- Post starter
- #73
You need long term therapy with someone who doesn't have a conveyor belt running through her office.
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Attachment Issues
- Post starter Pencil
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Ice_Fire
VIP Member
Yep, your opinions have given me confidence to trust my instincts on this one- she wants to 'quick fix' me and taking a step back, yes it is ridiculous. Trouble is, I am terrified of bringing it up.
I don't think it will work no. In a lot of ways she's very knowledgeable and she's 'taught' me a lot. Not addressed the emotions though, feels like I'm just getting an extra Psychology lesson! Financially...hmm, difficult one. At the moment, my sessions are free...and my last T was amazing through them. But, I'm unsure if I can access counselling in the private sector, it'd basically be most of my part-time income.
Feel stuck between a rock and a hard place.
- Post starter
- #75
My response to the the 'unmet needs' issue.
Most of it :D Let me try and get this out with less chaos and more chronology:
1. I thought she was the bees' knees. I really felt safe and understood.
2. The break arrived. She sent me an email right when it started. I loved her for it. But, it contained a section on unmet needs, and I wasn't very happy with it (partly because I misunderstood what she was trying to say because I was not at that stage familiar with self-psychology theory). BUT, I thought and felt that I was beginning to understand what 'attachment' meant, as I would get on with my life, and suddenly think about her, therapy, what she said in the letter, etc. and it made me feel connected, safe, okay, and then I'd get on with my life again. It was like 'checking in' with her once an hour or so - and this happened because she was kind and sensitive enough to 'send me off' on the break with the letter to refer to.
3. First session after the break: I was so relieved to just see her and be in her presence again, but she seemed mentally absent. Right at the beginning of the session I apologised for not having made payment during the break as I was experiencing difficulties financially, due to very slow performance due to emotional upheaval. I also said that I would know later that day what the state of my finances really were. (What I did not say explicitly was that I would know later that day, or the next day, whether I had lost a contract or nor - once again due to non-performance as I could not focus properly.) Her immediate reaction was: Ok, in that case we'll have to cut back to once a week. I tried to stall, thinking that such a decision would depend on the contract, and that I would only know later the next day or the next day, but again I did not say it explicitly. I just asked if we could make that decision later. She agreed. The rest of the session made me feel disconnected from her, and it felt as if the connection I felt over the break was lost. Yet I brought up the unmet needs issue. That was when she said I had to 'befriend' it. I became upset (for reasons she now understands, and things I don't want to get into on here). She usually gave me a 5 minute warning - on that day however, she interrupted the discussion of unmet needs, and my reaction to it, by saying we had only 10 minutes left, and then went back to saying we need to cut back to once a week. I acquiesced. Then, we sat there with 8 minutes to go and nothing to say. So I left - feeling very lost and lonely and just generally crap.
4. Later that day I learnt that I had indeed lost the contract, which made me feel worse. Then my daughter's guinea pig fell off a chair and broke its back and I couldn't find a vet to put it down and I watched its suffering but couldn't bring myself to kill it and hated myself for being such a ninny. In other words, a few really upsetting things happened that day (I'll list them for you Abstract :D : broken connection, T's lack of concern over how finances were impacting me, and my feeling that she was pushing me into once a week before I really knew the state of my finances, the unmet needs issue that was not discussed properly because she wanted to return to the finances, learning that I had indeed lost the contract - and with that the realization that I I really had to cut back to once a week, as well as knowing things would generally be difficult financially, plus feeling like a failure on a professional level, the guinea pig and the knowledge that it happened because I was upset and not paying proper attention to my daughter - in other words I felt directly responsible.)
4. The next session (a week later) I could not attend because of another client's late payment - I simply did not have the money to get myself there.
In the interim I was freaking out about a number of things, including the unmet needs issue that stayed unresolved. I wondered whether therapy was not a huge waste of money and told her that via e-mail. We scheduled a session to discuss this.
5. Next session: The first thing she said was: Are you here to terminate therapy? I was a little shocked. There were three possibilities: Continue, take a break, terminate - but I thought we would discuss it and that I would base my decision on the discussion. I did not expect her to want a clear and final answer from me right at the beginning of the session. At that point I thought that I could afford therapy if I made certain sacrifices, but it no longer seemed worthwhile. I told her that I was struggling financially and she immediately agreed that we would take a break until my finances had recovered. I brought up the unmet needs issue again. She gave another response that was not satisfactory. That was the final session.
6. We exchanged a number of e-mails ( I was rude and aggressive in some of them - she was very patient, kind and understanding)and the unmet needs issue was eventually resolved.
7. She e-mailed me the account, saying she felt it was important for me to return to therapy. I no longer feel I could go back to her, although I still feel 'attached'. Besides, I now realise that I can't combine the upheaval of therapy with my role as breadwinner.
Clearer now? As I said, the issue of the unmet needs and the reasons for my feelings and reactions I won't discuss here.
- Post starter
- #76
And with my previous post I went off topic on my own thread :roflmao:
In that case, I would suggest you hang in there for the duration and get from it what you can, while you start looking for long term therapy with someone else.
- Post starter
- #77
Okay, enough speculation - let's get some clarity on the issue of what attachment really is. I'll post more definitions and descriptions in the next couple of days. If anyone finds something to clarify, please post, so that we can get past the IMHO type responses :D. I think it is important not to subscribe to someone else's highly subjective experience of what attachment means to him / her.
Attachment is a deep and enduring emotional bond that connects one person to another across time and space (Ainsworth, 1973; Bowlby, 1969).
Attachment is a deep and enduring emotional bond that connects one person to another across time and space (Ainsworth, 1973; Bowlby, 1969).
- Admin
- #78
anthony
Founder
The emotion of attachment may vary based on a persons own feelings uniquely. As long as it fits in the definition somewhere, is more apt.
- Post starter
- #79
Correction: I think it would be more valid to say that we shouldn't feel we HAVE TO subscribe to another person's subjective experience, and see it as the way it SHOULD be. In other words, I think we should start looking at the literature, and the theory on attachment, and then match our own experiences with that, and not with each other's.
Am I making more sense?
- Admin
- #80
anthony
Founder
Makes perfect sense... and I agree.
- Post starter
- #82
Investigations into?
You make therapy sound like a criminal activity :) And why won't your thoughts be helpful?
I AM okay, thanks.
fyredrift23
Bronze Member
Hi!
I'm kinda just jumping in here, but I think I may have something to offer to the discussion :unsure:
Pencil, I don't have any literal definitions to post. Attachment as a whole is super complex and deep, so there is much to be learned about it, and there are plenty of different viewpoints, beliefs, etc. from various professionals involved in the subject's evolution. I only have my personal experiences to draw from, coupled with some of the technical things I've learned about attachment (via psych books, classes, my therapist, etc.). I hope it can still be helpful, though.
As much as I love the enormous field of Psychology and find it fascinating and very beneficial to society, sometimes I think that it unnecessarily complicates things that "laypeople" would otherwise have understood just fine. Someone (forgive me, I forget who) posted that a friend of theirs they discussed attachment with hardly even noticed it was a thing. To the friend, it was so apparent that it did not even warrant overt attention, let alone a discussion. I'm not trying to knock the friend, I just mean that to her, talking about attachment was like talking about oxygen or food :laugh:
To me, attachment has to do with mutual respect and encouragement for growth and change. Dependence is what I feel like you were worried about feeling with a therapist, Pencil, and that is quite different indeed.
Like, I tend to better explain things with images or analogies, so I'll try to make one up now :) I'm pretty tired, so I may not make much sense, but here goes!
Star and Planet are friends in their first year at Cosmo University. They've been friends for years and know each other very well. Star always seemed to be more assertive and confident than Planet, however, and that fact became more apparent as the friends got older. One day, the friends are talking about what they want to major in. When asked, Planet doesn't really have a response, but learns that Star is interested in Literature. Planet asks Star's opinion on what to major in, and Star feels it's a decision that should be left up to Planet and Planet alone.
Star offers some advice based on Planet's known interests, but Star refuses to "tell" Planet what to choose. Star feels that to do so would undermine Planet and Planet's decision-making skills and desires. Star also has boundaries in the relationship, and "dominating" Planet by imposing Star's personal preferences on Planet's life would seriously violate those boundaries. Star heads off to go practice with teammates on an intramural basketball team, leaving Planet alone. Though Star does not realize this, Planet is in a panic. Planet feels very confused about selecting a major and doesn't know where to begin. Planet becomes very worried that unless Star helps with this process, Planet will remain "Undecided" and never graduate college. Planet does not have confidence that by taking various courses and being introduced to new ideas that a number of interesting majors will become apparent.
So, like, basically, Pencil, Star exhibits features of attachment, while Planet shows features of dependence.
Star seems to be much more headstrong than Planet and is quite comfortable with selecting a major without Planet's input. Star's self-awareness abilities are pretty good, for Star can determine that Literature is a potential major. Star also has well-developed skills in risk-taking and self-confidence. Literature may or may not work out for Star, but Star does not worry about that scenario. Also, were the scenario to take place, Star is confident Star has the capacity to select another major that will more appropriately meet Star's needs.
Star will not impose upon Planet's decision to select a major. Star believes that Planet is capable of doing this alone, but Star also seeks to be a source of support for Planet by knowing Planet's interests. Star wants Planet to develop mentally and emotionally, and Star feels that telling Planet what to do will seriously hinder Planet's growth process. Star also greatly respects Planet and maintains boundaries in the relationship. Star believes that Planet has the natural right to choose and live life in Planet's way.
Star does not expect Planet to "check" with Star and be sure Planet is selecting the "right" major. Star is not offended when, after offering some suggestions, Planet is still deciding. Star allows Planet to exist as a separate being capable of thinking, feeling, and deciding without any assistance from Star. What Star wants may not be what Planet wants, and Star has no desire in forcing that to be the case.
Also, Star is forming healthy relationships with others outside of Planet through the intramural team. Star is not so fearful of new experiences that it limits Star and prevents Star from "getting out there" and "living life" Star's way.
Planet, on the other hand, is displaying features totally opposite that of Star. Planet asks Star's opinion on what Planet will major in. Planet's choice in major in no way affects Star, so Star does not need to be involved in the decision-making process. However, Planet unfortunately does not feel this way. Planet is looking to Star to point Planet in the direction Planet "should" go next. When Star does not do this, Planet becomes extremely anxious. Planet feels that without Star, Planet will not be able to move forward.
Planet suffers from low self-confidence and low self-esteem that serve to make Planet believe Planet is inadequate. Planet is not very self-aware because of looking out to Star. Planet has a deep-seated fear that by doing, thinking, believing, or feeling the "wrong" thing Star will end the friendship. Planet does not believe that Star is friends with Planet because of Planet's personality. Planet is convinced Star is only looking at what Planet does, and not at who Planet is.
When Star leaves, Planet is left alone with tormenting thoughts and fears that rapidly send Planet into a panic. Planet greatly exaggerates a very negative outcome for Planet's life if Star never "tells" Planet what Planet "should" do. Planet's under-developed self-awareness skills and low self-confidence team up to create a terrifying future for Planet that Planet feels most definitely will come true without Star's "help."
Sorry if that's a bleak story, but dependence (for able-bodied, functioning adults) on another is a negative way of relating to that person. I kinda look at it as dependence sucks all the power out of the dependent and gives it to the depended upon. The dependent truly does not believe s/he can do much of anything without "guidance" from the depended upon. As demonstrated in the story, it need not be a very callous, domineering individual making another cower in fear.
Pencil, the goal of therapy is never to become dependent upon the therapist. Attachment is about you growing as a person and becoming more and more aware of and sure of yourself. It is about you being able to safely examine aspects of your life that are troubling you and effectively work towards learning how to cope with the emotions that can arise as a result. To become "attached" to a therapist really is a good thing.
I don't wanna go into theory and hypothetical situations, and I am by no means a member of the psychological community. I just know that for me, becoming "attached" to my therapist has led to me trusting him and others in my life a lot more. I've started to allow myself to be vulnerable when I'm with friends and other loved ones so that I can truly share who I am with them (like they do with me!). I'm a heck of a lot happier (weird, I know) and much less anxious when I "let myself go," as frightening as it can be. Pencil, I'm not trying to tell you what to do, I just hope that as you move forward in your life you can grow more into yourself and be happy :)
I'm kinda just jumping in here, but I think I may have something to offer to the discussion :unsure:
Pencil, I don't have any literal definitions to post. Attachment as a whole is super complex and deep, so there is much to be learned about it, and there are plenty of different viewpoints, beliefs, etc. from various professionals involved in the subject's evolution. I only have my personal experiences to draw from, coupled with some of the technical things I've learned about attachment (via psych books, classes, my therapist, etc.). I hope it can still be helpful, though.
As much as I love the enormous field of Psychology and find it fascinating and very beneficial to society, sometimes I think that it unnecessarily complicates things that "laypeople" would otherwise have understood just fine. Someone (forgive me, I forget who) posted that a friend of theirs they discussed attachment with hardly even noticed it was a thing. To the friend, it was so apparent that it did not even warrant overt attention, let alone a discussion. I'm not trying to knock the friend, I just mean that to her, talking about attachment was like talking about oxygen or food :laugh:
To me, attachment has to do with mutual respect and encouragement for growth and change. Dependence is what I feel like you were worried about feeling with a therapist, Pencil, and that is quite different indeed.
Like, I tend to better explain things with images or analogies, so I'll try to make one up now :) I'm pretty tired, so I may not make much sense, but here goes!
Star and Planet are friends in their first year at Cosmo University. They've been friends for years and know each other very well. Star always seemed to be more assertive and confident than Planet, however, and that fact became more apparent as the friends got older. One day, the friends are talking about what they want to major in. When asked, Planet doesn't really have a response, but learns that Star is interested in Literature. Planet asks Star's opinion on what to major in, and Star feels it's a decision that should be left up to Planet and Planet alone.
Star offers some advice based on Planet's known interests, but Star refuses to "tell" Planet what to choose. Star feels that to do so would undermine Planet and Planet's decision-making skills and desires. Star also has boundaries in the relationship, and "dominating" Planet by imposing Star's personal preferences on Planet's life would seriously violate those boundaries. Star heads off to go practice with teammates on an intramural basketball team, leaving Planet alone. Though Star does not realize this, Planet is in a panic. Planet feels very confused about selecting a major and doesn't know where to begin. Planet becomes very worried that unless Star helps with this process, Planet will remain "Undecided" and never graduate college. Planet does not have confidence that by taking various courses and being introduced to new ideas that a number of interesting majors will become apparent.
So, like, basically, Pencil, Star exhibits features of attachment, while Planet shows features of dependence.
Star seems to be much more headstrong than Planet and is quite comfortable with selecting a major without Planet's input. Star's self-awareness abilities are pretty good, for Star can determine that Literature is a potential major. Star also has well-developed skills in risk-taking and self-confidence. Literature may or may not work out for Star, but Star does not worry about that scenario. Also, were the scenario to take place, Star is confident Star has the capacity to select another major that will more appropriately meet Star's needs.
Star will not impose upon Planet's decision to select a major. Star believes that Planet is capable of doing this alone, but Star also seeks to be a source of support for Planet by knowing Planet's interests. Star wants Planet to develop mentally and emotionally, and Star feels that telling Planet what to do will seriously hinder Planet's growth process. Star also greatly respects Planet and maintains boundaries in the relationship. Star believes that Planet has the natural right to choose and live life in Planet's way.
Star does not expect Planet to "check" with Star and be sure Planet is selecting the "right" major. Star is not offended when, after offering some suggestions, Planet is still deciding. Star allows Planet to exist as a separate being capable of thinking, feeling, and deciding without any assistance from Star. What Star wants may not be what Planet wants, and Star has no desire in forcing that to be the case.
Also, Star is forming healthy relationships with others outside of Planet through the intramural team. Star is not so fearful of new experiences that it limits Star and prevents Star from "getting out there" and "living life" Star's way.
Planet, on the other hand, is displaying features totally opposite that of Star. Planet asks Star's opinion on what Planet will major in. Planet's choice in major in no way affects Star, so Star does not need to be involved in the decision-making process. However, Planet unfortunately does not feel this way. Planet is looking to Star to point Planet in the direction Planet "should" go next. When Star does not do this, Planet becomes extremely anxious. Planet feels that without Star, Planet will not be able to move forward.
Planet suffers from low self-confidence and low self-esteem that serve to make Planet believe Planet is inadequate. Planet is not very self-aware because of looking out to Star. Planet has a deep-seated fear that by doing, thinking, believing, or feeling the "wrong" thing Star will end the friendship. Planet does not believe that Star is friends with Planet because of Planet's personality. Planet is convinced Star is only looking at what Planet does, and not at who Planet is.
When Star leaves, Planet is left alone with tormenting thoughts and fears that rapidly send Planet into a panic. Planet greatly exaggerates a very negative outcome for Planet's life if Star never "tells" Planet what Planet "should" do. Planet's under-developed self-awareness skills and low self-confidence team up to create a terrifying future for Planet that Planet feels most definitely will come true without Star's "help."
Sorry if that's a bleak story, but dependence (for able-bodied, functioning adults) on another is a negative way of relating to that person. I kinda look at it as dependence sucks all the power out of the dependent and gives it to the depended upon. The dependent truly does not believe s/he can do much of anything without "guidance" from the depended upon. As demonstrated in the story, it need not be a very callous, domineering individual making another cower in fear.
Pencil, the goal of therapy is never to become dependent upon the therapist. Attachment is about you growing as a person and becoming more and more aware of and sure of yourself. It is about you being able to safely examine aspects of your life that are troubling you and effectively work towards learning how to cope with the emotions that can arise as a result. To become "attached" to a therapist really is a good thing.
I don't wanna go into theory and hypothetical situations, and I am by no means a member of the psychological community. I just know that for me, becoming "attached" to my therapist has led to me trusting him and others in my life a lot more. I've started to allow myself to be vulnerable when I'm with friends and other loved ones so that I can truly share who I am with them (like they do with me!). I'm a heck of a lot happier (weird, I know) and much less anxious when I "let myself go," as frightening as it can be. Pencil, I'm not trying to tell you what to do, I just hope that as you move forward in your life you can grow more into yourself and be happy :)
- Post starter
- #84
Thanks for your response, Fyredrift. I'll have to read it again to respond properly, and that will only be later today. I do, however, need to say that it is the attachment / dependent / intimacy ... whatever that I struggle with. I never need anyone to help me make decisions - in that area I'm independent. My problem seems to be that I am intellectually highly independent, but have never been in a situation where I could trust, depend on, have access to, be close to emotionally with regard to another human being. Emotionally I've always felt isolated, to the point of feeling insulated, and as a result I easily feel overwhelmed by closeness. Aaaarghh, this is such a difficult area for me.
And yes, it was my friend who thinks attachment is the easiest and simplest thing in the world.
More later, I have to shower and get ready for a client.
And yes, it was my friend who thinks attachment is the easiest and simplest thing in the world.
More later, I have to shower and get ready for a client.
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