Am I being rash to break off a potential relationship before it gets started?

[Neverthesame]

I’ve known a lot of people who were raised by a single parent, or parent & step parent, or even a married stay-at-home-parent nearly never seeing their (usually Dad, in one case, mom) who worked crazy hours, or overseas in order to support them... who as adults get on

Thanks Friday. I couldn't figure out how to phrase this. I'm one of these people.
I also agree there isn't enough information about this guy and his interaction with his child to be able to make an accurate judgement call on.

 

[blackemerald1]

You don’t grow up without a dad (ie in/out of his life) and end up “just fine”. There is some baggage there, somewhere.

^^This is a load of rubbish & a massive generalisation based on nothing but your somewhat stereotypical opinion or a bad experience with an ex. lol But whatever!

It's still quite wrong to tar with the same brush, all men (and women) raised by one parent as dragging around 'baggage'.

Quite legitimate for you to have your opinion, I add, but make sure it's founded in some fact - somewhere please Eve.

^^I have met many well adjusted men from basically single parent families who are fine respectful human beings and no more or less prone to human foibles than any other man (or woman).

^^If you have peer reviewed studies or stats that back up your assertion ... please do Eve :)

You see something you don’t like, so it’s ok to walk away. You don’t have to invest years of your life getting to know someone before it’s “ok” to walk away.

^^Nobody ever suggested investing such long periods of time was ok. That's crazy... :wacky: OP you are a free person... Your question was the rashness of ending something before it's started. Hold off the judgement till you get to know him just a little bit better. A few more dates...possibly?

I'd suggest unless it is blatantly obvious that you are not compatible etc., give the guy a break - 4 dates? I would be barely past the hello stage by 4 dates... not making judgement on their abilities to appropriately discipline children you have yet to meet. :wtf:

 

[EveHarrington]

I could be misunderstanding but understood that he snatched it away and nearly broke it. There wasnt any talk of throwing it purposely or it even dropping, ? Personally I'm a little cautious about guessing what something looks like without witnessing it or knowing more information as I know I am vigilant about intense expressed anger. To me the way the incident is described it could look a lot of different ways. I also dont know the context for the snatching or the nature of the crying of the child.

telling you after only 4 dates could also be a few different things. He is Ok talking about anger. He is aggressive and unable to see that he is and isnt ashamed of it. He ran into the topic without meaning to discuss it.

Not saying you dont have the above info Preciouschild. Just that I dont have it.

Regardless of what or why you need to be comfortable so always go with that,

You miss my point. And you misunderstood.

Others have given him props for not ACTUALLY breaking the phone while I’m saying that not breaking the phone is more likely a stroke of luck and NOT about self control given how violently he snatched the phone away, making the child cry. My example was to illustrate that.

I’m sorry my parallel example wasn’t understood.

 

[PreciousChild]

Thanks for all of your replies. I'm getting a lot of food for thought. I understand why people think it could be rash to consider walking away just after 4 dates, but like Eve said, I'd rather not make any more emotional investment in this man than I have to. I want to reserve my emotional reserves for my son and for someone who I feel I have a future with and who would reciprocate. Even today, this man texted me: "Monday Hell" and wanted me to call saying that I'd make him feel better. I did call him and it was a pretty standard conversation - he didn't have that much to complain or anything, but at the same time, I had work and if he's someone I don't have a future with, I'm not sure that I should start sacrificing time and energy to be his sounding board and support him the way I would normally do for a boyfriend.

To address the breaking the phone thing - he said that his 14 year old son gave him "attitude" that pissed him off so much that he snatched his son's phone and I think he was holding it in front of his son in a way that seemed like he was about to break it in two. He said he was really pissed.

I might accidentally leave out some other points I wanted to address, but here are some points:

If it were me, I'd actually be speaking to this guy about the incident to see how he reacts.

If his reaction is weird (ie him justifying it or saying it's nothing) that would confirm to me that it's spilt off anger.

He brought up this story out of the blue, like he wanted to get it off of his chest. But he later commented that his sons complain about him being "hard on them," but his attitude was that someone had to "teach them." I haven't seen them interact because it's too early to introduce kids into the mix, and I also haven't met his friends and family (online dating). Mind you, my own dad lost his father when he was a toddler. So my dad was always "hard on us" to compensate, he was probably doing was using his anger directed to his dad to brutalize us, especially me. I might be projecting like @Abstract said, but this does worry me.

I wonder if this is potentially mostly projection transferance at this point.

Was it just anger and an isolated incident, or is he condescending or abusive toward anyone or a group of people in mindset more regularly?

How did he deal with that son incident after, in treating that kid and his own reaction?

He is not condescending or abusive to any group of people. Do you think this is a sign of something deeper? I don't know - both my exes were all about social justice and peace, but had split off anger. In terms of his own reaction to his son, I think he felt bad, which is why he brought it up, but at the same time, it seemed like he felt justified.

. I wouldn’t necessarily consider crying kids a screwup, though. Sometimes?

He did say that it was rare for his son to cry.

You’ve jumped from he has a GOOD relationship with his dad, to imagining an entire backstory AND diagnosis to fit the imaginary back story.

I have known all along that this man had an absentee father. I understand that kids can grow up well-adjusted nonetheless. In fact, I'm hoping for exactly that for my son despite the research. And the research is STRONG that kids growing up with an absentee/neglectful dad are scarred. 70% of the prison population all had absentee/neglectful dads. It's only when I also heard him say that he got THAT angry at his own son that I began to wonder if there is in fact a connection between his absent father and his current anger and how deep that anger went.

 

[Friday]

Others have given him props for not ACTUALLY breaking the phone

No... What I said was that there is a difference between being so angry you wanted to break the phone in half, and actually being so angry that you do.

***

Every single parent that I’ve ever know has gotten to the point with their kids where they don’t want to be dealing with the problems that the TV / Phone / Computer are causing, and would rather smash the sucker than deal with one more whining fit about how their kids don’t wanna turn it off to do XYZ, or one more tantrum, or one more... Nope! That’s it! It’s GONE. Gone forever. I’m done.

^^^ That? Snort. Totally normal in Parenting-Land. Because applying limits and rules of behavior is hard. It’s exhausting. And you reach your limit on it not just once, but many times over. And that’s durn near everyone.

What’s rare? Is to actually destroy or sell the device. In a fit of rage or totally calmly. Neither of which happened here.

Kids grounded, or device grounded, on the other hand? Super common. And, no. Kids are NOT happy about their toy being taken away from them for the rest of the day, week, or month because they’ve misused the privilege. They will cry. They will throw themselves to the floor and scream that they hate you. They will slam doors. They will threaten to report you for cruelty (go ahead kiddo, call and say you’ve lost cell phone privileges for the week. Lemme know what they say about that. NOT 911, this is not an emergency and you don’t want to keep someone who needs help from getting help. Call the actual child protection agency if you think I’m actually being abusive instead of just saying mean things to try and hurt me.). They will throw temper tantrums that get them into even more trouble. (Keep it up, and it’s all electronics for the week, not just the phone. // Slam that door one more time and you lose the door. People have doors who can respect them.) They will be convinced that their girlfriend will dump them, they’ll become social pariahs at school, everyone will hate them, and their life is oooooooooover. (Teenagers, right now, in my house. Hormones. So much fun.) Even though, dang kiddo, didn’t Marcus lose his phone last month? Did any of that happen with him? So why do you think.... NVM. Phone is gone for the week. End of discussion. (And then they will get creative and sneak their friends phones at school and set up chats online, and it’s all good. And they think we don’t know, but we do. Ah kids ;)).

In short? They’re being normal kids, pushing boundaries, with normal parents, enforcing them.

***
Any version of the above story? Wouldn’t make me blink. I’ve heard it hundreds and hundreds of times, from as many parents, as we’re dishing about raising kids on the playground, at school waiting to pick them up, at sports practice, at after school activities, at PTA meetings, at birthday parties... it’s just that normal.

So someone says they got so mad they wanted to break the phone in half? That they almost broke the phone in half? Doesn’t phase me.

Because wanting to do something, and actually doing it? Are very different things.

 

[Abstract]

Hi @PreciousChild
Wanted to say I totally support you potentially not doing a relationship as a play it safe act. PTSD and all this is hard enough without extra stuff to deal with and I know I am very cautious these days when I can be. Also thinking of your other assertiveness thread and think if that is a pattern trusting yourself is important.

Personally from this vantage point on the far end of a computer it still doesn't clearly indicate bad news. But I am not privy to non verbal stuff so cant see what you can see. It also doesn't necessarily matter. What matters is that you feel or dont feel OK with the situation. Another thing I personally try to do for myself is try to be accepting of some displays of anger, when they fall in the normal spectrum. I am at risk of never finding any displays of anger acceptable and being very triggered by it. Had to stop myself from expecting that from a relationship. Not saying you do of course. You mention NOT wanting someone out of touch with anger.

The trouble with people describing things is that there are so many nuances. For example one persons being tough on children looks like someone elses chill out approach. Ive seen that at play many times. Peoples subjective perspective on situations or the language they happen to use. Context. Past relationship. How often. Lots of stuff.

Again, support your decision and your right to make it.,

 

[PreciousChild]

Hi @Abstract, you express my struggle in terms of how much am I reading into things based on my own "distorted" lens or how much I am totally right to be alerted. It questions to what extent I am seeing "objective" facts or subjective distortions.

To be honest with you, I'm more aware of red flags than I admitted to in the previous posts. His communication is somewhat spotty. We'll exchange texts and then when you expect him to respond, he'll drop off for days. It's almost as though he's having a reaction on the other side of the phone that I can't see. He is also a little *too* nice sometimes. He also told me that I seem reserved and that I even recoil a little when he tries to hug me hello. I told him I am initially guarded with people, but I warm up (true), but maybe my recoiling has some basis?

@Friday, I appreciate your perspective. It's a topic that I've thought a lot about it, especially as a single parent of 13 years (my son is 15 years old now). How much anger is justified as a reaction to what our child does or is it purely our own cathartic dumping. How much is it really a teachable moment, or do we say that it is because we need a reason to cover up the fact that we lost it yet again. I made a lot of mistakes and have evolved a lot, especially as I have a special needs child. I also have many single parent friends, and have seen them make mistakes and evolve too. My thing is that what we think of as "all too human" anger is maybe based more in the core of anger that we develop out of complex ptsd or even a lesser form of childhood neglect/abuse. I am sure for my part that my previous anger was not justified though at the time I convinced myself that it was totally human to become angry with the frequency and intensity that I did. I've never hit or yelled in an explosive manner. But I could feel the anger boiling inside, and whether I could contain it or whether it became a raised voice, my son could feel the stress, and I was hijacked from being present to those moments. As I healed, I could see that my anger previously was so much mixed in with all the rage and angst based on my complex ptsd. Now after much healing, I get mad at my son 0-2 times a year if that. Sorry if that sounds like I'm rubbing it in, but I truly no longer take anything my son is doing as something against me like I used to. We communicate, compromise, and I pick my battles, and that's that. What does anger add to anything? Btw, my son got his report card back for midterm grades in 10th grade, and he got all A's and 1 B+ and he takes pretty tough subjects. You might think I'm too "easy", but he seems to have all the discipline he needs to get through life. He even does the dishes every night, vacuums the living room on the weekends, and is a helpful, cooperative young teen. He has his moments and attitudes, of course. But I don't see them as a deliberate attempt to disrespect me.

Again, it concerns me to hear a man get hijacked by rage over a perfectly normal 14 year old attitude to the point of almost wanting to break a phone, and then later seeming to "confess" about it to me because clearly it stuck with him. He then justifies it in his mind that he's "being hard on them for their own good." I think being optimistically cautious is good advice, as some of you have said. But is my expectation too high to wish for someone who needn't get angry to the point of wanting to break something?

 

[Friday]

You might think I'm too "easy", but he seems to have all the discipline he needs to get through life.

Nope. Not at all. I was simply correcting my words being twisted to suit someone else’s agenda.

What I said originally still stands. I didn’t come down on one side or the other. For all I know he’s a complete asshole and you’re well rid of him.

 

[ILoveLife]

The most violent person in my life was a complete angel to his kid. all punishements were said in a calm and assertive way - way scarier than a parent losing their temper over electronical's use.

I'm with @Friday's assertion that's regular parenting. Parents get angry, kids are annoying, doesn't mean abuse. Anger doesn't mean abuse, by itself, everyone gets angry. What we do with said anger is the core issue here.

I don't find showing emotions we all have as a red flag, I find the complete opposite actually as the red flag.

 

[PreciousChild]

Thanks for that clarification, @Friday. I'm still confused about whether I'm sensing a real red flag or if I'm projecting.

I think you and @Sietz make a good point that he's talking about what happened, so he clearly isn't avoiding it. He's also talked about them in really fatherly ways.

 

[PreciousChild]

My therapist thinks that I should be watchful of the red flags - the anger, the gaps in communication. But she too thought that him bringing it up and talking about the incident with his child seemed like a good sign.

I'm noticing that I do get this sense of dread sometimes when I'm getting to know someone. I definitely think I feel vulnerable to getting hurt. At the same time, I think I sometimes bypass "healthy" men, seeing them as somehow boring, or not interested in me (even though some have actually told me that they were). I'm trying to be more aware. Thanks for the feedback, everyone!

 

[Abstract]

Gosh it is so hard separating the past, the person in front of us, our own fears and avoidance and all sorts related to these! I always wish I had a crystal ball. I guess some of it we only see when we see it, Totally agree with noting the red flags and even perceived red flags (until you figure out what is what). Ignoring things was my mo before and I wouldnt recommend that, Sounds like you are doing good work and making progress.