Redefining Mentally Ill

[Lady of Longbourn]

@shimmerz I was wrong then, I did not misunderstand. You mean mentally ill, my mentally ill. Stigma and the definition. Correct?

And then you are also wrong again. You are misunderstanding a bit in your research. Yes, you are quoting from a government website but that is an abstract from 1996. It's just a research paper and it's not even available online (it's 150 pages long).

Re-read this:

You're barking up the wrong tree and need to research that topic, and you will find culture is the leading cause of issues, not mental health.

I can hear your worry and really I can hear your pain. It hurt too when I had to accept I had bipolar disorder...I am still struggling with that.

It's a good topic. :)

 

[scout86]

I'm going to split this into 2 separate topics for a second.

I read the link. THAT was a truly unfortunate chose of words on the part of those authors and they need to be called to task for it. In fact, I'd like to suggest that everyone here who's up for it send them a letter or an email, or something, if we can figure out their contact info.

Second, on choices of terminology. @shimmerz , I hadn't really thought about it, but when I use "bad guys" in that context, it's a class of people that definitely includes the sorts of people you're talking about. I guess I use it a bit tongue in cheek and it's a bit of a euphemism. I could come up with a longer, more eloquent list of adjectives, but "bad guys" covers it for me. It probably seems like an understatement to others. If the people you're talking about aren't "bad", what are they? They certainly aren't good. And, anyone with a world view that says they are the only one who matters certainly seems to me like they have the potential to "crush souls". Accidentally or on purpose. "Live and let live" only works if all parties abide by both parts of the equation. With the kind of people you're talking about, it won't work because they won't play by those rules. It's pretty obvious that you (sadly) know that.

this thread seems to have spun off into an 'I am afraid to label myself as mentally ill' direction

That's kind of what it was sounding like to me, honest. I see now that that's not it. I'm still not quite sure what you're trying to say.

I have to add this. This past weekend, I had an encounter, of sorts, with a "person" who sexually abused me. I wanted to kill him. I kind of raved on and on about that. I realize now that I was "triggered". But, you know what? If that sorry SOB had touched me, I could have killed him and walked on with never a backwards glance. That's a little scary. What might be scarier is that it doesn't bother me as much as I think it should. All that is a complex topic...... Am I in the group of people you're talking about? I don't know.

I get that there are people in this world that are exceptionally evil. There's a wide range of "evil" or "bad" or what ever you want to call it. Some of those people probably meet the legal definition of "mentally ill". Some of them probably meet the medical definition of "mentally ill". Some of them, probably, don't.

@Ayesha , I just read your post and I'm glad you took the time to check that out. It was an appalling choice of words on the part of the writers!

I agree, this is a good topic. I suspect, in the end, we'll find that we mostly agree, it's just a question of understanding and I think it's worth making the effort to understand.

 

[Go Hungry]

(statement redacted)

I was doing a point by point argument based on your quotes @shimmerz , but that's lame. I read your last post again a few times, and I think I understand what you're getting at. I do think you're kind of barking up the wrong tree there, as what you quoted was an examination of mental illness in relation to the insanity defense, not a statement of government policy. I think you'll find this site more useful though. http://www.nimh.nih.gov/index.shtml I shoulda linked it the first time. :sorry:

Anyways, I still think it's the stigma that's the problem. That's what lumps the mentally ill (whether by genetics, injury, or other causes) into the same basket as criminals and monsters.

 

[shimmerz]

@Ayesha. I feel like you are not hearing me and that is okay.

I found the article (and others) by googling 'mentally ill responsible their actions', so yes there is a legal slant to it. This was the third hit.

As I looked through various links there were other articles that feed the frenzy by linking mental illness to societal mayem. I saw a few as well that alluded to mental illness without an official diagnosis.

I was wrong then, I did not misunderstand. You mean mentally ill, my mentally ill. Stigma and the definition. Correct?

No.

And then you are also wrong again. You are misunderstanding a bit in your research. Yes, you are quoting from a government website but that is an abstract from 1996. It's just a research paper and it's not even available online (it's 150 pages long).

Yes, it is. The paper you are referring to is in book format and for sale on amazon. If you search for the title and author (C. Elliott) his work is all over the internet. If you say I am wrong then I will have to say you are wrong. I will say 'imho'so as not to be disrespectful.

I'm still not quite sure what you're trying to say.

That's because everyone is assuming what I am trying to say regardless of the words I am using. I keep saying it. I will make it easy by bolding and italicizing what I am saying.

Stop linking mental illness with people who are predatory, stalker, homicidal maniacs who wreak havoc on others or put those who are not that way into a different category so that the lines are not blurred. If that link is broken then hey, I am great with being called mentally ill.

@scout86 I am sorry that you were in the position that you were this weekend and I am going to state that even though you felt like killing you did not. I imagine he deserved it. That shows a set of morals and values and great self control.

@Go Hungry I looked at the link you provided and welcome it but it took me to the index. What specifically are you referring to so I may read it.

 

[Go Hungry]

Stop linking mental illness with people who are predatory, stalker, homicidal maniacs who wreak havoc on others or put those who are not that way into a different category so that the lines are not blurred. If that link is broken then hey, I am great with being called mentally ill.

I agree. I would like it if people stopped making that link as well.

@Go Hungry I looked at the link you provided and welcome it but it took me to the index. What specifically are you referring to so I may read it.

Actually I was shooting for the whole index, but here's something nice to consider. Cassey

Just saying that there are efforts out there to combat the stigma of mental illness. Looks like I was dead wrong about the 'good luck getting the funding for that part'. :)

 

[shimmerz]

but then I'm paranoid and anything I say would be automatically suspect. See how it works?

Yes @jocko I most certainly see and feel how it works. You absolutely are making sense and this statement is exactly what I am challenging. Just because you think I am paranoid doesn't mean what I am saying isn't true is the statement I used when they tried to put a paranoia diagnosis on me. My story was too unbelievable they said. They retracted it when streams of friends came in and vouched for me. But they still did nothing.

And this time again, they still aren't.

 

[joeylittle]

I am not certain but I think it was @joeylittle who asked - if I am not mentally ill than what am I? I have been thinking about that since his posting...We are all stuck in this box and there is so much stigma attached to it - so many see us who are broadly labelled as a threat to society and we are not. I am attempting to challenge that. To get others to think outside the box. For myself I identify as a *nearing survivor*. A *fighter*... I am one tenacious son of a gun who won't give up until I conquer my demons.

Yep, it was me - I'm a female, BTW :) - and it's interesting to me, reading your description of the "mentally ill" box. I guess, for my part, I know there can be real stigma attached to it, and that it is a broad label - but it doesn't have to automatically lead to being feared or doubted by society.

I am fine being mentally ill, because it is healthier for me to accept that common terminology and not buy into the stigma, tolerate, and change it where I can. But I was diagnosed with Depression first, and really don't have anyone to blame for my mental illness. Adding in PTSD, well yeah, I wish no one had done that to me - but it was straightforward for me to add those letters to my diagnosis. MDD, GAD, PTSD. Alphabet soup.

I can see that having been attack, and still being under attack, not of your own volition, and knowing who those jerks are - I can see how you would want to title them as the mentally ill, not yourself.

They are sick in the head. Bad people. Wrong. Evil. Criminal. And might be dangerously mentally ill. I'm mentally ill but generally not dangerous.

It was clear from the beginning that you were coming from a place of pain, frustration, anger, and I really get that - I've followed your story. I 100% respect your desire to identify as a surviving fighter.

I got involved in the debate because I have fought hard to live with my mental illness. I fight to live with it every day. My perpetrators are long, long gone. Now, my perpetrator is only my brain: I live with it. You cannot say that all the bad guys are mentally ill and should be rounded up before they hurt somebody and not expect someone born with a mental illness (though not a bad guy) to find that prospect terrifying. We are not even 50 years away from lobotomies as a regular treatment for anything resembling mental imbalance. Women my age and younger were committed to institutions for life simply for being too sad, too sexual, too angry.

Do I wish you had never been hurt? With all my soul - and I mean that.

As passionate as you are about re-defining who is labelled "mentally ill" (specifically), you must be able to flip it round and see: I am equally as passionate about de-stigmatizing the term, so maybe it can be really as meaningless as Cancer.

Lots of different kinds of cancers. Some are wicked bad, killers. Some are manageable. The word itself: not an automatic death sentence.

Mental illness: many different kinds. Some are killers. Some are manageable.

The mentally ill: people. All sorts. Just people. With an illness.

I've used some bold and italics, not to shout or shove it down your throat - I just know I'm being wordy, and so I'm using emphasis for clarity.

Thanks for reading.

 

[shimmerz]

I am equally as passionate about de-stigmatizing the term,

Sorry about the gender mixup @joeylittle. :confused: Silly me. There were two things I wanted to quote from you actually that really resonated with me. The one above which I am suggesting that the solution to such is to separate

dangerously mentally ill

from those of us who are not dangerous to get away from the stigma attached to the term mental illness.

You compared this to cancer and all different kinds of cancer. Ask a cancer patient what kind he has and you can pretty much understand what he is facing. Ask a dangerously (I like this term!) mentally ill person whether he is ill and all hell could break loose. That is what makes these types VERY dangerous. They have no concept.

You cannot say that all the bad guys are mentally ill and should be rounded up before they hurt somebody and not expect someone born with a mental illness (though not a bad guy) to find that prospect terrifying.

Yes, I so get this. I understand the reaction now. I prefer your terminology of dangerously mentally ill much better than 'bad guy' though. Just sayin' :cool: From my experience and in this posting I feel that this term embodies the essence of the person I am attempting to describe and distance myself from.

I am not certain if this helps others to understand my words better but I thank you for having thrown this term out there. It works for me and hopefully will aid with the lingo in this thread. Thank you. :hug:

I really respect all of you for working through the frustration and triggery nature of this thread. It speaks volumes and I appreciate it.

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

You cannot say that all the bad guys are mentally ill and should be rounded up before they hurt somebody and not expect someone born with a mental illness (though not a bad guy) to find that prospect terrifying.

I worry about this too. :( It still terrifies me, lots of things do related to mental illness do.

 

[shimmerz]

((((((((@Ayesha )))))))) I am sorry if I added to your fears. I did not mean to do that at all. Please accept my apologies if I did.

 

[KwanYingirl]

This is a very interesting thread. I would like to add to the mix those of us with organic or traumatic brain injury for which there is little acceptance . This is in addition to acquired CPTSD and genetic MDD. I am a pacifist who has a history of self harm.

 

[shimmerz]

Yes, organic and traumatic brain injury are elements in their own right. CPTSD, MDD and self harming along with organic and traumatic brain injury issues must be so incredibly overwhelming for you. I commend you for all the help you give on this board. Truly, your posts touch me.