Sexual Assault Unsure how to define this - 2 years of um coerced sex

[The Albatross]

Off topic... I have totally blocked the organizational affiliation of the worst group who though approaching me on various occasions with the "permission" of the original clique I managed to successfully evade. I was also able to retrieve two more though as a bystander on the next base. Lucid dreamed my way through it with some stress but the worst group is totally walled off.

 

[The Albatross]

P.S. So far as not being sure you made a smart decision (post #55)… it's of no consequence NOW. It was the decision you made at that time... it's not a hard stretch to see that it was likely the best decision in a bad situation you made for yourself at that time. That's how I flip that one.

 

[The Albatross]

@blackemerald1 - had to edit that post #60... my head was all over the place.

 

[The Albatross]

My own experience with this topic occurred from late 1979 - early 1981. I think outside of my shrink this is probably the most candid discussion I've had on it.

 

[The Albatross]

Will have to definitely do rereads on this thread til it doesn't give me a blinding f'ing headache. Beer for "breakfast" after coffee. Ack. A bit surprised at the somatic reaction considering it's been about 40 years.

 

[Chris-duck]

That choice was illusory to begin with, and that you had to choose anything is skewing the scales hard... Wrong of them, altogether, you could not have done better, because you were not doing wrong.

Yeah, I kind of know. I know why I made the choices I did, whether ones on the spot or with time to think through. I'm not even totally sure that I'd make different choices now. I know, if I'm feeling rational :p , that shit was happening regardless of any choices I made.
I just really want to argue about how I totally did have control over some aspects and I'm not sure I helped make life easy for anyone. I get that's decisions I can live with, just a lot of "what if"s.

That doesnt sound to me as someone easily confused.
That sounds like someone who keeps their stories straight, extremely well.

Thanks.

Ugh... had to warm up in the batter's box to hang in on this topic. Here to tell ya though it's a good thing there was only a couple beers in the house and I decided not to leave the house yesterday so as to not have an opportunity to buy more booze

Heh, yeah. I get it. Only alcohol I have is champagne, which seems like a very expensive way to find my thoughts here. So it's just taking me an embarrassing amount of time to type instead.

Eh... nope... different ball game, different dynamics, different perp/players

Okay, fair point. I didn't really think about it by time I met guys, but I know I was confused by lots of cultural things when I first moved to England. So yeah, IME in England the people around me valued polite over honest so being f*cked over had already happened before noticing and the people around me in Scotland you could see them f*cking you over from a mile away (and they'd do it right in front of you). So yeah, I can see how I'd get deeper into something there than in Scotland before my brain would be like "huh what"

PLUS I had the extra added bonus of being under a service commitment/tour of duty where I had to bunk/live with... eat and work with em and was only at liberty to zip out on off duty hours. Believe me I tried to stay on the move and out run the f'kers. It was a 2 year cat and mouse game and I was the mouse.

Yeah, it's really shit that you, Freida and probably hundreds others were in that position and stuck in it around so many people who weren't safe to be around.

Personally my initial situation was rape no doubt about it

Yeah, same really. Initial situation for me I was at As for a couple days with door locked, I get the first and second time mixed up with one one day n one the next. But either way. Yeah. I just don't like calling it rape, my brain has about a million (totally irrational) reasons for how it "wasn't like that". Won't bore you with them cos even I know they won't stand up to scrutiny. Ugh.

I only measured them by whether anything other than touching occurred & whether I got back safe enough to get my ass to work. That was a piss poor measuring stick. Eh?

Heh yeah. I get this. I do the same.

The solid foundation being it was not something I ever consented to outside the context of a duress crime or outright sexual assault or rape.

Yeah. I didn't consent either. Just sometimes think I should have, easy life n all that. But yeah, I'd probably be more confused now if I had.

You have no evidence that this would be the case without having also made the decision to participate like the older women/gals in the group... AND you had no interest in doing that... so moot point.

I know, sorry. It's just a "would things have been easier/less violence/more predictable/whatever" if I had just decided to do that. Although I know that's not something I wanted, just another way I could have, but didn't, get control of it I guess.

it's of no consequence NOW. It was the decision you made at that time... it's not a hard stretch to see that it was likely the best decision in a bad situation you made for yourself at that time. That's how I flip that one.

Yeah, thanks.

my head was all over the place.

Doing okay?

I think outside of my shrink this is probably the most candid discussion I've had on it

Yeah, makes sense. Take it easy, yeah? I don't want my blahblah to mess with your head. I know I've quoted you and appreciate your input obv but don't feel like you can't step away if you need to.
I started this discussion and I still nope out it all the time :p so no pressure.

 

[The Albatross]

that shit was happening regardless of any choices I made.

Ding ding ding... that's the take away.

Yeah... I'll be fine, mom's up, did brunch, gonna crash for a bit now. I sort of busted down the trauma stuff in order of importance... so far as I can recollect you're pretty much the first person (though I may have missed a few over the years here) who'd ever solidly opened up the topic (on the forum)... so uncomfortable and headache but not in a bad way.

I'll shut up for a bit and watch the thread roll. But thanks for opening up the topic and I hope there's stuff in here that helps you k?

 

[Mee]

So much in this thread is difficult but I want to say i’m Impressed.

I ‘yeah,but’ as part of my process @Chris-duck . It’s as if I have to see it as something to resist or navigate to work out how to tackle it. The ‘yeah, but’ can feel off putting but I find now it’s really productive for me.

Regarding ages. This is so contentious and I am trepidatious because it’s vulnerable for me. Like many here I grew up too fast. I also think I got stuck at the pseudoadult age a bit. A sort of twisted arrested development where I was all cynic child at 6 , who still likes mermaids and unicorns in her forties. I think I see similar in other female victims with similar experiences often.
I think it’s impossible to compare my experience to another’s. But I can compare my own to my own.

 

[Chris-duck]

Ding ding ding... that's the take away.

Yeah. My brain isn't happy with that though. It's kinda like "no. There's a way you coulda stopped it. So find it!" Like I know the only choices were ones that didn't affect the outcome. So I know that essentially my decisions didn't matter, but I'm not okay with that ? it's okay, I'll get there I guess..

so far as I can recollect you're pretty much the first person (though I may have missed a few over the years here) who'd ever solidly opened up the topic (on the forum)... so uncomfortable and headache but not in a bad way.

I couldn't find any previous topics, but admittedly I had nooo idea what to search for. And yeah. I think it's been uncomfy for a few people, me included really. I dunno.

But thanks for opening up the topic and I hope there's stuff in here that helps you k?

Yeah, I think it's helpful hearing other stories and being able to put it out there and try to get my head around it. It's also weird, it's still uncomfy and I still low-key hate this thread sometimes, but not quite as much as when I first posted it. So uh, progress? :laugh:

So much in this thread is difficult but I want to say i’m Impressed.

Thanks.

It’s as if I have to see it as something to resist or navigate to work out how to tackle it. The ‘yeah, but’ can feel off putting but I find now it’s really productive for me.

Yeah. I don't think I can say shit unless I can argue it first like "yeah I get what you're saying cos blah, but this is my argument against that idea, but I get that doesn't make sense so yeah" like my brain is incapable of just being like "yup. Got it". Need to satisfy the part of my brain that is like "nope, no, nah, nuh uh, no way" before I can continue or something :laugh:

Like many here I grew up too fast.

Yeah. I think my issue is that I navigated shitty situations my whole life, so my argument is that by late teens/early20s I really should have been pretty good at it. Not extra vulnerable because of it. I know that logic is flawed, it's okay ;)

 

[Ronin]

So I know that essentially my decisions didn't matter, but I'm not okay with that ?

Ok, what about this one> They mattered. They just wouldnt have changed *their* decisions. For those were already set, or whatever they juust came up with, with the addition of making you feel like you and yours messed it for each other.

Would looking at it as your decisions, yours (like Hs) decisions VS decisions of your abusers, two sets of optics, help you any, or does that send you more into a rabbit hole?

I don't think I can say shit unless I can argue it first

All good with that, intense constructive banter is awesome.

so my argument is that by late teens/early20s I really should have been pretty good at it.

And you *were* ... you are here today.
But you also faced *different* shitty situations, those guys and their piss of an operation was yet a different set of shitty you did not have an experience with.

It was new. They also had *that* of an advantage to use.
So not like its your fault you tried your best, with an unfamiliar territory.

 

[Mee]

Chris duck, suppose you had made different decisions, and they made the situation worse? I am a big ole fawner in sexual assault situations. My opinion is my limbic system decides this because of experience of trying to make different decision and getting a worse outcome. I also think Gavin du Becker in gift of fear says good stuff about the micro calculations we aren’t making consciously but keep us as safe as possible in cruddy situations.

( NB; after my husband read the gift of fear, if I say i’m Not comfortable somewhere my husband respects that. It changed his attitude from sympathy to supportive, recognition that if I am not ‘reactive’ but uncomfortable, it’s for a reason)

 

[Chris-duck]

They mattered. They just wouldnt have changed *their* decisions. For those were already set, or whatever they juust came up with, with the addition of making you feel like you and yours messed it for each other.

Yeah. I guess that's what I'm struggling with. How much was already decided n how much did my decisions play a part in. I know, kind of, that my decisions couldn't have made an impact on their decisions, and I know I don't hold Hs decisions against her. I dunno. I just feel responsible for everything and everyone apparently.
Like I know it'd have all played out how it did anyway, cos that was pretty evident from first time onwards. I hated them from first time and I guess I hate that one lapse in judgement (meeting them first time) lead to what it did. Cos before first time I was like "uh seems weird but okay". Like I need to have had control over what happened after, cos I knew it was dodgy before it started. So that *was* my choice.

Would looking at it as your decisions, yours (like Hs) decisions VS decisions of your abusers, two sets of optics, help you any, or does that send you more into a rabbit hole?

Nah. Not further down a rabbit hole. Or even if it did, I still get it's separate. I guess I'm struggling with separating bad choices I made before knowing how bad, fight/flight type choices, and non-choices. Like they don't feel separate. Even though I remember moments I made them, and what my options were or weren't, they just kinda merge into *my choices* and even though I know that there's not really a right or wrong, and everything worked out okayish (some PTSD for me, that I had already ? and OCD for H but hey) I keep analysing it all. Like there's some magic answer that makes it all make sense. I know it's more complicated than that.

And you *were* ... you are here today.

Yeah. I'm not sure I've ever experienced anything life threatening though tbh. Even in situations where other people died, I'm not sure I ever felt like my life was at risk. Maybe I'm just cocky, heh.

But you also faced *different* shitty situations, those guys and their piss of an operation was yet a different set of shitty you did not have an experience with.

It was new. They also had *that* of an advantage to use.
So not like its your fault you tried your best, with an unfamiliar territory.

Yeah, thanks. Sorry. I'm being argumentative. But yeah, I'm still not sure how id have played it differently, so it's probably unfair to beat myself up for something that I still can't work out a solid plan of action for ten years later ?

Chris duck, suppose you had made different decisions, and they made the situation worse?

Yeah. I know. Impossible to tell I guess. My brains looking for a definite "if you had done blahblah it woulda solved everything", but I can't think of *what* that'd be. And I guess it worked out okay. Like we got out, no Biggie.