What does receiving empathy feel like to you?

[DogwoodTree]

When people offer you empathy...that is, they give you a healthy, empathetic response to something you're struggling with...how does that make you feel? What happens for you on the inside?

My T and I recently uncovered a new insight into why I don't feel "connected" with people. (I'm autistic, and this has been a topic of conversation with him many times.) I went on a short vacation about a month ago, and things didn't go well. It was a scary risk for me to spend the money on that vacation, but the timing was connected to a conference I was going to already, and I decided to take the chance. But a couple of particular things about it didn't go well at all, and I was deeply disappointed and frustrated and angry at myself for having spent the money on that trip.

When I got back, my T expressed empathy and all that for my disappointment. He did all the "right" things for how he responded, and then he challenged the story I was telling myself about why I should never go on vacations again and that I had made some really stupid decisions (hindsight is 20/20) and then didn't handle my emotions well after. Clearly, my brain was making this into something worse than it really should have been. But I went on the vacation to do something I had dreamed of doing since I was a kid (30+ years of wanting this), and it didn't happen, and I was deeply disappointed, while also stressed over the money because of an income issue that arose after I paid for the trip. Anyway, my reaction seemed reasonable at the time. And my T said that made sense, considering how much I wanted to do this thing. He didn't challenge my story until after he made that point clear.

And yet, I still felt like his expressions of empathy were empty and pointless and fake, even before he challenged my thoughts about it all.

I know he's supposed to challenge the stories I tell myself. I get that, and I keep going to therapy so that he can continue doing this. I recognize I have to tolerate painful emotions while I shift my cognitions into healthier patterns. That's all well and good. What we realized, though, is that I'm missing the piece that's supposed to make this a little easier...the part about feeling validated by his empathic response before he challenges my stories.

We took some time for him to describe in detail what he felt in response to my experience, how he felt sadness and disappointment along with me. He said that for most people, knowing the other person shares their emotions about an event helps the first person to not feel so alone in it all, to know that someone cares and that their emotions are valid and acknowledged and real. But it doesn't feel like that to me at all...ever. He asked me what I did feel in response to his empathic expressions. I said it felt like he was just being nice, that he was following his training, that it didn't really mean anything and was just a way to reframe invalidation, like wrapping yucky medicine in a candy coating.

So basically, my experience with therapy all along has been...the T is saying the nice-but-empty things to try to get me to reconsider my emotions and feel differently. I kept thinking that was what was supposed to be happening, because I guess that's what it seemed the T was doing on purpose. So it must be okay, and I must be really messed up if this is so painful. There must be something wrong with me, and with my emotions, that I should change my emotions so this doesn't hurt so much.

But...we had started the conversation where I was asking what it means for someone to invalidate your emotions, and how you're supposed to handle that. And he explained that no one should be invalidating my emotions. So basically I came back around and asked him, then why does it feel like you're always trying to talk me out of what I feel? And that's when we dug in and realized I'm not getting the "empathy" part before the "challenge the story" part. He totally backed off of challenging the story around the emotions at that point, and tried to focus solely on helping me feel something comforting from his empathy. But it wasn't working. There's nothing there. It doesn't make sense to me at all. For example...why would people go to a funeral after someone dies? It seems like everyone is having their own emotions within their own, siloed ecosystem, and there's no benefit in doing that around other people. What is it people get out of being around each other when they're sad? It doesn't make sense to me. Why would his sadness about my disappointment help me feel better?

 

[Rani G2]

@DogwoodTree

Interesting Topic! Have to make some thinking about this. Have been told by a Psychiatrist few years ago that I have a narcissistic Disorder, the next one says, I have narcissistic traits, but No personality Disorder. Not sure about autism.
I Dont feel much empathy, but I can mimic empathy and I have learned to show and act so that I come across empathetic. I struggle with connection...I think I feel nothing much when people show empathy...except for my Mom and Husband.

 

[scout86]

When people offer you empathy...that is, they give you a healthy, empathetic response to something you're struggling with...how does that make you feel? What happens for you on the inside?

You almost always come up with topics that give me something new to think about!

My first reaction to this was that being offered empathy usually kind of freaks me out. It "feels" like a bad thing and like I, somehow, have to find a way to get the other person to not feel bad things.

Then I thought "that can't be right". I recently had something go kind of wrong related to work and it was bothering me. Normally, I don't talk about this kind of thing, but I shared the information with a client because I thought it would be better if she heard it from me. She took my side. (Actually spent an hour chewing the other party out.) All of this made me feel a bit less like a failure. But, that wasn't actually "empathy", was it? I think I'm going to go with "empathy scares the hell out of me."

And yet, I still felt like his expressions of empathy were empty and pointless and fake,

Do you know what led you to feel that way? I mean, he COULD have been sincere, couldn't he? Or did he really do that bad a job of expressing sincerity?

he explained that no one should be invalidating my emotions.

That might be true, but it sure doesn't mean they won't do it anyway! (I wish I had a dollar for every time I've been told that I didn't feel what I felt or that I was wrong for feeling what I felt!)

For example...why would people go to a funeral after someone dies? It seems like everyone is having their own emotions within their own, siloed ecosystem, and there's no benefit in doing that around other people. What is it people get out of being around each other when they're sad? It doesn't make sense to me. Why would his sadness about my disappointment help me feel better?

On the topic of funerals.... If I go, I go because it might mean something to the survivors that other people valued the person they lost. I go because I see it as a sign of respect. I don't think I've ever found the presence of other people to be anything other than stressful in that kind of situation. And, I guess I don't think I'd feel better if someone else felt bad that I'd been disappointed, but I DO, sometimes, find it reassuring to hear that what ever I'm feeling is ok, or acceptable, or not wrong. I'm thinking that might have a lot to do with how I was raised.

 

[somerandomguy]

I agree with the others - great topic.

He said that for most people, knowing the other person shares their emotions about an event helps the first person to not feel so alone in it all, to know that someone cares and that their emotions are valid and acknowledged and real.

I agree 100% with your T.

But it doesn't feel like that to me at all...ever.

I think this is a very common reaction among us PSTD sufferers.

I said it felt like he was just being nice, that he was following his training, that it didn't really mean anything and was just a way to reframe invalidation, like wrapping yucky medicine in a candy coating.

I have no idea if this is applicable to anyone but myself, but until I accepted that I was a good person who was not responsible for my abuse or my trauma and that I was worthy of empathy, I felt exactly like you do about people showing me empathy.

I think I needed to feel empathy for myself before I could accept it from anyone else.

 

[Eagle3]

I also have Autism Spectrum Disorder, so I totally get where you're coming from, @DogwoodTree. I find "empathy" is very difficult for me to recognize and accept from others, and I'm really not great at giving it (although I am getting better). I see it as a form of emotional manipulation for some reason, most likely PTSD-related. However, my T and I have been making some strides towards my being able to recognize and accept empathy from others. Not sure I totally grasp it, but when it comes from T, SOMETIMES I can accept it as him trying to connect with me, and I'll attempt to reciprocate or at least go with it and not try to countermand his empathic feelings. Slow going, but progress is being made. Basically, I had to choose whether to accept his explanations or not when it comes to empathic responses. Because I know this is a weak area for me, I tend to choose to take people at their word unless actions or other reasons tell me they're faking. It's making it a little easier to get along with Neurotypicals, although I may never really grasp the full concept. Empathy is definitely a tough subject!

 

[DogwoodTree]

I have no idea if this is applicable to anyone but myself, but until I accepted that I was a good person who was not responsible for my abuse or my trauma and that I was worthy of empathy, I felt exactly like you do about people showing me empathy.

I think I needed to feel empathy for myself before I could accept it from anyone else.

Wait, isn't empathy feeling the other person's feelings, temporarily? If I feel my own feelings already anyway, how can I add a layer of empathy to that?

 

[somerandomguy]

I feel like empathy for yourself involves trying to see yourself as others see you. In my case, I had to try to entertain the fact that most people actually saw me as a good person, even though I didn't.

 

[DogwoodTree]

I see it as a form of emotional manipulation for some reason, most likely PTSD-related

Yes, this is what empathy feels like to me...emotional manipulation. Refraining from empathic expressions designed to conform to social rules is actually intended as a form of honoring the other person's autonomy at times when they're capable of handling their own emotions and problems. Of course, this behavior doesn't usually come across that way to the other person, and since what I intend is to honor and respect the person, I try to translate my intent into behaviors that will be perceived the way I intend...and all that feels like emotional manipulation yet again.

At the same time, I'm always on alert for times when someone's problem seems beyond their capability to handle on their own, and I'm quick to offer help in those situations. That, to me, is also respectful.

I mean, he COULD have been sincere, couldn't he? Or did he really do that bad a job of expressing sincerity?

Yes, I believe he's sincere in what he's saying. We talked about that. I don't believe he was trying to deceive me. And yet, what he was saying just sounded empty. If someone else is having feelings, I tend towards the hyper-empathy end of the spectrum and over identify with those feelings. I've had to work on emotional boundaries so I don't take on other people's emotions. But if someone is reflecting back to me my own feelings, that's just a feedback loop. It's like a mirror reflecting a mirror. What's the point?

SOMETIMES I can accept it as him trying to connect with me, and I'll attempt to reciprocate or at least go with it and not try to countermand his empathic feelings

I don't usually argue with him about his empathic expressions. I keep playing "the game." I express gratitude for someone's empathy, even if the empathy itself is irrelevant for me and I don't actually feel grateful for it. But that's what you're supposed to do. I don't know how to not do that without being rude. At the same time, inside, I often feel angry and resentful that I have to pretend to appreciate something that I'm not even convinced that anyone actually wants. My T explained that most people truly are helped by someone showing them empathy, so maybe most people are honest in their expression of gratitude. I just thought it was the game you had to play in order to be a decent, socially responsible person.

I'll attempt to reciprocate or at least go with it and not try to countermand his empathic feelings. Slow going, but progress is being made. Basically, I had to choose whether to accept his explanations or not when it comes to empathic responses.

But doesn't that feel fake and dishonest? ...to accept his explanations instead of presenting your own? ...to "go with it" instead of creating space for your own, true feelings and perspective?

I've always just "gone with it." And it works in the sense that I'm able to mask my autism and make people think that I feel things the way most people do. But inside, I feel lost and alone and isolated, and it hurts deeply. It's not that I don't feel empathy for other people, because I very much do. I just haven't been able to receive empathy. It feels empty and pointless to me. It's almost like it highlights how much people don't understand me. They're pointing out such a small piece of the picture, usually an insignificant piece. Or maybe, if they do hit on what really matters, the words just don't do it justice. I end up feeling even more alone from their expressions of empathy.

I go because I see it as a sign of respect. I don't think I've ever found the presence of other people to be anything other than stressful in that kind of situation. And, I guess I don't think I'd feel better if someone else felt bad that I'd been disappointed, but I DO, sometimes, find it reassuring to hear that what ever I'm feeling is ok, or acceptable, or not wrong. I'm thinking that might have a lot to do with how I was raised.

Right...I don't feel "better" knowing that someone else feels "worse" because of my having shared something about myself. There are so many parts of my internal experience that I pointedly do not share with other people, especially those I'm close to, because I don't want to make them feel bad. My T and I talked about how I experience other people's emotions as being invasive, and because I care about other people, I don't want to cause that kind of suffering for them by inflicting my emotions on them. My T said most feel honored when someone shares their emotions with them, not invaded. So my experience apparently is very different than most people's. But it still feels sadistic to share my emotions with other people.

As for funerals, I occasionally go if it's one I think people will be hurt and offended if I don't go. But it seems like such a waste, like people are doing something so fruitless when dealing with such great pain and loss. I can't quite imagine how it would be helpful to the people who lost their loved one.

 

[Eagle3]

The reason I "go with it" is because I realize that my brain is wired differently and I need to make accommodations in order to make connections with others. I'm tired of being alone, although I realize that I may never truly FEEL connected. At this point, as my T puts it, I have to find my own way of connecting while giving the other person what they need to feel connected. Yes, I'm acting, but I'm honoring them enough to TRY to connect on their level. Anyone who matters knows that I'm acting, or having to do this on a cognitive level instead of the instinct they seem to function on. I'm totally open about my different neurology (usually), so the fact I'm making an effort to reach others is often greatly appreciated. It doesn't mean I'm successful, but at least I try. Growth means having to do something different to achieve desired results, even if it does seem manipulative...my T harps on the fact that as long as people KNOW its an act, its not manipulative.

 

[DogwoodTree]

The reason I "go with it" is because I realize that my brain is wired differently and I need to make accommodations in order to make connections with others. I'm tired of being alone, although I realize that I may never truly FEEL connected. At this point, as my T puts it, I have to find my own way of connecting while giving the other person what they need to feel connected. Yes, I'm acting, but I'm honoring them enough to TRY to connect on their level.

A few years ago, just after I figured out I'm autistic, I shared this information with an older guy at church who had kind of taken me under his wing and was teaching me how to play guitar. He basically said, "Well I feel connected to you, so it's not really a problem." Which totally invalidated all of the pain I was feeling over feeling so isolated internally from people. So now when my T says he feels connected to me, or when he talks about me doing what it takes so others feel connected to me, I feel like he's saying that, so long as everyone else feels good about the relationship, it doesn't really matter how horribly alone and isolated I feel inside. Since there's nothing anyone can do about my feelings, I just have to live with it and do what I can to protect others from feeling pain in our relationship.

I'm sure he doesn't intend it to be one-sided, and he's said as much. But I can't yet hear it any other way.

And yet, I keep pretending because I don't want to hurt other people's feelings.

Anyone who matters knows that I'm acting, or having to do this on a cognitive level instead of the instinct they seem to function on. I'm totally open about my different neurology (usually), so the fact I'm making an effort to reach others is often greatly appreciated.

When I've tried to explain to people that I'm acting, they seem hurt by that. They get angry or fearful or withdrawn. My efforts aren't really appreciated. I'm expected to appear more normal and pretend it's real.

I end up compromising by revealing some eccentric-but-not-bizarre traits. It's selective authenticity.

Is it possible to receive empathy if you're only being partially authentic?

I'm tired of being alone, although I realize that I may never truly FEEL connected. ... It doesn't mean I'm successful, but at least I try.

I recognize this sense of desperation here...the willingness to do and be almost anything if that's what it takes to become acceptable to others. This has been my priority for most of my life. I guess now I'm reaching a point where I question if this is enough?

 

[Eagle3]

I guess it just depends on who you're around. I have people in my life who can sympathize with my struggles, so they try to meet me half-way, or at least tolerate my presence. My two best friends, although they have a much closer relationship with each other than they do with me, love me just the way I am, even with my emotional constipation. I'm blessed to have these people in my life.

If I come across people who can't accept and appreciate me just the way I am, then I know they are not meant to be part of my authentic life, so I don't invite them in to that part of myself. My authentic self is reserved for the people who can tolerate my oddities and accept/encourage my awkward attempts to connect. So what if I feel like the annoying kid-sibling tagging along on date night most of the time? At least the attempt to connect is being made on both sides. For me, right now, that's progress! Its a place to grow and learn from. And yes, I'm having to do some CBT on myself to change my negative and self-defeating thought processes the whole time. I realize that my way of connecting is not "normal" and I may never be capable of "normal connection". What I AM capable of doing is what I'm doing right now, and that's a good place to start. Its a process for us, one that may take a lifetime; and it involves actively changing the way we think about certain things. Good luck on your journey in this. Its tough, but worth it when you see progress.

 

[DogwoodTree]

If I come across people who can't accept and appreciate me just the way I am, then I know they are not meant to be part of my authentic life, so I don't invite them in to that part of myself. My authentic self is reserved for the people who can tolerate my oddities and accept/encourage my awkward attempts to connect.

Yeah, I haven't found people like that. People will tolerate me for a little while, then they get tired of me and move on, and that hurts more than the relationship was worth. I'm tired of trying and mostly just isolate and use my social energy to maintain a more consistent mask with work or with my husband and kids. I'm glad you've found some friends who can work with you. Maybe that means at least people are out there who are capable of this.