Trans, nb, queer and intersex folks - welcome!

[Muttly]

I missed some posts that happened so this is a bit after the fact. Swift has been providing some great info.

Trans-femme people are non-binary but present in a feminine way, and are generally AMAB; they don't want to be trans-women or to be seen as women but are feminine. They usually use "she" or "they" pronouns.

Trans-masculine (trans-masc) people are the same in reverse: generally AFAB, present as masculine but identify as non-binary rather than male.

Interesting. That might depend on context? Or be one of those terms that is still evolving. I have often come across trans-masculine and trans-female, where the term was used to describe the spectrum. So, transmasculine includes AFAB masculine non-binary and transmen.

"Bottom surgery" or "lower surgery" is surgery below the waist. This can mean a hysterectomy for trans men, or removing the testicles for trans women. There's also vaginoplasty - turning the genitals into a vagina - or phalloplasty - turning the genitals into a penis, but these are very expensive and comparitively uncommon.

And that might depend on age, region, economics? I think bottom surgery can be more common in older trans individuals, where gatekeepers expected you to go through with it.

 

[Freida]

I just got the worst case of the giggles reading this because I am so very lost in the topics! Holy crap I think I'm officially old. I actually caught myself thinking -- good grief I remember when being gay was a big deal and no one wanted to talk about it.

So...am I ok with sticking with not caring what people are as long as I treat them how they act? Like, if your are obviously a guy in a dress (the beard is a dead give away) -- I'm going to tell you if your shoes don't match if you ask me? Or if you are a woman on the inside but a guy on the outside I'm probably not going to notice - which is the idea correct? That means you are achieving your goal? But I admit that if you ask me to call you "they" I'm probably going to wonder if that is because of the voices in your head before it dawns on me you are not identifying as male or female and it might make conversation a bit complicated until I catch up with how it fits in a sentence. But I am willing to learn!

I am very, very interested in the thread and all of the the different levels to this and I can't imagine how complicated it must be to actually live. I want to get it right -- it's just a lot for my poor (old??) brain to absorb. I'd love some feedback on what I can say to show support without being invasive. And what to say when I screw it all up because I know I will just in the acronyms alone! ? That also means telling me if this post is not approriate for this thead and I can move it elsewhere

Thoughts ?

Oh --- the VA of all places now has a male/fem/preferred gender box on their medical forms. I thought that was pretty amazing.

 

[Swift]

@Sweetleaf you're right, sorry :)
I'm nowhere near fully informed.
@Muttly yeah it is evolving. The trans men I know hate being called trans masc, and the trans masc people hate being called trans men, because they feel like it doesn't fit their respective identities. May not be true for everyone though. Bottom surgery is really expensive here, there aren't very many good surgeons, so it's quite rare even among the older trans folk in my community. But if you were somewhere like LA it would probably be totally different. A rough guide from my perspective only.
@Freida - dog bless you. The number one thing I wish people would do is not argue - use the name and pronouns the person gives you, and you'll be sweet. (as a queer person with a name that people spot as assumed, I get a lot of arguments. "but that's not what it says on your birth certificate" is common, to which I reply that my birth certificate says 5 pounds and 7 inches tall, things change, buddy). Curiosity is fine, but you should be asking Google, not the literal human you're talking to at the time. A lot of people ask about surgical status, sex lives and genitalia as their first question when they learn someone's trans. I know you wouldn't do this, but that's really the no 1 thing to avoid.

 

[bellbird]

to which I reply that my birth certificate says 5 pounds and 7 inches tall, things change, buddy

Omg I love this.

 

[Freida]

How irritating that people would argue with you! Ugh!
And bout that other stuff?? Ummm nope.don't wanna know nuthing!!! Ouch!!

 

[Muttly]

@Swift Yeah, I certainly wasn't trying to argue. I just wanted to through out another perspective. I think I've heard "transmasculine" used as a catch all category. I probably wouldn't jump for joy if someone called me transmasculine. I know a very old man who would attend this group of trans folk. Everyone would go around saying mtf or ftm or things like that, and then he would quiietly say "I'm a man". I love that and sort of hope I get to that point someday.

Also, I was having troubles parsing your post. So, I know fewer transmen/masculine folks who have had bottom surgery. If you are including mtf,, I know quite a bit more and they all mostly went to Taiwan.

And just as a stupid whinge, I don't fully pass and recently have been getting misgendered a lot and I hate hate hate it.

@Freida First of all you are awesome. Also, oh yes, people do indeed argue about a variety of things relating to this. And as far as asking about surgery, it's a super common question trans folk get. That is not rare at all. Recently I saw a couple different new doctors. First time was for a sinus infection the next time was for an allergic reaction to antibiotics. Even though it had nothing to do with the reason I was there, both doctors felt the need to question me about whether I had had "the surgery". I live out in the hicks and there's just not a lot of exposure to trans folk. So both doctors seem to expect me to educate them on trans issues. Not ok. And that's happend before.

As far as the VA goes. You'd probably be surprised how many trans people join the military. Ok I am making a *huge generalization*. For mtf folks, sometimes joining is a way to over compensate. Like if they do something that is often seen as super masculine, they can deny the fact they are trans. For ftm, it can be an opportunity to be more masculine. And you add in that trans folk may be desparate to get out of their family or town, because of discrimination, and it gives them a way out.

 

[mumstheword]

If I feel like a bit of an effeminate man but I have a very feminine body and am very much a mum, plus I am very much in love with a man, does that mean I'm a little bit of a gay man in a women's body? Also I am so not into females, sexually, that, if I ever watch porn, the only porn I like is gay man porn. I've been sexual with women, but only totally dissociated, when I was much younger and more unwell. I usually feel more comfortable around men, I usually find them way more interesting and safer and I have gay friends of both sexes . Maybe I'm dissociated from my "male" part(s?) but I really don't relate to most women, most of the time. I'm defiantly biologically female though, I've been pregnant 10 times and have seven people who came out of my vagina.So, yeah, I just like to be called a women, but don't call me "cis" I don't like that term.

 

[Sweetleaf]

And that might depend on age, region, economics? I think bottom surgery can be more common in older trans individuals, where gatekeepers expected you to go through with it.

This. Region is pretty important. In Canada and also many European countries, and I imagine more countries than just that, bottom surgery is often covered by the government, though one must generally go through quite a process to get it. A lot of gatekeeping, bureaucracy, etc.

Health coverage can also cover it, in places such as the US, with the right insurance.

Also generally speaking, one can find a doc willing to perform a hysterectomy or orchiectomy if other medical issues are present, even if the standard treatment for most people wouldn't be removal of reproductive organs. This can get insurance to cover it, depending. Just takes a doctor willing to work with you on that sort of thing.

 

[Sweetleaf]

but don't call me "cis" I don't like that term.

Maybe you already know this - but since this came up I felt like explaining at least why cis people are called cis. Nothing wrong with not liking a term. There are all sorts of terms I don't like lol.


Cis is the opposite of "trans" in the Latin language. It's a simple way to refer to people who identify as the gender of their birth sex, which is likely at least part of why it was used, and part of why it caught on. Also linguistically, it makes sense.

So for example, back in the times of the Roman republic, there were the regions of cisalpine Gaul, and transalpine Gaul. Transalpine Gaul refers to the regions beyond the alps (the area of modern day France, pretty much). Cisalpine Gaul refers to the region ahead of and including the alps, from the Romans' point of view.

I had a minor in history and my major was language, so this is like, a rare opportunity for me to nerd out on something. Hahaha.

 

[bellbird]

a rare opportunity for me to nerd out on something

There are also cis- and trans-acting elements in Genetics ;) same principle.

 

[Freida]

So if I was born female, and I identify as female I'm cis?? Because others who identify as female may not have been born into a female body right?? But its not a term I should necessarily use because it could be offensive.. Ok - so can I just say, female? Or do I say female born as female?
wow -- Y'all hurt my head but this is conversation is fascinating. I had no clue how complex this is and it really gives me insight into the struggles this community must face every day -- when even the language to define yourself is so ...not difficult but maybe intricate is the word I want?

 

[bellbird]

So if I was born female, and I identify as female I'm cis??

As far as I'm aware - yep.

because it could be offensive

I don't *think* it's offensive - merely just a statement of how you identify//live your life//what/who you are/etc. As is the case with the term trans.

Ok - so can I just say, female? Or do I say female born as female?

Either works, I suppose :) depends how "intricate" you are wanting to be with your description, as you put it :)