. It's being practical in my view. So long as you say what you are doing and you say it the right way.

I think the big difference in a lot of cases is that the ppl who disappear and DON'T TELL their loved ones are dickheads and they cause a huge amount of psychological damage and grief.

Similar to the new age of ghosting... which is known to cause a load of grief for those being ghosted.

The only time I think it's okay to leave without saying is when there is a risk of harm... DV etc., That is completely understandable.

I'm very much the same as you @Frieda I will tell ppl that I am not coping with whatever they are doing or is going on. I will ask them to stop and then they get to chose. If they do I try let it go.

But if they chose to ignore... pff.... I am gone and they know why and there isn't a way back. I have been that way all my life and it works. I think there are a few ppl out there who behaved like toddlers and thought I would give them 250 million warnings and discovered to their dismay, I only give one and that's me being thoughtful about it.

Example:-
I had a really lovely friend once who allowed her dogs to chase my horse. I told her that was a capital offence in my view and there was no room for a repeat. She allowed it to happen again and I asked her to take her dogs and leave and never bring them back. She thought I was joking until I picked up her dogs and locked them in her vehicle and told her I wasn't mucking around. She begged and pleaded with me for a few years - stubborn woman! There was no going back and then she got angry with me. What a drama queen. :rolleyes: Somehow all the neighbours (who didn't own horses huh!) thought it was me being too stupid. I don't think so. And it had nothing to do with having ptsd.

Running livestock, farm animals is a HUUUUUGE no-no.

I would have kicked her to the curb, too.

(It's amazing how there are crazy dog people out there who place their dogs above all else. Have a few of them in my family!)

 

[grimalkin]

I'm very much the same as you @Frieda I will tell ppl that I am not coping with whatever they are doing or is going on. I will ask them to stop and then they get to chose. If they do I try let it go.

This is what some of us are not receiving. My own sufferer told me that once he has a bad opinion of someone, there is no turning back, and they can't convince him otherwise (which, yes, coping skill based on being manipulated in the past). I can live with that. Unfortunately, my sufferer was one who would tell me I was doing something that bothered him, but refused to tell me what that something was (looking back, he probably didn't even know himself most of the time), so I got strikes against me without even knowing why or for what.

Then I was on the receiving end of the bad opinion, over miscommunication. Even once he acknowledged that it was miscommunication, "The damage was done," I had "too many strikes" against me, and there was no turning back. I think that might be when it becomes maladaptive. And he didn't trust me, our therapist, or anyone else, to point out that his version of reality might be through the lens of PTSD, and thus warped.

On one hand, I get it - we all have to trust ourselves, and our guts, to tell us when we're in danger. On the other, when your lizard brain sees nothing BUT danger, even from those who have no intention of hurting you (and are possibly not even aware they are), the running really does seem like something that needs to be addressed.

I don't know what the answer is. I don't expect anyone to stay in an abusive relationship, and obviously there might not be looking back from leaving one.

I do know that, for my sufferer, and from reading around here, for others as well, the person on the other end may be taken completely by surprise, because while the sufferer thought they WERE communicating, they actually weren't. Or at least not in a way the other person understood (I was bewildered a lot of time when my sufferer thought he was communicating with me - and I'm trained to listen).

Of course, the example @blackemerald1 gave, with the dog chasing the horse? THAT is very clear.

 

[blackemerald1]

Even once he acknowledged that it was miscommunication, "The damage was done," I had "too many strikes" against me, and there was no turning back. I think that might be when it becomes maladaptive. And he didn't trust me, our therapist, or anyone else, to point out that his version of reality might be through the lens of PTSD, and thus warped.

^^ If there is a miscommunication then it simply doesn't count. I don't understand what has happened to you ^^ It does sound very maladaptive and unhealthy.

Communication is absolutely critical and if there is any doubt that something is not understood there should be (in my view) time and options for working it out.

I have never cut anyone out of my life without them knowing exactly why.

I loathe ghosting behaviours I think they are very primitive and disrespectful. I know they are a common feature of the 'dating' landscape now and I know people that indulge in it even with family members. It says much more about the ghoster's than the ghostee's and I'm totally sick of hearing about it. Idk when it became a socially acceptable way of discontinuing a relationship. Idk when it became the default way of ending a relationship but honestly the sooner it stops the better. It does a lot of harm.

Your description sounds like more of an ultimatum by your sufferer @grimalkin - and that's not constructive at any time. I view ultimatum's as a form of blackmail and emotional blackmail at that.

 

[Freida]

because while the sufferer thought they WERE communicating, they actually weren't. Or at least not in a way the other person understood (I was bewildered a lot of time when my sufferer thought he was communicating with me - and I'm trained to listen).

this is sooo me!!! I would think yep -- I'm saying it. I'm sharing whats bothering me. And yet - they didn't get it. So of course my ptsd brain made it all about them not wanting to listen to me -- not about me not saying it in a way they could understand.

It wasn't until I came here and started reading the supporters side of things that some of the light bulbs started going off. yep -- my supporters are very happy I found the ones here who could smack me upside the head and say ...hey!!!! WTH are you thinking?!

Hence the name of the thread :roflmao::laugh: :banghead:

 

[Hojay]

l’m saying it. I'm sharing whats bothering me. And yet - they didn't get it. So of course my ptsd brain made it all about them not wanting to listen to me -- not about me not saying it in a way they could understand.

If I had a penny every time this has happened to me with my sufferer, I’d be a very rich woman. It’s very painful for him to see that even his best efforts of communicating something sometimes isn’t communicating much at all. He gets angry with me for not “listening” or getting it and I can see how much of a struggle it is for him to not just shut down completely and give up. A part of me is afraid he already has to a certain degree or will for good at some point.

It’s very painful for both of us. I too have been trained to listen—even between the lines expressions of needs—but if you’re told over and over that you’re just not listening and something was already explained to you “a million times” it starts to wear down your own perception of reality and capabilities. It’s a struggle for me sometimes to keep perspective and remind myself that I’m fully capable of listening when I’m spoken to in a way that allows it. I’m trying hard to learn his language and not ask too much of him in terms of perfect communication, but sometimes it feels like not even that is enough. And then i have to grapple with the reality that I’m not able to take away his pain of having been unheard, misunderstood, and emotionally neglected that way in the past, and that those things may very well mean we will drift further and further apart. It’s really pretty painful.

 

[Tinyflame]

I do know that, for my sufferer, and from reading around here, for others as well, the person on the other end may be taken completely by surprise, because while the sufferer thought they WERE communicating, they actually weren't. Or at least not in a way the other person understood (I was bewildered a lot of time when my sufferer thought he was communicating with me - and I'm trained to listen).

^^ I think this is familiar to me too, and very true.

So of course my ptsd brain made it all about them not wanting to listen to me --

** Or they heard and made the choice best for them.

I can see how much of a struggle it is for him to not just shut down completely and give up.

^^ I would also think that is probably true. But he is still trying, from what you said, as are you.

Sorry for your experience too, @blackemerald1 :( .

 

[Hojay]

But he is still trying, from what you said, as are you.

I hope so. We’re on something of a planned isolation for the week with minimal to no contact. Things were just getting too heated and argumentative, putting us both in a lot of pain. He says he’s using the distance to get back to himself, which is good and desperately needed. For me too. But I’d be lying if I said it doesn’t also feel like a slow untethering and distancing. Nothing I can do but focus on myself.

 

[jc787]

Is it normal during a shut out for them to try to get you to move on? Should I take it at face value? Is it just a symptom thing? I saw that some older threads had situations like this that ended up working out in the end. I failed to keep space and sent maybe 6-7 texts during the first month, to work out some practical living situation stuff that really needed addressed. They usually replied in simple robotic sentences and also said they didn't know how they felt about the relationship yet. Then weeks later I sent one more, saying that I couldn't bring myself to start any new relationships due to lingering feelings. They said they didn't want that. Really vague and confusing. I replied saying I would be patient until we're able to have a discussion, but they never read it. Not even left on seen. I'm not doing too bad, living my life but I'm just wondering what my next move should be. They stuggle with empathy. I saw an article here saying writing a letter was a good idea. Should I go for straight empathy or attempt to get clarification? I really don't know what to say and don't want to pester them anymore