Gs172003
Diamond Member
It really bothers me that they did something so scary and humiliating to a child and didn't explain what it was or how to make it easier.
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The action of restraining appears to increase the chances of developing ptsd.
Peter Levine, who developed somatic experiencing as an approach to therapy, observed that wild animals that's lives are threatened daily, don't develop post trauma stress effects, but cage those a animals, and it is all too easy to induce post trauma problems.
His reasoning is that if the fight or flight response is prevented, then the problems are more likely to occur.
There's a link to a podcast where he discusses it, at this site Peter Levine, PhD - The Trauma Therapist Project
Bessel van der Kolk, again points to the disproportionately high incidence of PTSD in residents of New Orleans after hurricane Katrina, when people were cooped up for several days under a curfew enforced at gunpoint
And contrasts that with the surprisingly low incidence of post trauma problems in the residents of new York after 911, who were free to move around, gather together, talk to each other about their experiences of that day.
Peter Levine, who developed somatic experiencing as an approach to therapy, observed that wild animals that's lives are threatened daily, don't develop post trauma stress effects, but cage those a animals, and it is all too easy to induce post trauma problems.
His reasoning is that if the fight or flight response is prevented, then the problems are more likely to occur.
There's a link to a podcast where he discusses it, at this site Peter Levine, PhD - The Trauma Therapist Project
Bessel van der Kolk, again points to the disproportionately high incidence of PTSD in residents of New Orleans after hurricane Katrina, when people were cooped up for several days under a curfew enforced at gunpoint
And contrasts that with the surprisingly low incidence of post trauma problems in the residents of new York after 911, who were free to move around, gather together, talk to each other about their experiences of that day.
Yes, because there is a indescribable amount of helplessness/hopelessness that goes with being restrained. One literally has to give up their will to protect themselves or even to live. I am certain the operation I had programmed me to completely freeze body wise and manically try to figure out how to get to safe mentally when I drop into these states of mine. The fact that these assholes were doctors had absolutely no soothing effect on me. I was absolutely victimized through the procedure. No question about it.
There's some pretty shocking delusional and magical thinking which goes on. The idea that the ritual of spending x years at medical school, and the talismen of a brass plaque on the door and framed certificate on the wall (and graduation photo on their mothers sideboards) is going to change the outcome...
Just remind me who in the room is supposed to have the mental problems...
:hug::hug::hug: to op and Shimmerz
Ps, I'm not sure whether I was simply physically restrained or given muscle relaxant. There's also something about my mouth stuffed full of somthing like I've tried to chew a mouthful of plastic.
Something came up in a conversation with a male friend, similar age to us. When he was about 7, his brother had been taken to the doctors, on the return my friend was shown the fresh mutilation of his brother'so penis and it was explained to him, then he was asked if he'd like to have it done to him. He said It had freaked him out for weeks.
I haven't got the whole story about the effects on the two of them, and I'm not going to push.
The brother killed himself recently. By very drastic and probably terrifyingly painful means. I don't know yet if there's a long term connection.
littleoc
VIP Member
I would just like to point out that the definition of PTSD does actually include a medical aspect.
Vaccines aren't traumatic, unless they threaten your safety, free will, or life.
But even if you turn out to be allergic to vaccines, unless you are held down and forced to take one knowing your life is on danger, you probably won't develop complications through PTSD.
Vaccines aren't traumatic, unless they threaten your safety, free will, or life.
But even if you turn out to be allergic to vaccines, unless you are held down and forced to take one knowing your life is on danger, you probably won't develop complications through PTSD.
Gs172003
Diamond Member
It doesn't have to be life threatening either.
I posted this not too long ago. This man helped define the PTSD diagnosis.
You tube video explaining ptsd and cptsd
It must be an old video because he explains cptsd like it's never been heard of
I posted this not too long ago. This man helped define the PTSD diagnosis.
You tube video explaining ptsd and cptsd
It must be an old video because he explains cptsd like it's never been heard of
Gs172003
Diamond Member
Well I should say for things of a sexual nature it doesn't have to be.
Hi Littloc
I think that you are reading a little too much into the DSM's definition
The critical point is that the parts of the brain which deal with fear (the amygdala ) pick up that the individual is in a potentially life threatening situation
The amygdala is a small and highly optimised structure, it does pattern recognition really quickly, ever felt the hairs stand up on the basis know of your neck before you even realise that you've seen a piece of patterned rope that looks vaguely like a snake?
That's your amygdala at work. It's incredibly fast, but it is neither verbal nor is it very bright
It's not going to go and spend an afternoon checking whether being held down a deposit your body being forcibly penetrated is actually life threatening.
One of the things about vaccinations,
A pre verbal child isn't going to understand what's happening
For a child that has already suffered a bunch of lesser stressors, that experience might be the straw that breaks the already overloaded camel's back. We've heard of children retreating into "autism" following vaccination. Perhaps there is a link there?
On the subject of links, I hope that this one works. It's a thread about the 6 fs of dissociation, started by @shimmerz
IMO the paper that's linked is well worth reading
Dissociation 6f's (drop Attacks/catatonia)
<mod edit to fix link>
I think that you are reading a little too much into the DSM's definition
The critical point is that the parts of the brain which deal with fear (the amygdala ) pick up that the individual is in a potentially life threatening situation
The amygdala is a small and highly optimised structure, it does pattern recognition really quickly, ever felt the hairs stand up on the basis know of your neck before you even realise that you've seen a piece of patterned rope that looks vaguely like a snake?
That's your amygdala at work. It's incredibly fast, but it is neither verbal nor is it very bright
It's not going to go and spend an afternoon checking whether being held down a deposit your body being forcibly penetrated is actually life threatening.
One of the things about vaccinations,
A pre verbal child isn't going to understand what's happening
For a child that has already suffered a bunch of lesser stressors, that experience might be the straw that breaks the already overloaded camel's back. We've heard of children retreating into "autism" following vaccination. Perhaps there is a link there?
On the subject of links, I hope that this one works. It's a thread about the 6 fs of dissociation, started by @shimmerz
IMO the paper that's linked is well worth reading
Dissociation 6f's (drop Attacks/catatonia)
<mod edit to fix link>
Last edited by a moderator:
Gs172003
Diamond Member
Your snake reference...I will never get over the fact that I jumped out of the way of a Copperhead strike before I even saw the snake a couple summers ago. I still don't get that one . I saw it after I jumped and got out if it's way.
Is that related to what you said?
Yes, absolutely
your limbic brain, It's the lower part of the brain and it consist of structures we share with reptiles, is incredibly fast.
It interprets incoming data and scans for signs of danger
If it detects a pattern that it associates with danger, it can take over from the Much slower conscious part of the brain, and move you
It can also switch the conscious part of your brain off. It gets described on the forum here as an amygdala hijack
Your inner lizard jumps into the driving seat and takes you on a joyride.
It's the amygdala's interpretation of whats going on that is important, rather than the sense of entitlement, or rituals undergone on the part of the abuser, in determining whether post trauma problems are likely to develop.
The amygdala develops very early, it is fully formed and fully active for the whole of the final trimester of gestation.
Until very recently (and in some places and some disciplines it'seems still believed to be true) it was assumed of the basis of some deeply flawed reasoning by Descarte, that newly born infants couldn't feel pain.
On the basis of that, even major surgery was carried out without anesthesia or pain control.
Add in the assumption, still current in some barbaric cultures, that human males are born in need of immediate surgery... yeah, f*cked up within a week of birth :tdown:
your limbic brain, It's the lower part of the brain and it consist of structures we share with reptiles, is incredibly fast.
It interprets incoming data and scans for signs of danger
If it detects a pattern that it associates with danger, it can take over from the Much slower conscious part of the brain, and move you
It can also switch the conscious part of your brain off. It gets described on the forum here as an amygdala hijack
Your inner lizard jumps into the driving seat and takes you on a joyride.
It's the amygdala's interpretation of whats going on that is important, rather than the sense of entitlement, or rituals undergone on the part of the abuser, in determining whether post trauma problems are likely to develop.
The amygdala develops very early, it is fully formed and fully active for the whole of the final trimester of gestation.
Until very recently (and in some places and some disciplines it'seems still believed to be true) it was assumed of the basis of some deeply flawed reasoning by Descarte, that newly born infants couldn't feel pain.
On the basis of that, even major surgery was carried out without anesthesia or pain control.
Add in the assumption, still current in some barbaric cultures, that human males are born in need of immediate surgery... yeah, f*cked up within a week of birth :tdown:
Gs172003
Diamond Member
Thanks that makes sense
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