Sexual Assault Unsure how to define this - 2 years of um coerced sex

[Ronin]

I don't understand how people don't get that adults can be coerced too.

May be bit of that belief aside of some types of disabilities and age, adults are believed to be capable of deciding everything on their own, so the assumption is refusing, once, should be enough.

... Because, yeah, those sorts of rules work in the normal decent world.
Where everyone is reasonable, good willing, agreeable, and either essentially harmless or a good people.

Is not even that assumption that is wrong, on its own...
It just doesnt work applied to abuse and trauma, but to normal & healthy.

 

[Sideways]

It's that I don't understand how people don't get that adults can be coerced too.

Okay. So, I think maybe you’ve projected an issue that you’re having into a thread where it isn’t really appropriate.

Because children are more vulnerable than adults, in a lot of ways. The OP was a teen, and is struggling to accept the realities of that.

Your completely seperate issue, with why people minimise issues relating to adults? IMO, that belongs in an entirely different thread.

ETA Stepping out, no longer helpful here. Supporting you on your journey @Chris-duck

 

[Ronin]

And I don't think I was coerced? Like nobody ever tried to convince me?

I get this gets confusing, no worries.

Though to this, you said it right in the opening post:

And it hasn't really bugged me that I can't define it until now cos I was just like "meh yah. Bunch of non consensual sex with a bunch of dudes". But my last T didn't really get it. She got individual times, but didn't get the surrounding weirdness.

Underlines mine.
You named it as non consentual, & it left you feeling a lot of grey areas yeeears after.
(Not even starting how they had all sorts of advantage over you by default, that could make (non) consenting tricky, even with best intentions.)

Edited to add: ... So you were a teen in a foreign country dealing with a career criminal and his coward buddies...? Like hell you could have consented to that. Just because a kid cannot.

 

[Chris-duck]

May be bit of that belief aside of some types of disabilities and age, adults are believed to be capable of deciding everything on their own

Yeah. I mean it's fair to say I've definitely argued that I have been #basicallyanadult as a 14yo+ ? but yeah. Things are easier to navigate once you have legal responsibility for yourself and have the at-least-theoretical ability to make decisions. Like at 19 I could have left England without consulting anybody and eventually at 21 I did leave England (adding to the um, earlier woulda been better, gawd Chrissy feelz). At 14, I theoretically still coulda gone wherever, but if I'd been caught id have been taken home. Shit *is* easier to navigate from 16+ (UK laws anyway). Doesn't mean shit can't happen to adults and other factors obv apply, but being over 16 takes away one big factor, even ignoring the dependence on adults that kids are meant to have.

The OP was a teen, and is struggling to accept the realities of that.

*cough*19isanadult*cough* ;)

You named it as non consentual, & it left you feeling a lot of grey areas yeeears after.

Yeah. I guess it's one of the few weird experiences of my life where I'm clear on the consent thing. Wasn't coerced (cos to me coercing means being forced to agree somehow by threat or whatever). Like I know I didn't consent. That part isn't a grey area for me, the grey area is more, wtf was going on for me to end up in that fight so much with people I'd not even met before who knew me.

 

[Chris-duck]

Edited to add: ... So you were a teen in a foreign country dealing with a career criminal and his coward buddies...? Like hell you could have consented to that. Just because a kid cannot.

I mean I'm Scottish, so not exactly a foreign country. Still in UK.
I dunno if it was a career criminal? Like I guess I saw no evidence of that? I dunno. I didn't bother looking, nor did I speak the language, but I dunno.

And I won't argue the kid thing again, cos heh.

 

[Gs172003]

May be bit of that belief aside of some types of disabilities and age, adults are believed to be capable of deciding everything on their own, so the assumption is refusing, once, should be enough.

... Because, yeah, those sorts of rules work in the normal decent world.
Where everyone is reasonable, good willing, agreeable, and either essentially harmless or a good people.

Is not even that assumption that is wrong, on its own...
It just doesnt work applied to abuse and trauma, but to normal & healthy.

Agreed.

Yeah. Sorry. I dunno. Assume I know nothing until further notice ?

Heh.. :shifty: I mean I had an address until 19. Which is basically not a teen ;)

I can only speak for me. But it's not that I don't think adults can be coerced. Humans are human and can be coerced and manipulated. When I said it's different for 13 yos Vs 19yos I meant that it just is, imo. And I don't think I was coerced? Like nobody ever tried to convince me? I dunno if that makes it better or worse. It just wasn't that subtle I guess.

Understood.

 

[Chris-duck]

Thanks @Zoogal

 

[Gs172003]

Thanks @Zoogal

You're welcome.

 

[Ronin]

Yeah. I mean it's fair to say I've definitely argued that I have been #basicallyanadult as a 14yo+ ?

:D I said that at nine too. Guess we were both teeny wrong on that one?

Things are easier to navigate

But easier does not mean *easy*. Or risk less.

*cough*19isanadult*cough*

Nineteen...

& we could talk about how even some laws may define it as age close to teen, devt psychology on that one & how you would need a good few years yet to really be ready for adult decisions, how age is not magical, and if you are in the US, still cannot drink that time, good rest of the world, no adult till 30, not just socially, Saudi Arabia I am not even touching, and... yes.

Can we go with Fairly fresh out of teens / veeery young & vulnerable adult, here, if anything?

Wasn't coerced

.... Ever thought of situations themselves not being safe and companies you cant say no to most things being enough (enough of a threat.)?

Like being a woman surrounded by bunch of douches is itself bad enough.
Bad situation all around, they did not need extra more coercion.

not exactly a foreign country. Still in UK.

Ok. But different government, here and there, so still not exactly home ground.

I dunno if it was a career criminal?

40s, already trafficking women for a while, multi IDs (whacha need them for, if ya aint a multi states citizen, diplomat, traveler, govt or affiliated, etc), has an organised & hierarchical circle of aid/clients, etc.... Going just from what you said about A.

 

[Chris-duck]

:D I said that at nine too. Guess we were both teeny wrong on that one?

Heh yeah. Maybe, fair.

But easier does not mean *easy*. Or risk less

No. I know. I didn't mean leaving trauma shit was easy as an adult. Literally just meant the things I said, some variables don't apply to legally-adults.

Can we go with Fairly fresh out of teens / veeery young & vulnerable adult, here, if anything?

Eh. Deal? That's fair I guess.

40s, already trafficking women for a while, multi IDs (whacha need them for, if ya aint a multi states citizen, diplomat, traveler, govt or affiliated, etc), has an organised & hierarchical circle of aid/clients, etc.... Going just from what you said about A.

Okay yeah. I don't really know why this argument breaks my brain so much. Like it doesn't really change what happened. I think cos I don't have solid answers and some other reasons I guess

 

[blackemerald1]

I think the law applies different penalties to offences against children of varying ages so that's fair. However, the law also attempts to deal with the vulnerabilities of victims too.

As was suggested, developmentally you may not have had the ability to understand or prevent yourself from being coerced into entering or remaining in that kind of situation.

And power is the pivotal word here really. I suggest if you have already had your power removed from you or not ever been able to exercise power over your own body as a child, it's going to take a big change to assist you to understand that following a birthday that moves you from being legally a child, to an adult, that you then did have power and could exercise it to protect yourself from those criminals. It's one of the reasons criminals in the area of trafficking humans focus on the young and the vulnerable... either will suit their purposes.

 

[Freida]

Ok -- lets try it this way.

You were 19. I was 20. We were both living away from our "homes." We both were caught up in a situation that we couldn't escape. Neither of us were locked up ALL THE TIME. But we were both in situations where we were in locked rooms and horrible things happened. Then we left, then we came back. And we never said a word about what happened in those rooms

Why?

If I'm to believe my T it was self-preservation. Speaking about what was happening, fighting back, making a fuss, not being where "we were supposed to be" came with a level of threat that couldn't be faced. There was no other option. Oh sure, you can say you could have jumped a train and gone to paris. Sure. But what would you have done when you got there? No job, no money, no home, no skills. And no - you don't get to say you would have figured it out. The reality is that you had no good options.

So you stayed in a situation that was horrible -- because it was the least worst option. Until it became your normal. Just like every other abused person out there. Why do dv victims stay, sometimes for years? Because it's their normal. Those assholes had you so twisted around that you believed you were NOT being forced into having sex and that you were at fault. And the guys talking a foreign language but they weren't selling you? Oh hun. really? Of course you didn't see money exchanging hands. You were in a locked room!

If it wasn't about the money then it was about the power. That is what rape/trafficking/sex assault is - power. Those guys knew you didn't have a choice. And they had sex with you anyway. That's called rape. You didn't consent. You complied. Big difference.

And ya -- I know I get the hypocrite trophy because I'm not any further ahead on this than you are! ? :laugh: But it's starting to make sense. And that sucks. so very much. Because it means we have to accept the victim label. Neither of us want that. But. there ya go.