Attachment Issues

[Pencil]

It is almost certainly why I feel powerless to do anything about those who violate mine, and perhaps why I also can never rid my fear of compromising and crossing someone else's, even when I know rationally that I am not doing so.

Sometimes I'm so neurotic about violating a boundary that I back up so much that I trip over one behind me. And I'm not saying that to try and be funny, I mean it.

Somewhere in my mind is always the fear that those boundaries and the associated rules of engagement will change without my knowledge, and hence that something that was ok yesterday might not be ok today, and that punishment might suddenly come for something which I may in fact have been encouraged to do in the past, such as seeking help, or disclosing painful truths..

And this then brings you right back to attachment. That's how it works for me anyway.

 

[Abstract]

I actually had zero ability to know my boundaries. I don't know how to express that in a way that would represent how complete that was. I think it is impossible for words to do so. The only way I manage to know any of it now is through extraordinary amounts of excruciatingly hard work. It took 7 years of hard work on it in therapy and every day between before I started getting anywhere at all.

Can't quite believe am sharing this here but the worst aspect of that is that I literally don't experience the event. And repeatedly. So someone could be someone threatening and I would be writing about my experiences every day looking for things that made me uncomfortable and would not know that these events happened. Its like my mind deletes them so that I don't have to do anything about it. These "memories" can all of a sudden be "revealed" to me after years when something triggers that to happen. The result is that someone can be abusive or problematic to me over years I regardless of how much energy I am spending trying to stay aware - I will not know. That happens in therapy too.

I spent most of my life doing that without knowing but now that I do it terrifies me. Despite all my growth there are times when I can't defend myself as I don't know I need to. I don't know if it is dissociative or something else but it isn't funny. It even happens with physical stuff.

LOts more I want to say but I have to go to work.

Just wanted to say though MD that I understand a lot of what you said. And when it comes to what you are describing I think they call it a double bind.

It took me the longest time ever to realise that that is what was happening. Right until a few years ago I would still frantically be trying to do it "right" not understanding that there never was going to be a "right". My default mode as a result - very deeply ingrained - is to freeze over entirely. Physically and internally. It also means that anything positive is usually tainted with the expectation of something bad or some sense of impending doom. Including achievement of any type.

Pencil that tripping you describe is something I totally understand.

Interestingly my last term T allowed me to have therapy in her house when her work place moved. I was one of only 2 of her clients to do so. And I suspect one of the main factors is that I perceive others possible boundaries like a potentially life taking electrical fence. I never commented once on a family photo or anything else for fear of her feeling violated.

Pencil, let us know if it feels off topic for you. Hope you are OK.

 

[Pencil]

potentially life taking electrical fence

:roflmao: same here! But that is when you trip over the one behind you: e.g. when you appear to pointedly 'ignore' the photographs

Pencil, let us know if it feels off topic for you. Hope you are OK.

NOt at all, this is very constructive, and the company intelligent, stimulating and generally great. :) An yes, thanks Abstract, I am okay. I also need to do things, and I will get back later to respond to a few of the posts.

 

[JustBe]

I can relate some to this too. But I mostly get all 'foggy' and numbed out when someone cross my boundaries

Exactly!

 

[Hashi]

I just wanted to come back to update and say things are OK now with me and my therapist. The whole thing has been really intense and has opened up a lot of difficult things I'd rather not look at. I'm exhausted. Thanks again to people in this thread for helping me through this.

There's something that has struck me very much about it all, and I wanted to say it here because I think it's relevant to thinking about attachment. I'm a bit wary because I don't want to spark a debate about the value of different types of therapy. I'm only saying there's a type of therapy that suits me, other types of therapy might suit others, and the important thing for each individual is to be in the type of therapy that works for you and moves you forward.

My therapist took responsibility for what had happened between us, and I know that was genuine and not a therapeutic ploy, or even putting aside her own perceptions in order to help me by seeing things from my position. She had been concerned about it, and apologised, and wanted to explain, hear my point of view and validate me for being angry with her. I didn't even agree with her completely, because I think I had some responsibility too. I had misunderstood and not explained how I was starting to feel until it had escalated. She also related it directly to trauma-related responses, and I did agree with that.

Her viewpoint, as I understand it, is that I'm vulnerable because of doing trauma work and trying to deal with the reactions, and can't be expected to respond rationally or articulately to things that are unclear and seem threatening. I'm so relieved and grateful for this. I can see it as another way of looking at it, and I think it's valid. If she had taken the approach of challenging my responses, asking me to re-evaluate them, or seeing them as an issue to deal with in any way, I would have felt that was valid too, but I would have felt flawed, overwhelmed and still worried about our relationship.

Someone else might have responded well to being challenged on their role in what happened - that kind of evaluation, accountability and structure might be exactly what would make them feel safe. Being challenged (gently and in the right way) might also be appropriate for me in some situations, if I was stuck in a pattern of behaviour that I had no awareness of. For me with this, though, compassion and genuine sympathy were what I needed to feel safe again. I was actually able to be open and specific about some of the shame that it had been bringing up.

I'm definitely not saying everyone should have my kind of therapy, which is based around compassion and trust in the client. I'm sure not everyone would want to, or would do well with it. My therapist isn't perfect either, I just don't talk here about various upsets that I have to navigate with her but which are not so fundamentally threatening to me.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think this does go back to the idea of "repair" being important in the therapeutic relationship. So conflicts and tensions aren't actually the end of the world? Really? It does mean things get discussed that wouldn't be touched on otherwise. If everything was going well all the time, there'd be no need to look at dynamics in the therapeutic relationship that are mirroring other dynamics, other experiences and other relationships. Writing that, I think "Ugh, I so don't want to do this, although I know I must". The nicer part of it is that it has brought confirmation and reassurance that we do share the same basic beliefs about healing and that she does trust me. It has been good to have that.

And now she's on holiday and I have to deal with a break! Wah! Talk about attachment issues being tested at the moment...

 

[Hashi]

interestingly and ironically, the lack of boundaries turned out to be MORE LIMITING and RESTRICTIVE, as it made them insecure.

Definitely. I see this all the time in myself and others.

Do you have the TV programme Supernanny (where someone helps parent/s to use a more consistent, reasonable and effective way of managing their children's behaviour)? I watched one episode where the naughty step was successfully introduced for a misbehaving young child, then after a while the parents abandoned it and reverted to their previous chaos. The child started acting out, but was obviously miserable about it and wanted to be given boundaries and have order again - in the middle of all the drama he went and sat himself on the naughty step!

 

[Pencil]

I just wanted to come back to update and say things are OK now with me and my therapist.

I've been waiting and wondering. Glad you're back Hashi!

I'm only saying there's a type of therapy that suits me, other types of therapy might suit others, and the important thing for each individual is to be in the type of therapy that works for you and moves you forward.

Exactly.

 

[Pencil]

Just in case you misunderstand me I truly am not aiming that in any specific direction!

Abstract

No, I don't misunderstand you :)

As always, your post is dense, and this time I want to spend time thinking about it.

Where MD's posts have a contemplative quality, yours are forensic.

(Please tell me if my label annoys or offends you) In any event, you don't know how much I appreciate your input.

 

[Pencil]

Abstract

The issue you raised is complex enough, for me to explain how that works for me is stupefyingly complex. But with your talent for forensics, you might just follow me, and I hope you do want to follow.

My basic difficulty with attachment is that it is based on the attachment I had with my mother (no surprises there!). The nutshell version is this:

My mother didn't like girls very much, while she adored boys (I got to observe this with my nephews and niece). When I was born, she had 3 girls and a boy. Apparently the doctor had to console my mother and brother when I failed to be boy - ah to hear them tell the story is enough to break your heart :rolleyes: After I was born my mother miscarried twin boys, and had a hysterectomy immediately afterwards. She was apparently very ill and was in hospital for nearly 3 weeks. Needless to say, she was devastated. During that time Sick Sister (10 years older) took over. I never found my way back to my mother. My mother basically handed me over to my sister permanently before I was two. Yet, my brother told me I was obsessed with my mother and wouldn't go to anyone else.

My mother also had other problems and issues. When I was 4 - 5 she became obsessed with a boy in the children's home, and wanted to adopt him. For some reason that I never knew, it didn't happen, the boy was actually 'sent away' - or so she was told. At the same time she used to force me to pack a suitcase and wrestle me out of the car in front of the children's home. This happened repeatedly, but only the first two were really frightening, thereafter it became mainly humiliating. The more this happened, the more frantic and obsessed I became with her (this, I believe, is normal).

The result was that I started becoming invisible so as not to set her off. My mother's presence became my source of security. I'm not talking only about her physical presence, but also the mere fact that she existed. There was ZERO interaction, zero physical contact (apart from being beaten, being strangled, etc.) - even zero eye contact, simply ZERO [fill in the blank].

I was SUPER-attached to my mother. It was all superglue, and no content. And it is the content part that I find so difficult.

I'm getting to tired to continue. This is my thread and I can snore if I want to ... :D. I feel I am revealing too much, but on the other hand, it is difficult or impossible to understand without the gory, embarrassing bits. So let me think about all this emotional flashing before I continue. I hope you 'll respond, and not pull another disappearing trick ;)

 

[Pencil]

To continue:

The previous post is a very simplified and sanitized delineation, and so is what follows, to describe my difficulties with attachment:

I have come to realize that when I attach, it is without content. The more I become attached to someone, the less interaction I can handle with that person. This is where I am with the therapist at the moment: I am peacefully attached to her now that I am no longer in therapy. Interaction with her is too hectic, filled with traumatic transference, and so on. She reassures me she is 'there', while I haven't seen her in two months, and never want to see her again, and while I'm not letting go.

It is absurd.

So, Abstract, identify the obstacles :D

 

[Abstract]

Pencil

You are so brave! It made me really sad to read it. :( All I could think of was this little lost girl who was desperate to be loved and cared for and who was surrounded by people not capable of it.

Your brother and mother discussing how disappointed they were you were a girl .... :(:mad:

Your response to it so absolutely normal and understandable. And I am so sorry that this is how it was.

I had a lot of things that I was going to say prior to your last posts which I will still put out there.

I am peacefully attached to her now that I am no longer in therapy

I f it is ok I will give it a go at interpreting this. I think what you have done is created a lot of big boundaries - distance, no contact, no interaction. So within the extreme rigid boundaries you have created you feel safe having a relationship with her.

I understand as in many ways I do this too.

 

[Abstract]

If it is OK Pencil I wondered something. No pressure answering. When you have been in love relationships have you at times felt that the person was not giving you enough reassurance and affection and love?