“betrayal from mother” and blame?

[barefoot]

My therapist has recently brought up the idea of “betrayal from mother”, which has confused me. I’ve had very mixed feelings come up about it and I’m finding it quite challenging, emotionally.

We talked more about it yesterday. I said the word betrayal sounds too strong and very harsh and that it makes me want to defend my mum because she is not a bad person or a bad mum and she has, as far as I know, always done her best to care for me and I have always felt loved.

My T agreed that betrayal is a strong word and that, in this context, it means something more along the lines of a failing in a certain area/situation...that something was less than ideal.

I then mentioned something about a key trauma from my childhood and said that it feels really unfair to blame my mum for what happened. Because, although if my mum had done some things differently (eg, spoken up, asked questions, trusted her gut, made us leave) what happened wouldn’t have happened, it feels really, really unfair to blame her for what then happened. Because it wasn’t her fault.

My therapist said it isn’t about blaming her. That this isn’t about blaming her.

And that’s sort of blown my mind. Because I don’t understand the difference.

How is it possible to think/feel that someone has failed and been less than ideal (and, as a consequence in that scenario, I was abused) while not in any way blaming them, holding them responsible or feeling that it was their fault?

Feeling really teary today - a mixture of sadness and anger, I think, but I can’t really make sense of it.

Can anyone shed any light? How is this not about blaming?

 

[ILoveLife]

The way I see it, it's about accepting things that happened that could've been avoided with different choices, but happened anyway.
It's not blaming to put the responsibility of those choices in the right place instead of feeling that weight on our shoulders.
Accepting that they happened without distorted thinking of misplacing responsibilities.

Does this make sense to you?

 

[blackemerald1]

I'd suggest this...It is not necessary to use the terms betrayal or blame in regard to your mother because..

A consequence of a decision or choice by your mother led to some unforeseen abuse and trauma you suffered?

I'm assuming she did not know her choice/decision would result in your trauma/abuse?

If so, you can lay responsibility for the choice or decision your mother made at her feet but without assigning blame or betrayal for unforeseeable abuse that occurred afterwards.

The blame for the abuse lays with the perpetrator. Always. The abuser betrayed your mother and you.

I can get why it is difficult. I'm sorry you are feeling angry and sad about this. It is very hard when you had no control over what decisions and choices your mother made.

However ask yourself the flip side... Would she have made the same decision/choice if she knew that you would have been abused? If the answer is no.. she does not deserve the words blame/betrayal.

When you drill deeper into why she made the decisions I think you may find out she is just as human as all of us and we all make (bad?) decisions because we are human.:hug:

 

[frogthroat]

I'm struggling with this in therapy too. I think the point your T is trying to make is placing responsibility on your parents for where they failed but don't blame them for the person you are now.
Sometimes, people also have a tendency to not want to hold their parents accountable for any wrongdoing at all because that would be "disrespectful" or "ungrateful."
My mom molested my brother and I for half our lives and my dad was an abusive drunk but we both still have something to do with both of them. It's a hard call. I think it's hard to feel justified giving them accountability because no matter what they did to you they still fed, clothed, and gave shelter.
I've always been more like a peer/partner to my mom than a daughter and I didn't get along with my dad because of this. He was violent and hit her and she would play the big victim. Of, course I felt sorry for her like she wasn't a grown woman who could make her own decisions. She enjoyed the attention she got from my dad being a drunk because she liked to act like she was super mom holding it all together. Then she would take it out on us either sexually or by ignoring us basically. It's really taken some thinking to realize how messed up this all was. It was just what I knew.
I think that's the point I'm trying to make. Don't blame yourself for what your parents did or didn't do. You don't have to respect them and you don't even have to love them. It's ok. At the same time, don't carry your parents around on your back. Everyone is going to have some traits from their parents but you aren't them and you don't have to be.
My T tells me I'm stopping the cycle of abuse by getting help. I'm never going to have kids I could possibly hurt but just to make that choice is great. It's all about becoming you and letting your parents go.

 

[UnKnown-Self]

@barefoot
There is a Maya Angelo quote your post reminded me of:
Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.

Perhaps your mom did the best she could with the life experience and tools she had at the time.

As a parent we make a thousand decisions a day regarding our children that can go well or be a disaster.
My daughter experienced SA. From the day she was born it was my greatest fear. I did not go back to work until she started school. When she did, I walked her & picked her up. When that became embarrassing for her, I had to pace the porch.
Her father’s brother came to stay with us on 2 different occasions. It was the 2nd stay, when my daughter was 8 he played a new “game” with her.

I’ll skip the fallout...

Fast forward ...
My guilt, shame and self-hate/blame resulted in a deteriation of all my relationships including w/ my daughter. She in turn bonded with my niece. This led to more SA.
Did/does she blame me, in part yes... I think she still does at times.
Was I responsible... ABSOLUTELY!
I don’t know if I will ever resolve my self-hate when it comes to my failure as a mother.

To answer your question, “How is this not about blame?”

To move forward we must accept the things we cannot change.
So much easier said than done.

Blame is not moving forward, it’s staying stuck. There’s no resolution. It’s very heavy baggage that grows heavier with use and counter-productive to healing.

Your healing is about You and how you feel about You. That doesn’t mean others aren’t accountable for the terrible things that happened to you. It means You are responsible for what you do with it today.

I wish you Love

 

[barefoot]

Thanks for the replies so far, everyone.

I’m not sure that I was very clear in my OP.
The thing is, I don’t blame my mother, I don’t feel that she is responsible for what happened and I don’t feel angry with her. I mentioned feeling sad and angry today - I feel very anxious and tearful - but I think it’s anger at myself. And maybe some directed towards my T for bringing this idea into our therapy space (though I get that is misplaced as she is doing her job!)

This:

A consequence of a decision or choice by your mother led to some unforeseen abuse and trauma you suffered?

I'm assuming she did not know her choice/decision would result in your trauma/abuse?

If so, you can lay responsibility for the choice or decision your mother made at her feet but without assigning blame or betrayal for unforeseeable abuse that occurred afterwards.

Would she have made the same decision/choice if she knew that you would have been abused? If the answer is no.. she does not deserve the words blame/betrayal.

Yes...I think it was unforseeable.
Although...on the way home afterwards, my mum commented on something that she thought was odd...she said she didn’t know why the doctor had said that I had to remove a certain piece of clothing. And I didn’t say anything and we didn’t ever talk about it again.

So, I guess that is the one niggle I have...that maybe at the time she thought it was odd/felt uncomfortable about it but she ignored that - in which case, if she had trusted that instinct, spoken up, questioned the doctor, accompanied me to the examination table, got up and said we were leaving...things would have turned out very differently.
But I don’t know whether she did think that at the time and then fail to do anything. Or whether it was on reflection afterwards that she thought it was odd.

Either way, there is no doubt at all in my mind that, had she known that her not intervening would mean that I was going to be assaulted, she would have done something differently.

That said, she is weirdly reverend about doctors. It’s like she has a potent combination of feeling awe-struck by them while also feeling intimidated by them. I don’t think she feels able to advocate for herself with a doctor. So, even if something felt off with me and this doctor in this instance, maybe she wouldn’t have found it possible to advocate for me either.
But does that make what happened her responsibility?! That feels like a really harsh thing to lay on her.

Don't blame yourself for what your parents did or didn't do. You don't have to respect them and you don't even have to love them.

I’m sorry your parents behaved so appallingly towards you @frogthroat
I guess this is what I mean really...I can see why you may not respect or love your parents. They have done awful things. Mine haven’t. And that’s why I don’t think they deserved balme, anger or even taking some responsibility. They are not bad people. My mum is not a bad person or a bad mother. I don’t even know that she really made any kind of mistake here.

It's not blaming to put the responsibility of those choices in the right place instead of feeling that weight on our shoulders.

To move forward we must accept the things we cannot change.
So much easier said than done.

Blame is not moving forward, it’s staying stuck. There’s no resolution. It’s very heavy baggage that grows heavier with use and counter-productive to healing.

I think I need to ponder these ideas more. I’m still struggling to really feel the difference between putting responsibility on someone and blaming them.

@UnKnown-Self - I’m sorry about what happened to your daughter and also sorry to hear how much shame and guilt you feel as a result. I know my mum would feel devastated if she knew what happened. Which is why I’ve never told her and never will. I don’t think she deserves to feel those things (just as I don’t think you do)

 

[barefoot]

I think I’m getting confused about what I feel and what I think I’m “supposed” to feel.

Intellectually, I know I’m not “supposed” to feel anything - however I feel is however I feel.

But I don’t think I know how I feel. Or what to think.

 

[frogthroat]

I think I’m getting confused about what I feel and what I think I’m “supposed” to feel.

Inte...

I think that's because you know how you're supposed to feel. You're in some kind of denial if you don't mind me being blunt. I was too. I was even talking to my mom more when I was turning around and talking about what she did to me in therapy.
Adults know what isn't right and if something is amiss. I'm sure there's instances where they had no idea but most parents who are being parents know when something is wrong. If they let the abuse continue or act like It's out of their hands that's their cowardice and failure not yours. My mom stopped molesting me at 12 once she saw I was being penetrated by a man and did nothing to help me. She even even blamed my attitude change on being a "moody teenager."
I went through a period of mercilessly defending my parents because they had "hard lives." Like my brother and I didn't because of their complete incompetence as parents. My enlightenening moment was when I was writing on here about how my parents tried their best and only were doing what they had been taught - bullshit. Once you're an adult you have complete responsibility over what you choose to do and 100% responsibility to protect and take care of whatever life you bring into the world until it can take care of itself.
It's been so freeing to admit my parents suck and are horrible people. I still see them occasionally but I don't make excuses for them anymore.
It took a good few months for me on this forum asking the same questions over and over and doubting my feelings about my parents all accompanied by the same crying and feelings of despair.
I hope this didn't offend you but I just feel like I had to tell you this.

 

[barefoot]

@frogthroat - I’m not offended about you suggesting I’m in denial. I clearly have some confusion/conflict about what to think and how to feel about this experience.

I do however think it is offensive to my parents that you seem to be likening them to yours. You say it’s been freeing for you to admit that your parents suck and are horrible people and I get what you’re saying and I’m glad for you that you’ve got to that place and are working through your experiences. Your mother molested you and didn’t do anything when she realised a man was abusing you. Your father is a violent drunk. Based on that info alone, I think your assessment of them is fair and accurate.

My parents are not the same as yours. At all. And that isn’t my denial speaking. That’s about facts - about who they are as people and how they have behaved.

I know you are trying to help but I don’t think you are drawing a useful comparison between the parenting we both experienced.

 

[blackemerald1]

she is weirdly reverend about doctors.

Yeah I get this.^^^ I am not sure how old your mother is but my mother is the same. If the doctor said jump she'd ask how high! I think it is the era my mother was raised in. Even going to the doctor was a major family event. Bit difficult to explain. Even now she still is and whilst I have a lot of respect for some doctors I have told her lots of times that there are plenty of total jerks who are doctors. But I don't think she believes me even to this day...despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.

my mum commented on something that she thought was odd..

And I can understand this^^ too - back in the day...absolutely nobody questioned a "doctor"...they were a "trusted" profession along with...bankers :eek::rolleyes: Priests?? Need I go on?

And the niggle you feel about your mothers comment? I know I would also think 'but if only mum had said/done/ etc., it would all never have happened.' And in a perfect world you are right. But does this amount to blame or betrayal by your mother. No I don't think so.

Your mother took you to the doctor in good faith @barefoot and the fact that it ended in you being abused is completely abhorrent and I am so very sorry but now that you have described the circumstances a little more... I think your mother trusted this doctor and it was not an unrealistic trust to have at that time.

 

[shimmerz]

And that’s why I don’t think they deserved balme, anger or even taking some responsibility.

I think that your T is helping you figure out all the players in the scene. I also think that parents are 100% responsible for their children and what happens to them is a failure of them to protect you. Your mom should have asked the doctor why that piece of clothing was removed. She couldn't.

The thing is, you were betrayed. By who is the question. Mainly it was the doctor. However..... there was a betrayal in not following up when there was a question of your safety.

I betrayed my kids sometimes too. I am not perfect. But I have admitted to them that I did them wrong. That may not be overly helpful to them, but I feel I need to take on the responsibility so they don't have to.

My concern here is why you are defending your mother so fiercely. It may have something to do with a long standing pattern in the dynamics in your family life. Didn't you say something about having to defend your mother against your father's abuse? So perhaps this is a pattern (you defending her) that your T is attempting to point out to you.

Mothers and Fathers need to be adult enough to take responsibility for their shortcomings so children (adult or not) don't have to bear them. Otherwise you are playing the parental in the family and that is not your job.

 

[barefoot]

@blackemerald1 - yes, I think my mum assumes doctors are trustworthy because of their profession. And I think she’s impressed and also kind of intimidated by them because she thinks they are so clever and powerful. She goes to doctor appointments now and she often leaves their room without really understanding the half of what was discussed because she doesn’t ask questions or feel she can ask for clarification etc. So, I’ll ask her a question about something quite fundamental to do with her ailment or treatment plan or whatever and she’ll say “oh...I don’t know...I didn’t really like to ask...” So, I don’t think she is really any good at advocating for herself when she’s with a doctor.

She would have been in her early forties, I think, when I had the experience I mentioned before (it was almost 30 years ago) Maybe you’re right and things were different then.
I don’t know. I think a lot of people just nod and go along with doctors because they’re embarrassed or they just assume the doctor knows best or because they don’t want to appear stupid by asking what things mean etc.

I know she took me there in good faith and that she wouldn’t have taken me there if she’d have known what would happen. Too bad parents don’t all have a crystal ball, right? ;)

I guess, for me, the niggle is that if she suspected something was off but didn’t say anything because she felt uncomfortable about speaking up because she didn’t feel that she could/should question a doctor...intentionally or not (and I know it was not) that did lead to serious consequences for me.

But then, I didn’t do anything or say anything either. So, there’s also that.

@shimmerz - I think you’re right and that my T is helping me to figure out all the players in the scene (sorry - I can’t get the quote function to work on my iPad right now!) When I was asking her questions about this the other day she said that there are lots of components to what happened and my mother is one of them so it’s one area to unpack.

Thanks for sharing your view/experience of parental responsibility. I think your comment about my Mum - that she “couldn’t” ask the doctor about the clothing removal - is right. She actually didn’t feel able to speak up and challenge him.

So, is that the difference between me placing responsibility with someone vs blaming them?
For blame, there has to be ill intent?
If there was no ill intent but a better decision would have led to a better outcome, that means giving someone some responsibility for the outcome?

I am defending my mother (not especially fiercely though, I don’t think?) because I think it feels unfair to say that she was responsible for someone else’s abusive actions. Yes, a different choice (her challenging the doctor or saying we were leaving) might have meant I didn’t get assaulted. But it’s not like she deliberately put me in harm’s way. So, if she didn’t do it deliberately, it feels harsh and unfair to give her any responsibility for it. And she would be horrified and devastated if I told her now what he did. And I don’t think she deserves to feel horrified and devastated for something that he did. Perhaps she was naively trusting, just because of his job title. Perhaps she felt unable to speak up because she felt intimidated by the power he represented to her. But, as I said before, I don’t even know whether she had that question mark in her mind at the time, in the moment, or whether it was only afterwards, on reflection, that it struck her as odd.

It was frogthroat who said about defending her mother against her father’s abuse. Neither of my parents have ever been abusive - to me or to each other. So, no, I don’t have a history of having to defend her or take on a protective, parental role in that way.

This is just about what I feel is a fair or unfair thing to lay at her door step, really.
And that’s what I’m having trouble with. Because I don’t really know what is fair and reasonable.