What does it mean to be a good person?

[shimmerz]

I think personal values and ethics come to play in this good/bad thing in a big way.

In my family of origin, you were a bad person if you didn't go to church every day.
In my own framework, I don't go to church. But if I did, it would be hypocritical to go to church and be a thief, for instance. That would be bad.

Why bad? Maybe bad is a terrible word to use. I think it would be inconsistent. And I have learned to not trust people who are inconsistent insofar as my values and ethics. So I stay away from them. Not because they are bad or good (again, I believe that is relative to the players) but rather because it causes confusion in my brain/nervous system.

This has been a big question for me along the way of healing. The construct of good/bad clearly was not helping my worldview because I kept falling in with 'bad' people. Now that I have changed the verbage (who am I to determine what is bad or good but rather does it match my vision) it is much easier to figure out who is supportive to me and who screws with my sense of safety, belonging, kindness, etc, etc etc.

It's so indiviidual, but really do find that the social construct is not so much help for my traumatized self.

 

[Cactus Bloom]

It’s interesting that you have brought this up right now because my latest obsession is exactly about this topic. I’ve obsessed over it at different times but end up so frustrated that I just say screw it and then I become obsessed with another topic and on and on it goes.

One question to those that say we “choose” I question if that is true. Do we really have free will? There are neuroscientists that are making the case against free will and I know questions like these and what is good and bad have been going on since the beginning of time. I can only speak to my personal experience that no, I do not have free will because my actions and thoughts were dictated by the trauma I have endured since birth. I’ve done a lot of research into what happens to our survival mechanism when it is chronically activated; the fight, flight, freeze, fawn response that each of us have. I’ve come across some really good people that for me makes a lot of sense when it comes to trauma and our behaviors. Dr. Gabor Mate is my favorite and think he’s spot on with his research and real life experiences in understanding trauma. He’s on YouTube and also has groundbreaking books out there that I have read. Dr. Stephen Porges has developed the Polyvagal Theory to explain trauma and the nervous system. I found a woman by the name of Irene Lyon just recently on YouTube and she has her own website also and does a wonderful job explaining the vague nerve and stress and why many traumatized people aren’t healing no matter what they try to do to help themselves. Peter Levine is another good one to look into. And Dr. Vincent Felitti has uncovered the link between early childhood adversity/abuse with chronic illnesses later in life. I know I just dropped a lot of names and I’m hoping maybe something can make sense to someone else as to why many of us humans are good people but may do hurtful things to others or why there are so many people in so much pain.

Even with me understanding that concept that there really aren’t truly “bad” people, it’s still hard to be empathetic towards those who do truly horrible things to others. I have never had a problem with knowing I am a good person because I have not hurt anyone (as far as I know. Maybe I have hurt someone’s feelings sometime throughout my life without knowing. That’s entirely possible).

 

[Teasel]

Appreciate the name dropping @Fionas74 Some more theories to check out :-)

 

[Freida]

I'm trying to tell myself that fundamentally, there is nothing "bad" about me. I am no badder than any other person, at the core. There is nothing outright bad, or dirty or shameful. Nothing that makes me more likely to act immorally than any other person. And the things that have happened to me, the things I did or they did to me, more accurately, they don't make me fundamentally bad either.

This ^^^ is brilliant. And I think really gets to the core of the question. "Am I a bad person if bad things happened to me?"

 

[EveHarrington]

It’s interesting that you have brought this up right now because my latest obsession is exactly abou...

I think it would be good for you to take an intro anatomy class. The fact that the nervous system is slow to heal is nothing new. It’s not groundbreaking research. It’s simply a fact. Certain parts of the body heal more slowly than others, if at all. Not being able to heal those parts of the body doesn’t mean we don’t have free will! When the nervous system is quite damaged, it will never be fully healed. We will continue to have trauma reactions. This phenomenon is not unique to our disorder. Having a life that is INFLUENCED by trauma does not mean that we are unable to make choices for our own betterment. I don’t doubt that you have a life very much influenced by trauma. I don’t doubt that you have automatic reactions. But to say that each and every thing you do has been pre-determined by trauma? Nope, not buying it.

 

[Cactus Bloom]

Appreciate the name dropping @Fionas74 Some more theories to check out :)

...[/QUOTE]
I know there’s so much information out there and for me, I am just learning. That’s it. Doesn’t mean that what I accept as something that seems right for me is right for anyone else but I have a curious and open mind and it’s exciting for me to share. Nobody has to agree or disagree. It’s just a gift from me to you. A no strings attached gift which unfortunately I’ve come across a few people in my life who unfortunately assume that any gift given has strings attached. Not with me:)

I think it would be good for you to take an intro anatomy class. The fact that the nervous system...

You know what Eve, I don’t care what you think.

 

[frogthroat]

"Am I a bad person if bad things happened to me?"

If you add personal responsibility to chance then you're going to carry around lots of unneeded guilt.
How many of us on here were born into broken homes? Did we deserve the violence committed against us? That's the problem I have with belief systems that involve concepts like sin or karma. That's just my personal opinion though. It's something that never brought me any comfort.
Plus, then you get obsessed. I was obsessed with sin as a kid always telling myself "this happened to me because I cry too much" or because I wanted attention etc. Do people always reap what they sow? How can you deserve to be punished before you even exist? I'm not trying to start a philosophical debate or anything. Everyone can believe what they want but I think it's toxic to place blame in yourself for some things that are clearly fate.

 

[user27357]

If you had enough religion in your childhood for it to f*ck you up then you know what I'm talking about

In my family of origin, you were a bad person if you didn't go to church every day.

And there it is.....the most accepted decider of good and bad in our world, organized religion.

Personally, I was victim to the most narcissistic religious people I have ever met, my own father and stepmother. It took me years to realize that I could be a good person and still not be accepted as a worthwhile person by them.

I had a moral compass, given to me by my birth mother and her family before it was put into doubt by the rules and constructs of a cult like branch of christianity taught by my stepmother. It took years before I could see that being a good person didn't include blind devotion to a set of rules, being good was all about having empathy and a concern for others and how your actions affected them. Being good was all about not putting yourself first, being good was all about being aware that you could positively affect the lives of those around you.

I could smoke cigarettes and be a good person, I could have a drink and be a good person, I could fail to accept christ as my personal savior and be a good person. According to my stepmother, just saying a bad word in my mind, not even making the air vibrate with the sound of it, just thinking "f*** that sh*t" was enough to send you straight to hell. The god that gave us sex and music and warm puppies was just waiting for a chance to deem you a bad person and toss you in the lake of fire for it.

And because of that line of thinking, me and millions like me have this voice in our heads telling us we are bad because we say bad words and dont go to church enough and listen to that devil music and like barbecued shrimp.

F**k that sh*t.

if there is a hell it waits for them, not us.

Good people are measured by their acts. and the simplest form of measurement for me has become: Selfish/Not selfish.

Some of the most selfish, self righteous bastards I have seen in my lifetime have a bible in their pockets and no sense of being bad in their heads because they are OK with the guy upstairs and any ill effect their selfishness has on the lives of the sinners down here just doesn't matter.

Not all bibles have an asshole attached. Christians and religious people in general are good to the last. But when led in a bad direction, they can be capable of the most judgemental acts, even acts against humanity. Always remember and never forget, the largest army to ever march into battle with a government issued bible in their pockets was the third reich. The same bible that Mother Teresa read.

 

[Cactus Bloom]

And there it is.....the most accepted decider of good and bad in our world, organized religion.

Persona...

Agree wholeheartedly 100%!

 

[mamachick]

@enough, I did not have that religious experience but believe exactly what you are saying. I am seeing a lot of churchy people doing a lot of things that are not what I consider good acts. As you said, going to church would not being authentic for you and would feel false.

Also, I am an adult child of alcoholic in recovery and attend groups. Many members are also recovering addicts. They often share shitty things that they have done, stealing, being bad parents, being promiscuous, etc. This does not make them bad people. Most addicts I have experience with also have a history of trauma. ACOA's often are people pleasers as well, and put others first. Its not that that is bad, but its unhealthy. Eventually they may feel used and blow up. So doing for others can also be so-dependency. There is nothing wrong with taking care of our own needs, but many of us have been taught that is a selfish act. When we take care of ourselves, it is much easier to be kind and giving to others. There are also those that will take advantage of your good nature.

I am not a recovering addict, but following trauma a few years ago, I did some really shitty things. I engaged in sex when I didn't really want to. I froze at times. Then I felt like I was a bad person. I told people to f...off when they really didn't deserve it. I made some bad decisions. Then the quilt, and feeling like a bad person. Bad behaviors such as described above does not define who we are. I wouldn't think that of a friend if they were doing the same thing. There is legitimate guilt, when we behave in a way that we know is harming to ourselves and others. Then there is guilt we feel for just being, or for things out of our control. Its sure not a simple thing.

 

[frogthroat]

Everybody take a different type of philosophy class and then come back. Lol This is really getting interesting. I'm really enjoying reading all this.

They often share shitty things that they have done, stealing, being bad parents, being promiscuous, etc. This does not make them bad people.

This is where "good" and "bad" get their chocolate in each other's peanut butter. If doing shitty things doesn't make you bad and just makes you flawed you have to apply that to people like mass shooters, serial killers, and sadists too. So how can either really exist? Yes, there's shit that happens to you personally that you feel is good and bad for you but it doesn't register on a universal scale.
I think we're the only species on earth that loves death but calls it a crime. I think ethics makes the strange experience of existing even more like being in a David Lynch film. Ethics, naming feelings, and giving them the labels of either "good" or "bad" is really like little kids making up their own game and rules for it on the playground.
If you think about it on a cosmic scale we are little kids on a playground and we change the rules of the game if we don't like it or we cheat if we're not winning. Hell, you can even stop playing if you want but then do you really die? Spooky stuff.

 

[scout86]

. If doing shitty things doesn't make you bad and just makes you flawed you have to apply that to people like mass shooters, serial killers, and sadists too.

The difference I see is that some people would see randomly killing people as "wrong" and most serial killers think what they did "wrong" was getting caught.