Others respecting you...

[Deleted member 541]

For me, it's not about dominance..... for me it's based on mutual respect, because without respect in a relationship, there is nothing...

I didn't yell, just asked a question......

 

[Mach123]

I know you didn't (yell) but the way you said it complicates the situation for me. To me what you said was wildly inappropriate. You probably don't see that. It doesn't matter. I'm trying to have a discussion about something that's very difficult, at least for me. I feel like apologizing now for speaking up but I also feel like leaving the conversation because I don't want to argue so in essence I've been triggered which is why I usually don't talk about things like this but, I'm trying.

 

[Deleted member 541]

@Mach123 Wow, you took that entirely the wrong way. But that's how you see things, skewed but your way. I won't apologize for anything I've said in this conversation, because I've said nothing wrong, and I don't see why you would owe me an apology either. Just two people voicing their own opinion, and discussing things.

 

[Mach123]

No no, thank you so much. I was thinking I probably triggered you because I was talking about how submissive I am. I need to be talking about this and we are, and I so appreciate the opportunity because I have never spoken out loud about a lot of this stuff except with the therapist. When I speak out of that place about my feelings and relating to others I just never could talk about it but that's not even right it's better to say I couldn't access it. So like if we were standing together or in a group and we were talking like this I would have just frozen. So this is good. This is why I never last on these boards lol!

 

[Tinyflame]

I'm very sorry maybe I shouldn't post because I must go, can't read all of the comments. Just to say, @PURUSHA you said (but of course said more):

I fear immensly loosing respect but then again I dont come off as weak because I can argue if necessary, but its the emotional structure which is painful...

and

Its very very hard, It does make us sick and sad. I have a slightly different strategy but I too, struggle with this. Usually, I say things, but .... after that I feel I was too aggressive, or said something unreasonable, or I might've not listend probably. People think I am outspoken and tough, but from the inner I usually feel weak and fear that I will be someday be oppressed. I absolutely hate being the one who back's off. If someone says something, I usally talk back, or I say something sarcastic but still I feel I need to win and come out of it as someone powerful.

I think it depends on 3 major things:

-how much respect you give other people, and how much you understand the human condition
-how practised you become in separating feelings of threat from actual severity of threat (includes projection, and triggers)
-how developed your communication skills are, and how tactful or diplomatic you can be.

I suppose #4 could include addressing your own feelings of inferiority or superiority, if such exist.

In work situations- well heck in all situations, I find honesty and listening, working together infinitely more peaceable & rewarding. However, sometimes other people will try to fight everything (also 'win'); sometimes the way you say something helps: 'I think we need to agree to disagree on this one, no, no thank you, my concern is (x)..', etc.

I remember someone asked once on another thread how to show respect. To me, many things flow from actually believing it, to begin with; respect, love, fear, selfishness, etc- whatever we really, really believe in our heart- has a way of seeping in to interactions with others, and not everyone will understand where things are coming from. (I dare say most are looking out for their own self interests.) So someone may interpret anxiety as anger; pressure as lording-it-over when it's based on fear; dishonesty or poor self-esteem as ego; avoidance as distaste, dislike or laziness, etc. And don't we do that to each other, as well? :(

Good luck.

 

[Rani G2]

how practised you become in separating feelings of threat from actual severity of threat (includes projection, and triggers)

Well said Junebug, thanks.
Some things to think about.

 

[Tinyflame]

Oh @PURUSHA I dare say we all do it, and ptsd and trauma make it worse I think.

Also, try to remember even when someone doesn't show you respect, and you are treating them respectfully, that is on them.

I feel the same/ angry for others when I see them abused, misunderstood or manipulated. It really bothers me. So does gossip, or lies in words or behaviours. All shouts 'Danger!!!' to my amygdala! :)

To each his or her own. My dearest friends were always mostly very direct, but also real, true, great people. A lot depends on the regard people have for one another, trustworthiness, and past actions. Also whether you put each other first, or just want your own way.

I've heard it said if you want someone to conform to what you think is right, you just want 'yourself'.

It sounds crude, but as my dad said too, 'the only thing everyone likes is a toilet'. (Yes, I was raised direct!) AT work in particular it's a sheer impossibility to please everyone. (Especially those who refuse to be pleased, or hold fast to complaining. Or even have a lack of understanding.)

The way I look at it, after my life, and doing elder as well as end of life care, and having gone through most of my family dead, I have no desire for fighting, drama, not taking responsibility for myself, others' abuse or misconceptions. Believe me, we all put our pants on one leg at a time, and life is really short. It's also true people might not remember what you said, but they'll always remember how you made them feel.

ETA, though I don't think 'winning' is the goal, some people are natural born leaders or inovators. People who think outside the box often meet resistance. (Even Einstein & Edison failed math. :laugh:)

 

[ladee]

I think I misunderstood the question... when I think of arguing, I think of people talking about politics, religion, or even sometimes how they perceived a past event.... If it is arguing to prove a point, I don't do that.... I am going to think and do what I want, so it doesn't matter to me what others think or perceive how I should do this or think that.

If someone gets aggressive with me... my first instinct is to 'fight', to protect myself, this is about when I was 14 yrs old and once again my mom was going to beat my ass for something.... and I stood up to her... I will never forget the look on her face... she understood then, that part of how to 'discipline' me was over.....

I will stand up for myself.... verbally... but sometimes, depends on what else is going on in PTSDland... I will walk away, doesn't mean it's finished... it means I was blindsided and knew I was going to take it over the top... so, self regulation, for lack of a better term... does it mean it's over... NOPE... it means I will give myself time to think, to untangle the situation, and then go back and set a firm boundary in a firm voice.... and that look I get on my face, that says, 'I aint' playin'...I know my body launguae presents confident because I feel it....

Nothing is written in stone that we have to do something in the heat of the moment.... with me taking the time to untangle the past from the present, taking the time to understand my own feelings about things... it's a fairly quick process now ... I then will go back a day or two later, and say, Oh by the way..... don't raise your voice to me. And that's it... I don't explain, they know what I am talking about, they don't have to apologize or explain...not interested usually... If it is someone I care about, hopefully that opens a space for conversation instead of arguing...

Being the'scapegoat' most of my life, of course starting in childhood, it is still deeply ingrained in me to go thru the old stuff in my head and heart.... and not speak up... and there are people who will put you in a double bind if you allow any more words to be exchanged...that is when I walk away... I've stated my position, set my boundary, not interested in taking it any further....

I had a bad emotional flashback at work a while back... so bad I was hitting my legs... I haven't done that in YEARS... what I realized is , I am not constantly vigilant anymore... which is a good thing... but also realized that I do have to find balance on when to pay attention . I had a lot going on with my son at the time, and I was distracted.... so he 'got' me.... I did go back a few days later, and say that if he had a problem with the way I was doing things, to please speak to me about it, and not humiliate me or shame me... that didn't go over very well, at least on his end... he is not used to people standing up to his passive aggressive crap.....He tried to get all defensive and gaslight, and I excused myself saying I had work to do.....

I use sooooo many words to get to what I am trying to say... it is still hard for me to verbalize a process I go thru to get from point A to point B...and none of the above may have made any sense... so, guess, just ask me to clarify... I'll keep it simple..

In other words, I won't debate or argue, but also will not allow anyone to talk down to me, or verbally abuse me.. it may take me time to get it straight in my head, but I will go back and say something... set a boundary...

One of my favorite things to say to someone who insists on arguing.... 'You win'... in my world , it doesn't matter... so nothing is lost by me saying that... I'm going to hit post reply now, as I have confused myself...:O_o::laugh:

 

[Rani G2]

@ladee

I PM' ed you ok.

I am in a smewhat close to loosing -touch-with-reality state. Thank you all for your advices.

The anxiety is high, I overthink, I make up fantasies about what could happen. What if I have done something terrible at work? What is someone criticises me? What if my mother dies? Ruminating 100% full cycle. Hard to get my feet on the ground.

Its just stress overboard....

 

[Mach123]

Trying to put feelings into words I think. Look at the length of the posts. Amongst the men, you have to be on guard always. If you let some guy walk up to you and say blah blah blah and you don't do anything about it then you're his (insert vulgar slang for female dog here). I'm sure this is true with women also.

You don't have always to be violent in fact violence is always the last resort but you have to be able to reply and show you'll be violent if you have to. You have to be able to save face. If you just walk away you'll lose respect.

So although there are plenty of people who are really not challenging anyone and are just friendly. This situation comes up constantly and it's how you get judged to a certain extent it's how people find out "what you're made of." If you have ptsd and you have a (possom response I don't know what it's called) or you are submissive (same thing) and so you can't "mount a proper defence" it's pretty difficult.